any advice - I don't know what to do

Mutleyboo

I’m completely at a loss and heartbroken and have no idea what to do anymore. Sorry in advance as this may be a long post.
I ended up homing a bichon about 5 years ago, it wasn’t the plan but it just happened. The dog was being left on his own all day and was originally got for the kids as a keep the kids happy while the parents were divorcing. I was called to take the dog or they would just get rid, so I did.
When I got all the papers I could see that I was his 5th home and the dog was only 5! There was no way I could rehome this little guy again, he needed love and stability and I would do what I can to provide this. At the time I was living with my parents but they are both dog lovers and didn’t have a problem with taking the dog once I was his main carer. He’s not a ‘normal looking’ bichon, he has a big under bite. His teeth are also quite rotten and a few loose ones. He was very nervy and used to flinch at the slightest sound or movement. I reckon he may have been a puppy farm dog.
A few months after getting Larry (his name), he started going to the toilet in the house despite being let out to go. He wouldn’t bark or scratch to get out, he’d wait until no one was looking then go. As this was going on all the time, the dog couldn’t be left out of site. It would also happen most nights, so nearly every morning I’d be up early to scrub.
I fell pregnant and needed my own house which was near impossible to find that would take a dog. I found a place a few weeks before the baby was due but they wouldn’t take the dog. So the dog stayed with my folks which was fine as he was settled and I was only 5 mins away. Before I left Larry was getting worse, his poop was runny and up the walls every morning, far from ideal! Then one morning I came down to find blood everywhere and poop, it looked like murder scene.
I took him to the vets straight away, it took weeks and cost a lot to find the cause. Turns out he has PLE, his protein levels were only 7% . his long term prognosis was not good. Roll on 2 years and Larry is back living with me (taking him out if the landlord has to come over and hiding everything dog related) His PLE is under control by diet, €150 a month on special food! However saying that he has started to poop again in the house and it’s just because he doesn’t like going out. He has to be forced out to even pee before bed and I have to wait with him until he goes. My partner is at home with him all day and is going mad as Larry cannot be left alone in a room and he’s the one that is cleaning poo up all the time. He’s concerned about the safety of our child as like all kids plays on the ground with his toys.
It’s gotten to the stage where we fight about the dog, it’s the only time we fight. The expense of the food and vets also causes stress as we sometimes go without food just to feed Larry and our son. My partner wants to get rid of him but Larry is part of the family (in my eyes).
I’m completely at loss of what to do, any advice would be great! Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to paint the picture.

VonVix

I'm sorry you're going through this, but well done you for trying to figure out how to help poor little Larry.

What are you feeding him that costs €150 per month? It may sound obvious, but have you tried to source this food elsewhere at a lower cost?

Also, is crate training an option for you for when you cannot supervise Larry?

Mutleyboo

He’s on prescription dog food, a mix of dry and wet. I know the quality of food is not the best but it’s the only thing keeps him consistent. He seems to be only able to handle hydrolysed protein. Anything else causes IBS and fluid in his stomach. If I could change him to cheaper nutritious food it would be great.

I tried crate training at the start when I first got him and he howled the whole night through, I stopped after 4 days as I felt maybe in previous homes he went through something similar. He sleeps in my room as strangely enough he wakes me up to go out during the night. When I was keeping him on the landing he didn't bother, he just went.
It’s mainly when your back is turned, like when you run up the stairs to do something for 2 minutes.

loveisdivine

Could it be some sort of sever seperation anxiety? When he's left alone in a room for even a few minutes he panics and goes?

DBB

loveisdivine wrote: »

Could it be some sort of sever seperation anxiety? When he's left alone in a room for even a few minutes he panics and goes?

That's what it looks like to me, on first glance at least... No doubt complicated by the medical issues.

