Ad on DoneDeal an undisclosed "Category C" write-off

DECEiFER

Hi all,

I'm concerned over an ad on DoneDeal that a friend spotted of my old car, which was involved in an accient with a cow on the M20 (not too dissimilar to what was reported to have occurred on the M3 a few days ago) which occurred in the early hours of October 30th, 2016 just as the clocks went back. Since the accident, I had to wait around for the ball to get rolling on a claim. Thankfully the farmer's insurance contacted me and a payout was agreed. Since the damage exceeded the book value of the car, they opted to write it off, which suited me as I wouldn't have been happy with the implications of a repair. In the meantime I was able to continue driving it.

The known damage was as follows:
- Driver's side mirror completely swiped off
- Small dent on the lip of the bonnet toward the driver's side
- Driver's side headlight unit cracked under the bonnet with damage to the main and parking lamp/bulb (the indicator and high-beam lamps worked fine)
- Bumper under the headlight popped out slightly
- Driver's side door smashed in, but it continued to open and close, and the electronics and speaker were unaffected
- A-Pillar dent along most of its span
- Small dent on the driver's side passenger door by the hinges

(photos taken on the night of the accident are attached)

In fairness, I got off quite lightly. There was a herd on the motorway just as I was taking my exit - they were located where the off ramp met the carriageway, and because I had seen other cars ahead of me on the off ramp, I did not have my high beams turned on and the area was unlit. I don't know how they fared out, as they didn't stop, but I did notice that they were going slower than normal and I had reduced my speed after observing that - which probably saved my ass. Perhaps they had high beams on and saw them, but I do know that there were other cars affected either after me or on ahead of me on the main carriageway from what the Guards told me soon after and at least one toppled over, I believe, though no serious injuries occurred (an ambulance was dispatched and I witnessed it drive past me with lights flashing headed to the nearby hospital). I managed to not hit any of them head on and got partly through a gap in the herd, but it wasn't big enough to fit through completely. The cow's head smacked off my A-Pillar and probably body-slammed my door, taking the mirror with it. I'll never forget the squeal it let off and the outpour of saliva that hit the windshield, but that's about all I can remember of that instant because it all happened so fast and I was in a fair state of shock after it happened, so I continued to drive until I got off the exit and dialed 999. Animal-lovers, I'm sorry! But given the circumstances, would it be wrong to grill it at this point?

Initially I had began a claim with my own insurance company and they were willing to go with a repair, with the estimate coming to just over €2000, and that was using "recycled" parts via Ace Autobody. The farmer's insurance, when they took over, on the other hand sent out an actual acessor and he wasn't happy to go with "recycled" parts, although he did mention that repairs could be done on the cheap for as little as 500 or thereabouts.

The claim included a sum from the insurance company and an additional 300 to be paid by the "salvage" company once I got them to take it away. They gave me a number to call for a company in Ennis.

I decided to wait until I had a replacement car before calling them because the payout wasn't what I'd hoped and I didn't want to burn cash on a rental. However, I got a car on December 10th, and had the salvage company take the old one away at 5pm on Wednesday, December 14th, 2016. According to the ad on DoneDeal, it was entered 25 days ago, which by my count makes the date Saturday, December 17th, 2016. Therefore they had the car less than 3 days before putting it up for sale. Because of this, I am questioning the quality of the repair. They were crafty enough to take the pictures of the unaffected areas. For example, the bonnet picture only shows the half that didn't collide with the cow. You can see that they put on a driver's side mirror, however, but that's not enough to put my mind at ease. The description discloses nothing about its history and only mentions a small dent in the door, which I'm not sure is on a replacement door or they somehow managed to beat the original door most of the way back to normal.

