Excavator & Shear Grab thoughts

noelmartin1

I seen some guys use excavators for stacking and handling round bales of silage.  One farmer i know uses an excavator on the silage pit when it's being cut.  We have a tight yard and we are switching back to silage pit (from round bales).  We were considering a wheeled excavator and putting a Shear Grab on it.  BUT I can't seem to get any thought or opinions on it anywhere on the internet.  Does anyone  know if anyone has tried this ? If so any recommendations.....?

pedigree 6

noelmartin1 wrote: »

I seen some guys use excavators for stacking and handling round bales of silage.  One farmer i know uses an excavator on the silage pit when it's being cut.  We have a tight yard and we are switching back to silage pit (from round bales).  We were considering a wheeled excavator and putting a Shear Grab on it.  BUT I can't seem to get any thought or opinions on it anywhere on the internet.  Does anyone  know if anyone has tried this ? If so any recommendations.....?

Surely a tracked excavator would be better and safer at building and rolling a pit than a wheeled excavator?

Or will you be building and rolling the pit yourself?

noelmartin1

Sorry, having re-read my post it was a bit vague.  The idea behind using an excavator is we would have frequent odd jobs for farm maintenance and farm yard development.  We wouldn't be doing anything with the putting-in-the-silage.  The wheeled-excavator is for putting out the silage in the winter.  The pit sits very close to a 6 bay open fronted slatted shed.  Using the tractor and front loader is savage hardship on the tractor with all the twisting, turning and gear changes.
The idea behind 'wheeled' is the running on the concrete during the winter.  Also, it can be ran on the road also, if needed.
I've also seen a lot of "stacking" on youtube etc but can't get any info on fitting a shear grab and using to put our the silage in the winter

Mooooo

Is it possible to rejig the silage pit access? The money spent buying another machine may be better spent on that perhaps? Or else perhaps an artic steer loader may be more manoeuvrable than the tractor as an option. Our pit is tight enough to a wall bit we kinda go in at an angle until we can straighten out using a jcb 412. It would be more awkward with a tractor loader.
If ye can maybe have a look around other yards etc. I'd assume once there are brackets made up for it a grab could be fitted to an excavator alright but for the investment perhaps check all options. I'd imagine a wheeled excavated wouldn't be so great in the fields their area is more around sites with solid ground I'd say

noelmartin1

Thanks Moooo,  We have been thinking about a solution for this for a while.  A skid steer was the initial idea. We looked at the Bobcat and a new holland.  They were both 10-12 years old but in good nick.  We came across a few issues:
(1) the Bobcat in particular appears to give mechanical trouble as they get older - they are difficult to fix even replacing a simple pipe. 
(2) the height of the pit would hinder the effectiveness of a skid steer with a shear grab
(3) the skid steer is limited to the amount of tasks that it is useful at (after the winter silage feeding) compared to e.g. JCB
The skid steers aren't cheap for what you get and for a couple of thou more you can get a decent excavator 8-12 ton (albeit a few years older e.g. 2003-2005 13,000-16,000).  An excavator seemed to be the obvious solution, after the skid steer.  It would also be immensely useful tipping around doing jobs.  The only obstacle is: nobody appears to have used an excavator to do this kind of work or they have and it was unsuccessful.

Mooooo

noelmartin1 wrote: »

Thanks Moooo,  We have been thinking about a solution for this for a while.  A skid steer was the initial idea. We looked at the Bobcat and a new holland.  They were both 10-12 years old but in good nick.  We came across a few issues:
(1) the Bobcat in particular appears to give mechanical trouble as they get older - they are difficult to fix even replacing a simple pipe. 
(2) the height of the pit would hinder the effectiveness of a skid steer with a shear grab
(3) the skid steer is limited to the amount of tasks that it is useful at (after the winter silage feeding) compared to e.g. JCB
The skid steers aren't cheap for what you get and for a couple of thou more you can get a decent excavator 8-12 ton (albeit a few years older e.g. 2003-2005 13,000-16,000).  An excavator seemed to be the obvious solution, after the skid steer.  It would also be immensely useful tipping around doing jobs.  The only obstacle is: nobody appears to have used an excavator to do this kind of work or they have and it was unsuccessful.

