Demolish internal wall

siulas

Hi,

I live in apartment and am looking to demolish one wall, is there some sort of legal side I need to worry? Do I need to do a survey? Or if it is non-load bearing wall, can I just get rid of it?

Thanks
siulas

Gumbo

siulas wrote: »

Hi,

I live in apartment and am looking to demolish one wall, is there some sort of legal side I need to worry? Do I need to do a survey? Or if it is non-load bearing wall, can I just get rid of it?

Thanks
siulas

Management company.
Structural.
Fire Safety.

Yes there's a lot to consider here. We done it for a client in Dublin city but it was replacement with glass block. You may not be able to remove it completely due to the Fire Safety Cert on the building.

siulas

I'm basically planning to merge 2 bathrooms into one, and I'm nearly certain that it is non-load bearing wall.
Are you saying that either way I need structural survey? What's in regards to Fire safety? Is that another expense for me?

Gumbo

siulas wrote: »

I'm basically planning to merge 2 bathrooms into one, and I'm nearly certain that it is non-load bearing wall.
Are you saying that either way I need structural survey? What's in regards to Fire safety? Is that another expense for me?

Tap to the management company. They will dictate what they want from you as assurance that the works will have no impact on the building as a whole. You will. We'd to engage an engineer or architect to do this.

We as consulting engineers had to issue this letter to the mc before works could commence on said apartment.

Call an engineer.
Get them to draw a plan of the proposal.
Get them to word a letter stating that the Fire cert will not be accepted. (Assuming it won't) and that the works are of a non structural nature.
Submit to the MC for approval.

Spanish Eyes

I know this is not helping your enquiry at all....

But I would keep the bathrooms separate. I'm guessing one is en suite and the other is a so called "family bathroom" more or less side by side.

Fine if you feel you are going to stay there forever and a day, but another purchaser might just love the fact that they could rent a room and keep their ensuite.

Just a thought. But I don't know why you want to do this either!

siulas

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I know this is not helping your enquiry at all....

But I would keep the bathrooms separate. I'm guessing one is en suite and the other is a so called "family bathroom" more or less side by side.

Fine if you feel you are going to stay there forever and a day, but another purchaser might just love the fact that they could rent a room and keep their ensuite.

Just a thought. But I don't know why you want to do this either!

Well, they both are very small, I think I would prefer to have one proper bathroom

Do you think having one bathroom would decrease apartment value in long term?

siulas

kceire wrote: »

Tap to the management company. They will dictate what they want from you as assurance that the works will have no impact on the building as a whole. You will. We'd to engage an engineer or architect to do this.

We as consulting engineers had to issue this letter to the mc before works could commence on said apartment.

Call an engineer.
Get them to draw a plan of the proposal.
Get them to word a letter stating that the Fire cert will not be accepted. (Assuming it won't) and that the works are of a non structural nature.
Submit to the MC for approval.

Thanks, management company are trying to find an engineer for me to do a survey, but I assume I probably could find my own?
How much this sort of work cost?

Spanish Eyes

siulas wrote: »

Well, they both are very small, I think I would prefer to have one proper bathroom

Do you think having one bathroom would decrease apartment value in long term?

Is it one or two beds apt?

If it is two bedrooms and you might sell on, I would definitely keep them separate.

A new owner could rent out one room under the Rent a Room scheme and still keep their privacy with the en suite.

Think long and hard about this. But ultimately do what is best for YOU.

siulas

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Is it one or two beds apt?

If it is two bedrooms and you might sell on, I would definitely keep them separate.

A new owner could rent out one room under the Rent a Room scheme and still keep their privacy with the en suite.

Think long and hard about this. But ultimately do what is best for YOU.

Yeah, it is 2 bed apartment..
Well, I just moved in, I probably should not be rushing this..

listermint

it will decrease the price yes. So no i would not do it personally.


Diminishes rental return too.


So... no.

Spanish Eyes

siulas wrote: »

Yeah, it is 2 bed apartment..
Well, I just moved in, I probably should not be rushing this..

Sit on it for a while and then decide. But I think it's a bad move personally.

You could also rent out the other room too tax free and keep your own en suite.

Don't rush into it. Keep them separate is what I would do anyway. And tbh if all other two beds in the complex have an ensuite, why would anyone buy yours without one?

siulas

Just got a quote for survey, €400 + VAT.
Is that standard price for this kind of work? Seems a bit steep to me..

Gumbo

siulas wrote: »

Just got a quote for survey, €400 + VAT.
Is that standard price for this kind of work? Seems a bit steep to me..

A bit steep????? I doubt you'll get it any cheaper!
What exactly are you getting done?

I presume he will inspect the wall, ensure that it's not load bearing and issue a letter to the MC to say that you can do this without affecting the buildings structure.

It's very very cheap. Let me tell you, we charged more than that but we did provide drawings, supervise the works and sourced the glass block that maintained the fire rating where required.

Ronney

Give the wall a knock, if its hollow/plasterboard its not load bearing.

If you do it, make sure thing are left so you can easily transform it back when selling. Eg pipes left capped in the vicinity of where they were located

siulas

kceire wrote: »

A bit steep????? I doubt you'll get it any cheaper!
What exactly are you getting done?

I presume he will inspect the wall, ensure that it's not load bearing and issue a letter to the MC to say that you can do this without affecting the buildings structure.

It's very very cheap. Let me tell you, we charged more than that but we did provide drawings, supervise the works and sourced the glass block that maintained the fire rating where required.