If anyone has any doubts as to whether the car was mine, I can tell you a number of things that match up. The NCT disc marks the exact due date, the tax goes until July 1017 which also matches, the odometer shows 175k KM - also a match, and the disc holder is from the dealership I purchased the car from, and the plate shows enough characters to match up with its registration of 05-CE-3470 ("05-C..." in one photo and ending in "70" in another), not to mention that the car is listed as being in Ennis, where the salvage company is based. Based on all that evidence, I couldn't be more certain.

So in terms of disclosure, what is required of them? And in terms of the repair, does it have to be done to a certain standard and being signed-off by an engineer? One might say that they'd be upfront once someone commits to buying but given the evidence so far, I'm not confident that they will. I have reported the ad to DoneDeal as well, just in case.

JohnBoy26

It's a 12 year old €1300 car with very light damage which is mostly disclosed in the ad when they mention damage to the drivers door.

I don't think anything has been repaired, the car has just been put back up for sale as is. There is no safety issues with the car, as far as I can see it's all cosmetic.

I don't really see any problem here tbh.

DECEiFER

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

It's a 12 year old €1300 car with very light damage which is mostly disclosed in the ad when they mention damage to the drivers door.

I don't think anything has been repaired, the car has just been put back up for sale as is. There is no safety issues with the car, as far as I can see it's all cosmetic.

I don't really see any problem here tbh.

Thanks, JohnBoy. Sure, you could be right and I could be ringing more into this than need be. The driver's door was a bit more than light damage externally so they'd have to have done something with that in order for it to be qualified as "light." Also, I'm not sure about the structural integrity since the A-Pillar was dented, and should the car roll in the future, would it suffice to protect the driver. I'm still worried, however, that it would still need disclosure that it was previously written off. I know car checks will reveal this and it's up to the buyer to be diligent, but still, I'm only trying to figure out if they are required to disclose it or not at this point. If not, I guess it's a moot point and I hope whoever buys it gets a safe and reliable car.

I've always gone Japanese with my cars and have had a few 323s and a Corolla before this, and they've always been spot-on and required little work done and always passed the NCT. This Mazda3 I NCT'd after I boutht it last January and it sailed through as well, but back in July or August, I had a fairly nasty scare when the brake hose burst as I approached a roundabout with afternoon traffic, causing all pressure to be lost and the pedal to hit the floor. Luckily no crash occurred. I got that fixed and it turned out that whoever serviced the car, be it the dealership (who claimed they did the brakes) or beforehand, had left a bracket in a position where it was able to cut through the hose, so from day one of owning it, it was an accident waiting to happen. So I didn't have much luck with that car! I bought another just like it (a few years newer) so here's hoping it goes better this time.

GustavoFring

Panel damage is light damage. I wouldn't be worried about the door at all tbh.

If you want to know if they are disclosing it ring them, pretend to be an interested buyer and ask them directly about it.

DECEiFER

GustavoFring wrote: »

Panel damage is light damage. I wouldn't be worried about the door at all tbh.

If you want to know if they are disclosing it ring them, pretend to be an interested buyer and ask them directly about it.

I was thinking of doing that so I'll give him a buzz tomorrow, and ask for more photos and somehow subtely broach the subject of an accient having occurred.

JohnBoy26

DECEiFER wrote: »

I was thinking of doing that so I'll give him a buzz tomorrow, and ask for more photos and somehow subtely broach the subject of an accient having occurred.

The thing is they mightn't even know about it being written off though. As far as the car is concerned they haven't covered up anything. It's as it was when the accident occured. Just because it was written off doesn't mean it is dangerous.

Anyone going to view it will be able to see what they are buying. It's not as if they slapped fillers all over it and repainted the whole thing and pretended it was a pristine example.

In this case I don't see the need to follow up on anything. If it had structural damage covered up then maybe but not in this case.

Toyotafanboi

If it's any consolation, that car at that price with that ad doesn't stand a snowballs chance in hell of selling anyway.

extra-ordinary_

Cat Cs not need to be examined after repair before being put back on the road here...no?

Reg also hidden to hide the write-off on a car check.

