Downstairs radiators not heating

km79

Just in time for the cold weather

Heating was on at 4 yday all fine. Although I thought I detected a faint knocking noise in boiler/pipework bear boiler

Yday evening downstairs rads didn't heat up.
Leg of first leg was lukewarm . Switched off heating . Bled radiator . No air came out. Switched heating back on .
All worked again

This morning all worked . Now again downstairs all off. Blew all rads. Turned off upstairs thermostat. Still nothing . Can still hear a faint occasional knock.

Not sure if relevant but both valves on nearest rad were changed about 6 weeks ago

Anything else I can check or should i just ring a plumber

subpar

Most probably an airlock or possibly a lack of water in the circuit.

First try for the airlock . Turn off the boiler and pump . Close the inlet valve to all of the rads ( upstairs and downstairs). Let the system cool down for an hour then turn back on the pump and boiler. Then open the inlet valve to one radiator at a time starting downstairs and then moving to the upstairs. As you turn on each of the rads , make sure to open the vent on each rid to get rid of any airlocks. When you have vented all the rads ,set the inlet valve to all of the upstairs rads to approx 50% open position this will help the pressure flow to the downstate circuit. Let the system run and monitor it.

If the above fails , try to find the cold water feed valve into the central heating piping circuit , open the valve for a few minutes to top up the system ( normally this valve would be located in your hot press / cylinder press.

Good luck

km79

subpar wrote: »

Most probably an airlock or possibly a lack of water in the circuit.

First try for the airlock . Turn off the boiler and pump . Close the inlet valve to all of the rads ( upstairs and downstairs). Let the system cool down for an hour then turn back on the pump and boiler. Then open the inlet valve to one radiator at a time starting downstairs and then moving to the upstairs. As you turn on each of the rads , make sure to open the vent on each rid to get rid of any airlocks. When you have vented all the rads ,set the inlet valve to all of the upstairs rads to approx 50% open position this will help the pressure flow to the downstate circuit.

If the above fails , try to find the clod water feed valve into the central heating piping circuit , open the valve for a few minutes to top up the system ( normally this valve would be located in your hot press / cylinder press.

Good luck

Pressure at moment is steady around the 1.5 bar mark
It's a sealed pressurized system
The red top up tap located on pipe beside oil Burner is very stiff and I'm afraid to force it !


Leg of first downstairs rad is now lukewarm
That's it downstairs

km79

Turned off CH
Closed all upstairs rads
Turned on after an hour and bottom ones are now heating
Should I open upstairs ones again in a while and then hope that's it ?

Again there was a slight knocking sound from burner/pipes near burner which stopped after a few minutes

PK27

km79 wrote: »

Turned off CH
Closed all upstairs rads
Turned on after an hour and bottom ones are now heating
Should I open upstairs ones again in a while and then hope that's it ?

Again there was a slight knocking sound from burner/pipes near burner which stopped after a few minutes

Look in the hot press at the two central heating pipes going into the hot water cylinder. One of them should have a gate valve with a wheel on it. Turn the wheel fully clockwise to close it, then open it around two turns.
This restricts flow to your cylinder and should help force water downstairs.
Also if upstairs rads are blazing, figure out which side is the return on each rad, (the one that heats slower). Turn this down to about halfway on each rad, or more if a particular room is very warm. Make sure all the flow side (hot side) valves are fully open.
I would doubt you have an airlock with 1.5 bar of pressure in a sealed system.
Lastly if there is an automatic air vent I'm the hotpress, (like a little brass chimney) open the little nipple on top and listen for air. If you hear air and then get a drop of water it's full.
Check results.

subpar

Open them one at a time , say 5 mins between each and one and only crack the valve open about 50%

km79

PK27 wrote: »

Look in the hot press at the two central heating pipes going into the hot water cylinder. One of them should have a gate valve with a wheel on it. Turn the wheel fully clockwise to close it, then open it around two turns.
This restricts flow to your cylinder and should help force water downstairs.
Also if upstairs rads are blazing, figure out which side is the return on each rad, (the one that heats slower). Turn this down to about halfway on each rad, or more if a particular room is very warm. Make sure all the flow side (hot side) valves are fully open.
I would doubt you have an airlock with 1.5 bar of pressure in a sealed system.
Lastly if there is an automatic air vent I'm the hotpress, (like a little brass chimney) open the little nipple on top and listen for air. If you hear air and then get a drop of water it's full.
Check results.

After closing all upstairs rads the downstairs ones are working fully

PK27

And did you turn down the balancer on the coil in the hot press?

km79

PK27 wrote: »

And did you turn down the balancer on the coil in the hot press?