Have ye checked an articulated steer, would that get you in and out of the pit. Could hire one out for a bit so how it goes. Our pit face starting out may only be 12 feet from a slurry tank wall and we manage with the 412. Pit is alongside the sheds. A machine like that would be relatively dear alright though, ours is 1986 and going well. neighbour payed circa 20k to get a 00 model 2 years ago I think. Very comfortable tho. Maybe be other models/makes out there as well.
Haven't heard of an excavator at it, perhaps ask a local drainage contractor if he'd see any issues or anyone local that would operate them for a living, you'd assume they'd manage a grab fine. Height coming into a shed may be an issue

Who2

If you've a canopy on your she'd I'd say it will be the first thing to go with the jib. The other thing is how useful is a wheeled excavator really around a farm? I can't see twelve ton travelling around a field on their tyres the other thing is you've a serious stretch out on an excavator to leave a grab down low and out straight so I'd be thinking it's a non runner. You'd be a million times better off with a farm handler.

dunlopwellies

I would say it will work a shear grab no bother although maybe not a big one. Just would be a matter of mounting it correctly similar bracketed to pallet forks for a digger I suppose.
The boom height would defiantly be an issue I would say but depends where you would be feeding.
Are the wheeled machine even that manouverable around a yard?

I would be inclined to go for an article stear too I'd say as a rubber duck would be helpless enough off road and similarly a track machine would be severe concrete.

Would a diet feeder be any good I wonder?

Grueller

Something small and very maneuverable like a jcb 524 50? Will go almost anywhere a skid steer will and the height is not an issue.

larthehar

Wheeled 360 digger wouldn't make it inside the gate of a field.. know a lad bought one sold it after a month.. couldn't travel with it..
A mini telescopic loader? Or if the yard was all concrete i seen a lad using a forklift with sheargrab fitted.. was very impressed with it around the yard tbh!

mycro2013

Hire an excavator out for a week and see how you get on. It may not suit after. Also have you considered a rough terrain forklift may be an option.

larthehar

mycro2013 wrote: »

Hire an excavator out for a week and see how you get on. It may not suit after. Also have you considered a rough terrain forklift may be an option.

https://www.donedeal.ie/plantmachinery-for-sale/sanderson-rough-terrain-forklift/8939216

Something like this..

freedominacup

Grueller wrote: »

Something small and very maneuverable like a jcb 524 50? Will go almost anywhere a skid steer will and the height is not an issue.

Op smacks of trying to reinvent the wheel tbh. Small teleporter for a tight yard all the way. I don't know why any livestock farmer buys a second tractor before they buy a purpose built loader of whatever type is most suitable to them. Output is so much higher. They're a big bite on day one but generally have a long lifespan on a farm.

cj maxx

As posted above , , hire one out for a week, see how it works . One with rubber tracks shouldn't be too hard on the yard and you can always put rubber blocks on a steel track. It be fierce handy for odd jobs , fencing , drainage elc

Muckit

A rubber duck only any good for the bath

mythos110

OP: I assume by excavator you mean the likes of a JCB 3CX, am I right? The idea of a 360 wheel excavator (rubber duck) is nonsense for a farm application.

I have a 13t track machine at home and it wouldn't make it into most sheds without the arm fully crowded in. Not a hope of putting a grab on it and it remaining useful.