DECEiFER

extra-ordinary_ wrote: »

Cat Cs not need to be examined after repair before being put back on the road here...no?

Reg also hidden to hide the write-off on a car check.

You can click on the link to go to the MyWheels check, and it launches the site with the plate pre-entered, but that's about it.

It's definitely sketchy at the very least and while I was more than happy to have the whole process over and done with and could have said nothing, I just wanted to be sure nobody would be fooled into buying something without the facts.

DECEiFER

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

If it's any consolation, that car at that price with that ad doesn't stand a snowballs chance in hell of selling anyway.

The price speaks volumes for sure.

JohnBoy26

extra-ordinary_ wrote: »

Cat Cs not need to be examined after repair before being put back on the road here...no?

Reg also hidden to hide the write-off on a car check.

What will they check though? A dent in the bonnet and door. The reason it was written off is because they qoute for genuine parts and mazda genuine parts aren't cheap.

JohnBoy26

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

If it's any consolation, that car at that price with that ad doesn't stand a snowballs chance in hell of selling anyway.

You'd be surprised. Ono means there is room for haggling and it's a reasonably modern car with a a good bit of tax and test on it. If you can excuse the cosmetics you could do worse for the money.

Toyotafanboi

In fairness, there is €250 of tax on it, didn't cop that. Just an unpopular model with a **** ad mentioning unseen damage located in county not dublin.

DECEiFER

The fact that there is that much tax continues to irk me and I question whether taxing for 12 months is a good idea, even though you save money if you keep the car. I wish I'd only taxed it for 6 months now. If only we had a similar system (and pricing) as the UK where we can get a refund upon the sale of the vehicle!

A decent Mazda3 2005, though, without issues and clean all round would set you back at least 2k and when shopping for my recent replacement, I ignored anything under that because I knew full well that they're priced low for a reason. I've always liked the look of them even compared to the Mazda6 first gen (though, the second gen Mazda6 looks a more modern first gen Mazda3 - quite nice) and having owned a few 1.5 323s in the past, which I felt drove better than my 1998 1.3 Corolla (which will not be beaten for reliability - it's a trooper), I ended up getting one and now I have another. I even managed to wire in an extra cable to the computer of the 2005 (thanks to instructions and a wiring diagram posted on a Mazda3 forum) to connect to the radio's LCD to show the fuel computer data (a feature available as standard on GT Mazda3 models - the very same data as you get as standard on a Mazda6) and bought a radio head unit from a GT model on eBay to make it accessible. A nice little extra to have when you weren't initially expecting it. Luckily in 2006, Mazda changed the wiring so that the extra cable was included and once you have the correct radio (which I took out and kept before selling the 2005 to them, with the stock 2005 radio and LCD put back in) it works instantly. The radios all look the same on the front but it's what chips are on the inside that counts.

I have no doubt that someone will buy it but I'd just like the buyer to know what the story is. In other words, I never expected the salvage company not to make money on it. That's fine. It's done and dusted now and I sold it to them knowing it was possible that it'd be sold on instead of scrapped. The issue is being honest about it being written off by the insurance company due to a genuine repair costing more than its value, therefore uneconomical, and a Category C and certainly if the law requires it. Anyone know if it does or not for certain? My concern was the only real reason why I started this thread.

millington

It was only a write off because the car was worth so little. If it was worth any more it would have a had a few panels slapped on and bobs your uncle.

ronaneire

It was only written off because it was beyond economical repair. A dint in the bonnet and a pushed in door won't render it unsafe to drive. You mentioned you continued to drive it afterwards.

Some insurance companies will know it's being classed as a C write off and will either require an engineers report or just won't provide cover.

At this stage it's 12 years old and he has it for sale for 26 days. I wouldn't be too worried.

extra-ordinary_

From here...