No didn't touch anything in hot press
Think I'll leave it till tomorrow in case I mess up

km79

I now have a bigger problem
When I went to turn back on one of the upstairs rads it was roasting and the floor was wet
Water was flowIng out of the valve .
I was sure I'd turned it off.
I've managed to stop the flow by turning it completely to the right .
The rad is now off which is not good cos it's in a child bedroom.
If I even turn the valve slightly left the flow starts again
HELP

km79

Tightened gland nut and left till morning
Then it's time to call a plumber I think

km79

All rads heated this morning
Except the one that still off. Still leaking a small bit. Prob just needs tightening or repacking but I'm leaving it to the experts now if I can get a plumber out today cos there is no guarantee the downstairs won't switch off again anyway
Thanks for all the help

TPM

some times if you open the rad valve fully and tightly it will not leak or leak very little, it is worth a try as it might get you trough untill you get the valve changed

km79

TPM wrote: »

some times if you open the rad valve fully and tightly it will not leak or leak very little, it is worth a try as it might get you trough untill you get the valve changed

Got it changed already thanks
It had slowed to a trickle that night but got it changed the next day anyway

km79

Downstairs rads not heating again

I don't know whether to call the plumber again now or a boiler service guy
The boiler Defo has a slight knocking sound when it starts up for a few minutes
Can't say if it's been there before

km79

Hoping to get plumber out today again
A motorized valve jamming was mentioned . If he can't make it is this something that can be checked easily myself
There is one in the hot with a lever that's set to auto
There is also one on pipe beside boiler ( Myson power extra )
It also has auto manual on top and a groove for a lever but there is no lever sticking out . Maybe it's inside ?
If it's a simple job to check it I'll chance it if he can't make it out to me today .
But as the upstairs heating is working and we have an open fire downstairs we are not under massive pressure so I don't want t risk messing with the upstairs heat !

km79

Still no change . No major panic as long as upstairs heating keeps working which is why I've been reluctant to go messing with those valves before plumber gets to us .
A bit more info anyway just in case it's a simple case if flicking the lever over and back in which case I may as well try it

There are 2 electric valves
One is right beside the boiler on the pipe which is boiling hot . It's is a Myson power extra. There is a potential problem checking this one though as I spotted thatbthe plastic lever handle is not there /broken off ! I could probably still manage to move it with a plastic spoon towards manual but it may not lock in
The other one is in the hot press. This one is a Darfoss . There lever is in place in this one so no issue .
The Myson one has an LED light on it so I know it's getting power. There is none on the Darfoss but I can feel it humming .

Given that's it's the downstairs heating off is it more likely to be the Myson ? If so that's going to be an issue given the lever is broken I'd imagine

Is it just simply a case of switching lever over and back a few times and hope it loosens the valve ? Should this be done when heating is on ?
If there is any risk of this affecting upstairs heating I won't even bother I'll wait until the plumber can get to us

Thanks

Sorry forgot to add
There are 2 thermostats
One in sitting room which controls downstairs - it's lighting up .this one regularly switched the heating on/off downstairs as there is an open fire in this room ! So we are used to only having heating in the sitting room anyway
One upstairs in hall - also lighting
The Timer is a clock with 3 positions
Constant on off timer
Flash immerat

JamesM

The knocking sound could be a worn bearing in the water pump. The pump could be sticking as a result of this. Upstairs would heat by gravity.
Jim

km79

JamesM wrote: »

The knocking sound could be a worn bearing in the water pump. The pump could be sticking as a result of this. Upstairs would heat by gravity.
Jim

Is this the pump on the pipes above the motorized valve .i.e not anything in the burner itself ?
I'm hoping the plumber will call today or tomorrow anyway but I did mention possibility of air in pump or another problem with pump and he suggested it was more likely a problem with valve .
Hoping it can be sorted relatively easily without a full drain down of system

JamesM

The pump is usually close to the boiler, not part of it. If the boiler is outside and if the water cannot rise to upstairs by gravity, then the problem is not the pump. Sometimes you can feel vibration in a working pump. Also sometimes you can check with a screwdriver if the pump is rotating. If you are sure the plumber is coming soon, it's better not to mess with things.
Jim

km79

JamesM wrote: »

The pump is usually close to the boiler, not part of it. If the boiler is outside and if the water cannot rise to upstairs by gravity, then the problem is not the pump. Sometimes you can feel vibration in a working pump. Also sometimes you can check with a screwdriver if the pump is rotating. If you are sure the plumber is coming soon, it's better not to mess with things.
Jim

Yeah I'll leave it . Boiler is in utility and pump is beside it.
If moving the valve lever left and right to check if it's the problem is not going to cause any issues upstairs I'd be willing to give that a go tomorrow evening if I'm still without heat downstairs

km79

The Motorized valve was gone alright
Left it without one for now so we have heat for the weekend
Problem is he ain't sure they make the exact same one anymore so wiring coood be an issue !
It's a Myson Power plus white casing with led light ?
MPE222
The silver holder on pipe says 2 port
I have found 3 on eBay which I think are correct ?
http://m.ebay.ie/sch/i.html?isRefine=true&_pgn=1&_nkw=myson+power+extra+mpe+222&LH_ItemCondition=3

km79

I have just spotted that those are just the actuators and do not contain the brass valve itself .
Is it likely thats all that needs replacing or the whole lot?
I assume no drain down would be needed if it's just the actuator