A 3cx type digger with a front grab/silage fork and the use of the digging arm on the back might work well but it won't be great for climbing the clamp due to the small front wheels

noelmartin1

Thanks for all the input.  Larthehar, what was the problem that the guy that bought the wheeled 360 had in the fields?  I ask coz the local that does the excavator work for us (the little that we have had to do down through the years) was a wheeled machine and I can't recall too many problems. 
I fear that the excavator idea is not a good one.  The idea was to get a cost effective way to put out the silage and get some additional use from the machine - an excavator would do loads of add jobs e.g. fencing, maintenance, drainage...etc.  The roof issue wouldn't be a major problem.  There is over 20 foot clearance.  But i take on board the feedback and am very appreciative.  I like the Forklift idea, for around 5-8K it appears that a 12-15 year old can be picked up.  Which is a reasonable amount to spend on a machine that will only be able to do 1 task.  But how good would it be at high-pit levels taking out silage?
The telehandler seems to win the discussion.  But they are a significant investment upfront - 15K for anything in reasonable nick.  For us, that's a lot for another loader (have 2 on tractors already).  I've read that even the bigger telehandlers are very versatile with the 4 wheel steer.  So I take it that size doesn't matter (really!).  Or has anyone any thoughts on that - is there an optimal size for a farmyard?  Is there anything that one should consider i.e. must-have/avoid when sourcing one?   
mythos110, what is the 3CX like in tight spaces?

mythos110

noelmartin1 wrote: »

Thanks for all the input. Larthehar, what was the problem that the guy that bought the wheeled 360 had in the fields? I ask coz the local that does the excavator work for us (the little that we have had to do down through the years) was a wheeled machine and I can't recall too many problems.
I fear that the excavator idea is not a good one. The idea was to get a cost effective way to put out the silage and get some additional use from the machine - an excavator would do loads of add jobs e.g. fencing, maintenance, drainage...etc. The roof issue wouldn't be a major problem. There is over 20 foot clearance. But i take on board the feedback and am very appreciative. I like the Forklift idea, for around 5-8K it appears that a 12-15 year old can be picked up. Which is a reasonable amount to spend on a machine that will only be able to do 1 task. But how good would it be at high-pit levels taking out silage?
The telehandler seems to win the discussion. But they are a significant investment upfront - 15K for anything in reasonable nick. For us, that's a lot for another loader (have 2 on tractors already). I've read that even the bigger telehandlers are very versatile with the 4 wheel steer. So I take it that size doesn't matter (really!). Or has anyone any thoughts on that - is there an optimal size for a farmyard? Is there anything that one should consider i.e. must-have/avoid when sourcing one?
mythos110, what is the 3CX like in tight spaces?

I don't have one myself so don't really know. Probably a little better than a tractor as with the small wheels it should have a good steering lock. That being said the outriggers are out fairly wide at the back. I'm sure someone that is using one will let you know!

I'm in the position of having a tractor with a shear grab for feeding, a JS130 tracked excavator for drainage/etc and a wheeled loader for making the silage pit (its a bit too wide to put a grab on @ 9'6 on the wheels)
I use the tractor for feeding as I have a silage pusher on the back (rotating tractor tyre type) which makes quick work of putting in the silage and removes the need for manual handling (forking/piking/spronging etc.etc....)

larthehar

Land was heavy and he spent more time digging himself outta holes than doing any digging.
I have a fermec 860, boom is very high on diggers for sheds but i use it for cleaning out and a meal bucket.. have to remember to let it down though!! have a mf 50 digger too in outfarm.. turn it on a penny..
Mast with shear grab on the back of a two wheel drive tractor? Then you have another tractor...

mycro2013

Left of field option. If you can find an mft loader tractor. May kill two birds with one stone.

If you're still toying with the idea of an excavator consider an 8 ton excavator with rubber blocks on tracks as steel can be severe on concrete.