Insurance Write Offs

Insurers provide details of written-off vehicles and the NVDF is updated with these particulars. Where written off instances are noted on the NVDF it results in the affected vehicles on the system being generally ‘locked down’ so that no further activity such as changes of vehicle ownership or renewal of motor tax can be recorded. ‘Write offs’ generally refer to vehicles that have been extensively damaged and designated by insurers as being totally or substantially destroyed.

Soarer

extra-ordinary_ wrote: »

From here...

Insurance Write Offs

Insurers provide details of written-off vehicles and the NVDF is updated with these particulars. Where written off instances are noted on the NVDF it results in the affected vehicles on the system being generally ‘locked down’ so that no further activity such as changes of vehicle ownership or renewal of motor tax can be recorded. ‘Write offs’ generally refer to vehicles that have been extensively damaged and designated by insurers as being totally or substantially destroyed.

That'd be a bit late if someone buys it.

DECEiFER

extra-ordinary_ wrote: »

From here...

Insurance Write Offs

Insurers provide details of written-off vehicles and the NVDF is updated with these particulars. Where written off instances are noted on the NVDF it results in the affected vehicles on the system being generally ‘locked down’ so that no further activity such as changes of vehicle ownership or renewal of motor tax can be recorded. ‘Write offs’ generally refer to vehicles that have been extensively damaged and designated by insurers as being totally or substantially destroyed.

It's not end-of-life so it still can be sold, etc. I had to sell it to them in the first place. If only it was EOL and I'd have a few extra bucks coming from a tax refund!

DECEiFER

ronaneire wrote: »

Some insurance companies will know it's being classed as a C write off and will either require an engineers report or just won't provide cover..

That was the main reason why I wanted to get rid of it. It's tainted.

JohnBoy26

extra-ordinary_ wrote: »

From here...

Insurance Write Offs

Insurers provide details of written-off vehicles and the NVDF is updated with these particulars. Where written off instances are noted on the NVDF it results in the affected vehicles on the system being generally ‘locked down’ so that no further activity such as changes of vehicle ownership or renewal of motor tax can be recorded. ‘Write offs’ generally refer to vehicles that have been extensively damaged and designated by insurers as being totally or substantially destroyed.

It's not extensively damaged or totally destroyed though.

JohnBoy26

DECEiFER wrote: »

That was the main reason why I wanted to get rid of it. It's tainted.

What difference will it make on a car of that age though?

DECEiFER

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

What difference will it make on a car of that age though?

Well with insurance being what it is these days, I'd rather not have any hassle. But given that I've never had anything like this happen to me before, I was making decisions based on what I felt would be best rather than what I could be certain of, which wasn't much anyway. I lost money in the process but I also gained a car that's 2 years younger with minor improvements designed by the manufacturer in between those two years, and I'm just glad it's now sorted.

R.O.R

Who said it was a "Cat C" write off? That's a Cat D if anything.

05CE3470 is showing as clear on the check I have access to - no insurance alert on that registration.

Cosmetic damage doesn't make a vehicle unsafe. Dents in the visible part of the A Pillar aren't a reason by themselves to have safety concerns over a vehicle - if the structural integrity of the pillar itself is damaged then that could be a concern, but you can tell whether it's that badly damaged by looking at the outside of the A Pillar.

DECEiFER

R.O.R wrote: »

Who said it was a "Cat C" write off? That's a Cat D if anything.

05CE3470 is showing as clear on the check I have access to - no insurance alert on that registration.

Cosmetic damage doesn't make a vehicle unsafe. Dents in the visible part of the A Pillar aren't a reason by themselves to have safety concerns over a vehicle - if the structural integrity of the pillar itself is damaged then that could be a concern, but you can tell whether it's that badly damaged by looking at the outside of the A Pillar.

I was told it was C by FBD (farmer's insurers) but had thought maybe it was a D as well, but I was going on what they told me.

Thanks for the clarification on the rest. I'm surprised it didn't come up with anything on your check, though...