Mutleyboo

I'd say very possible it is, he was such a nervous little thing when I got him. He also hates going out especially if it's wet 🙄 how can I help him? I'm out of ideas and my other half is out of patience ðŸ™

loveisdivine

Well I am no expert on dogs, or this kind of issue. But everything I have read/heard seems to suggest re-training by leaving the dog alone in the room for even a few seconds to start with, lots of praise etc when you come back and there's no accident and then just gradually increasing the time you leave him for.

I'd imagine you;d need to incorporate some positive reinforcement for toileting outside and obviously keep on top of the medical issues.

Mutleyboo

Thanks for the advice, I'll have to try and get my partner involved during the day which will be tough. It seems that when I'm in the house this never happens but only with my partner.. I make a fuss when he goes outside always have done but I can't give treats or he doesn't play with toys, so just love and praise.

KJ

What about something very simple for treats like plain boiled chicken? Different enough that it might get the dogs interest, but bland enough to not upset his tummy?

Edit - sorry this is loveisdivine from above but posted on my husbands account without realising!

Mutleyboo

I wish I could but the littlest of things gives him the runs especially meat, the protein literally seeps out of him! We can't even feed the birds as he scavengers the bread

DBB

Hi OP,
As loveisdivine alluded to earlier, and now that I've had a bit of time to read your opening post properly , I think your dog's issues revolve around profound and chronic separation anxiety.
Your poor dog has had a very emotionally catastrophic upbringing... 5 homes? It's so potentially damaging to remove a dog from his "secure base" once unless it's done with care, especially if the dog happens to be a shy, nervous type. But for it to have happened to this shy guy 5 times? Poor fella. But well done you for standing by him... all dogs deserve owners with your attitude
Crates are not an immediate option for dogs with separation anxiety if pooping is a major symptom, because chances are he's going to soil the crate (possibly even more so if the confinement scares him).
It is of course possible/probable that his medical issues are compounding the problem, but you may very well find that one is feeding the other.
I am inclined to think that this is a particularly complex case involving the dogs's interactions with you, and his interactions with your OH, and possibly his interactions with your folks.
As a result, I wonder would you consider investing in a session with a good, qualified behaviourist who can sit with you and try to untangle the various factors that are going on here?

Mutleyboo

Thanks for taking the time to reply DBB, I had an idea he had separation anxiety, at one point over the space of two days he had pulled his skin off his back, that was when there was another house move. I'll look at a behaviourist as it seems to be the last option and also it will have to be between me and Larry as if I'm seen to be putting more money into him when it's far from available I won't have an OH much longer!

DBB

Just make sure you do your homework and find a good, qualified behaviourist... There are way too many self-proclaimed behaviourists out there who could do more harm than good. If you give us an idea of what part of the country you're in, someone may be able to suggest a good one!

Mutleyboo

I'm in Dublin North, if there are any recommendations that would be great! Thanks again DBB. I just don't have it in me to rehome him again or worse

DBB

Good for you
You'll find contact details for Karen Kelly in Swords, and Ciara D'Arcy in Raheny here:
http://apdt.ie/index.php/find-a-trainer/dublin/

Both certified, ethical trainers, and really lovely ladies

mistybluehills

Mutleyboo wrote: »