I'm nearly certain it is non-load bearing wall..
I might be wrong but from my perspective, all he has to do is just come over, check if wall is non-load bearing, send email to MC and get €400 :D
Is there anything more to do? Am I missing something?..

Gumbo

Ronney wrote: »

Give the wall a knock, if its hollow/plasterboard its not load bearing.

If you do it, make sure thing are left so you can easily transform it back when selling. Eg pipes left capped in the vicinity of where they were located

If the OP does this in an apartment block without proper guidance she could be sued by the MC.

Also, plasterboard can be dabbed onto block work and quite regularly is, my own house for example.

Gumbo

siulas wrote: »

I'm nearly certain it is non-load bearing wall..
I might be wrong but from my perspective, all he has to do is just come over, check if wall is non-load bearing, send email to MC and get €400 :D
Is there anything more to do? Am I missing something?..

Probably not a lot more but he is putting his PI insurance and name on the line to allow you to do this. If you think it's steep, get more quotes.

Wait till you see the prices to fit out the new bathroom as it will be labour intensive without access to skips etc in the garden, so every bit of waste has to be bagged and hand carried down to a skip at street level.

Earthhorse

Hey OP. We are obviously leading parallel lives! First the Lucht heaters, now this!

My job is a bit different in that I am just looking to knock a wall to half its height around my kitchen counter (so it is not a dividing wall).

As kceire says in his post above me I think you should get builders out to quote first as they will have different ideas and insights and you may end up not going ahead based on what they say rather than throw €400 at an engineer right away. I assume you consulted an engineer before buying the apartment so maybe they would do it for a better price than that if you sent more business their way?

With regard to value of the property I don't think anyone can say how an en-suite vs a bigger bathroom will affect the value without knowing the details or seeing the before and after. I doubt it will affect it much one way or the other unless one of them is a complete disaster but again the important thing is to do what you want as I assume you're going to be living there for a while.

BryanF

siulas wrote: »

Am I missing something?..

A fire cert

Or at least an opinion on the fire cert.

Dudda

It's a lot of work. Removing the wall, removing floor and wall tiles, removing one door and blocking up, making good to bedroom side of door and new skirting, relocating plumbing, possible fire proofing to service duct which are always in or beside bathrooms in apartment buildings, relocating electrics and removing the switch from the blocked door, new ceiling which will need to be plastered and painted, new floor tiles and possibly a levelling screed if the two floors aren't perfectly level after removing the wall, making good the walls where the wall was removed, new wall tiles, new sanitary unless you try and reuse the original which will mean having to be more careful in removing it so it's not damaged, probably a new shower tray or bath as you'll have room for a larger one instead of the two small ones you currently have, reconnecting and refitting all sanitary, painting and all the work involved carrying by hand the materials in and waste out as it's an apartment.

You know this is going to cost you thousands?

siulas

Dudda wrote: »

It's a lot of work. Removing the wall, removing floor and wall tiles, removing one door and blocking up, making good to bedroom side of door and new skirting, relocating plumbing, possible fire proofing to service duct which are always in or beside bathrooms in apartment buildings, relocating electrics and removing the switch from the blocked door, new ceiling which will need to be plastered and painted, new floor tiles and possibly a levelling screed if the two floors aren't perfectly level after removing the wall, making good the walls where the wall was removed, new wall tiles, new sanitary unless you try and reuse the original which will mean having to be more careful in removing it so it's not damaged, probably a new shower tray or bath as you'll have room for a larger one instead of the two small ones you currently have, reconnecting and refitting all sanitary, painting and all the work involved carrying by hand the materials in and waste out as it's an apartment.

You know this is going to cost you thousands?

Sorry, but that wasn't a question, I know about costs involved in work.
What I was wondering is, what do I need to do, before I can start working.
Which seems to be only engineer survey so far..

seamus

Yes, removing a bathroom will reduce the value of your property.

Not even just from a "what if I want to rent it out" perspective, but simple practicality.

You will need to get a copy of the original plans for the building and have them reviewed by an engineer to confirm that this actually can be done at all. The engineer won't be able to tell through a simple survey, he will need to know what's above and below that wall to see if it's just a simple partition or if it's structurally important.

The management company (or more correctly their insurer) may insist on a second independent survey by an engineer or an architect to confirm the safety of removing this wall.

You're looking at probably €1,500 in surveys, drawings and reports. And that's assuming you can just remove the wall without doing anything else. If new supports need to be placed in its stead, then you can probably double that figure to have the new plans drawn up and confirmed. And the management company might just tell you to go away after all that.

What might be the best idea for you is to leave the wall up but put an internal sliding door into it. When door(s) are fully open, they're hidden behind the partition and so it feels like you have a large bathroom. But you can also close them to create two bathrooms if you have guests over. Something like this but with a double-door. This means that you likely wouldn't need any kind of sign-off from anyone as you're not pulling down the partition. And it maintains the value of your property.

Gumbo

siulas wrote: »

Sorry, but that wasn't a question, I know about costs involved in work.
What I was wondering is, what do I need to do, before I can start working.
Which seems to be only engineer survey so far..

The Engineer carries out an appraisal of the proposed works.
He confirms to the Management Company that it will have no effect on the buildings structure or any of its Statutory Permissions such as Planning and its Fire Safety Certificate.

You need Management Company permission to do this.
You need to engage a Chartered/Registered Engineer for these works.