Nekarsulm

You mentioned in your second post, that you won't have anything to do with putting the silage into the pit, only feeding out.
Would you not look for a Massey 50b, if you want to save your tractor.
Two wheel drive models are available for little more than the price of a decent tractor loader.
If you have road work, is driving to an out farm, get a clutch one. Otherwise the torque convertor is the number 1 option.
This lad has a torque one, he is talking through his hat about the rear lift arms though.
https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/massey-industrial-loader/14306317
Smallish money..
https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/mf-massey-50-loader/14164582
This lad thinks his International is a Massey!
https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/massey-ferguson-50b-loader/13820046

Or a step up to 4wd and el.shuttle.
https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/massey-ferguson-50hx/14384705

L1985

Just to add in our experience. We have a tight yard as well we use bales not a pit but manoeuvring can be v tough with the tractor and you end up driving on silage. So we just got a bobcat skidsteer his week. Honestly I'm thrilled with it, manoeuvres so easily-you can do a 360in the same spot pretty much. So handy for cleaning out sheds and moving things around the yard . It can left a silage bale off a stack three high. I think it's one of the best investments we have done so far although obviously it's early days. Our mechanic said they are v good not much goes wrong with them but can't really comment on mechanical issues yet . Hope that helps

Muckit

Nobody mentioned the 2cx. Don't have one but with front and back steering axles and crab steer they have to be a contender?

Hagimalone

2cx is a tidy machine! Would be my preference

bogman_bass

noelmartin1 wrote: »

.  The only obstacle is: nobody appears to have used an excavator to do this kind of work or they have and it was unsuccessful.

There is probably a reason for that.

To be honest is sounds like you are looking for the solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
You have two tractors with loaders but you want to save them. They are a tool to be worked not family heirlooms.

noelmartin1

Thanks to everyone for the input.  Much to think about.
bogman_bass has a fair point, if you don't know the circumstances, so I'll clarify.  Currently we feed bales and are changing to pit this year.  The first pit is currently half empty (so space has been created) and this morning I counted that it takes a minimum of 14 back/forward gear changes up to 24 - per bale.  Multiply that by 550 bales each year.  At the end of each winter the tractor needs a major Breaks overhaul, Steering maintenance has been high for the last few years.  Also tyre erosion is massive.
The tractor is a mid 90's 309 Fendt 4x4 with a factory fitted Loader.  If anyone is familiar with these you'll know that the loader has far too long of a reach which makes the footprint very big.  Additionally the lock on these 4 wheel drives are very poor.   Because of this and the tight space between the face of the pit and open-faced shed there isn't enough space to allow a counter weight to be attached to the 3-point-linkage. Hence, the massive tyre erosion.  The tractor otherwise is a dream to have for field work.  The annual maintenance on these old fendt's is colossal (even for the smallest thing).  85-95% of our costs are from the loader "hacking" work.  Thus, the plan was to get a cost effective, purpose machine.
larthehar, mycro and Nekarslum mentioned an MF 50 (and thanks).  I was encouraged by the comment that it has a good lock so I hope to test drive one next week.  The jury is out on the rough-terrain forklift. Although I liked the idea.  The pit will be high so I'm unsure how effective it would be at height. 
Similarly, we looked at a S250 Bobcat which we thought might struggle with the pit and its height with a heavy shear grab. The guy we spoke to about the Bobcat said that when anything goes wrong with it he just calls the mechanic as it is a maze of pipes in very tight spaces.   L1985 (thank you) which Bobcat have you got?
The excavator  idea arose because I drove a 5Tonner in Aussie many many moons ago so am familiar with how useful it is.  Also we have several thousands € of digging and maintenance work to do on the farm over the next 18 months.  Hence, if the general response to my question (about how effective an excavator is at putting out silage with a shear grab)  was "positive", i could see it being a great addition to the farm.  However, I'm inclined to drop the idea after the above responses.  
Thanks to you all for commenting - I appreciate you taking the time.

larthehar

Is that 14 F/R movements to get from facing the stack to facing the feed barrier?!
If so you need the bobcat or forklift that can do a 180 on the spot..

L1985

We got an new holland ls160. Can't get over how well she manoeuvres can do a 360with ease (to my niece and nephews delight). She is slightly light for a full bale of silage but she can take it as long as you go low and watch the ground. Really is v good in the tight spots thou-not wasting nearly as much silage having to drive over it!!

noelmartin1

Not exactly, it the full round trip/bale - regardless its a hell or a lot and the tractor doesn't need it.
Thanks for the suggestion