I’m completely at a loss and heartbroken and have no idea what to do anymore. Sorry in advance as this may be a long post.
I ended up homing a bichon about 5 years ago, it wasn’t the plan but it just happened. The dog was being left on his own all day and was originally got for the kids as a keep the kids happy while the parents were divorcing. I was called to take the dog or they would just get rid, so I did.
When I got all the papers I could see that I was his 5th home and the dog was only 5! There was no way I could rehome this little guy again, he needed love and stability and I would do what I can to provide this. At the time I was living with my parents but they are both dog lovers and didn’t have a problem with taking the dog once I was his main carer. He’s not a ‘normal looking’ bichon, he has a big under bite. His teeth are also quite rotten and a few loose ones. He was very nervy and used to flinch at the slightest sound or movement. I reckon he may have been a puppy farm dog.
A few months after getting Larry (his name), he started going to the toilet in the house despite being let out to go. He wouldn’t bark or scratch to get out, he’d wait until no one was looking then go. As this was going on all the time, the dog couldn’t be left out of site. It would also happen most nights, so nearly every morning I’d be up early to scrub.
I fell pregnant and needed my own house which was near impossible to find that would take a dog. I found a place a few weeks before the baby was due but they wouldn’t take the dog. So the dog stayed with my folks which was fine as he was settled and I was only 5 mins away. Before I left Larry was getting worse, his poop was runny and up the walls every morning, far from ideal! Then one morning I came down to find blood everywhere and poop, it looked like murder scene.
I took him to the vets straight away, it took weeks and cost a lot to find the cause. Turns out he has PLE, his protein levels were only 7% . his long term prognosis was not good. Roll on 2 years and Larry is back living with me (taking him out if the landlord has to come over and hiding everything dog related) His PLE is under control by diet, €150 a month on special food! However saying that he has started to poop again in the house and it’s just because he doesn’t like going out. He has to be forced out to even pee before bed and I have to wait with him until he goes. My partner is at home with him all day and is going mad as Larry cannot be left alone in a room and he’s the one that is cleaning poo up all the time. He’s concerned about the safety of our child as like all kids plays on the ground with his toys.
It’s gotten to the stage where we fight about the dog, it’s the only time we fight. The expense of the food and vets also causes stress as we sometimes go without food just to feed Larry and our son. My partner wants to get rid of him but Larry is part of the family (in my eyes).
I’m completely at loss of what to do, any advice would be great! Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to paint the picture.

To be honest, do you think this little lad is suffering?
What does your vetbthink, regarding the prognosis-and the dog's quality of life going forward.
People are good to advise, but I think you will also have to ask yourself what's fair for the dog, and what's fair for your partner and child.

coathanger

Mutleyboo wrote: »

I'm in Dublin North, if there are any recommendations that would be great! Thanks again DBB. I just don't have it in me to rehome him again or worse

Fair play for sticking with poor Larry, he's had a very rough deal so I'm delighted to hear you are going to speak with a behaviourist. I fully recommend calling Emmeline of Canine Ireland, I found her help invaluable with my 3 rescue dogs all with their own issues. She was a godsend to us. One of whom was a puppy farm bichon with skin issues & separtion anxiety & general nervousness but she has come on in leaps & bounds but it did take time, patience & a lot of love . Best of luck. Don't forget to as a pic

Mutleyboo

@mistybluehills, this was part of the issue, my OH and his problem with Larry. It was actually my OH who was with me when we took Larry and said we have to keep him. At this point in time no major issues were known. In my eyes it's like a child who wants a puppy and down the line realises the work involved and looses interest.
He's not a visibly nervous dog anymore and loves my OH. Best buddy's with my DS.
Long term prognosis is that the PLE could be triggered again bad and if he's suffering I know what I need to do. For now and the past year or so he's in no pain and enjoying cuddles and life.
I don't know about the anxiety but if I can help, I will try my best.

mistybluehills

Mutleyboo wrote: »

@mistybluehills, this was part of the issue, my OH and his problem with Larry. It was actually my OH who was with me when we took Larry and said we have to keep him. At this point in time no major issues were known. In my eyes it's like a child who wants a puppy and down the line realises the work involved and looses interest.
He's not a visibly nervous dog anymore and loves my OH. Best buddy's with my DS.
Long term prognosis is that the PLE could be triggered again bad and if he's suffering I know what I need to do. For now and the past year or so he's in no pain and enjoying cuddles and life.
I don't know about the anxiety but if I can help, I will try my best.

That's good to hear
I often see people give advice on everything but forget to ask themselves what's best for the dog and not the owner.
You sound like a thoughtful owner, so best of luck and hope all works out