Views wanted

zjflikeIrish

I am a Chinese girl living in mainland China. I'm doing an international sales job which kept me contacting with foreign customers.

In my head, foreigners are much more advanced and superior than us Chinese. And you are very different from us. I ever thought you were aliens in this planet or you are immortal. And you are powerful, harmful, bullying and belittling weak Chinese. That's not the case, right?

I have contacted some foreign clients due to my business. They are Russian, Indian, and Polish man. When I am contacting with them face to face, I am very scared and frightened at the bottom of heart. Because I thought they are superior, they are alien, for which I can not even guess what they will feel about me or think. I'm just very frightened before them. And it will ruin my job, I can not communicate with them face to face in a normal and sensitive way. And even my emails with them suck, to a degree.

I thought it is due to my misinterpretation about foreigners so I wish someone could provide some objective views to help me go out of the misinterpretation.

And to be honest, I don't have or I don't understand the belief that all men are created equal. I just thought people in developed countries are advanced, and people in developing countries are inferior. But I feel it is not true after I read many threads here.

JimmyTClarke

zjflikeIrish wrote: »

I am a Chinese girl living in mainland china. I'm doing an international sales job which kept me contacting with foreign customers.

In my head, foreigners are much more advanced and superior than us Chinese. And you are very different from us. I ever thought you were aliens in this planet or you are immortal. And you are powerful, harmful, bullying and belittling weak Chinese. That's not the case, right?

I have contacted some foreign clients due to my business.They are Russian, Indian, and Polish man. When I am contacting with them face to face, I'm very scared and frightened at the bottom of heart. Because I thought they are superior, they are alien, which I can not even guess what they will feel about me or think. I'm just very frightened before them. And it will ruin my job, I can not communicate with them face to face in a normal and sensitive way.

I don't mean to be discourteous, but are you serious?

zjflikeIrish

JimmyTClarke wrote: »

zjflikeIrish wrote: »

I am a Chinese girl living in mainland china. I'm doing an international sales job which kept me contacting with foreign customers.

In my head, foreigners are much more advanced and superior than us Chinese. And you are very different from us. I ever thought you were aliens in this planet or you are immortal. And you are powerful, harmful, bullying and belittling weak Chinese. That's not the case, right?

I have contacted some foreign clients due to my business.They are Russian, Indian, and Polish man. When I am contacting with them face to face, I'm very scared and frightened at the bottom of heart. Because I thought they are superior, they are alien, which I can not even guess what they will feel about me or think. I'm just very frightened before them. And it will ruin my job, I can not communicate with them face to face in a normal and sensitive way.

I don't mean to be discourteous, but are you serious?

Yes I'm very serious.

Taltos

OP

I think Jimmy asked you that question as your views are just so different that they would border on the trollish for want of a better word and would typically be a viewpoint we'd see elsewhere here from certain groups looking to stir the pot if you will.

A few things, and like everything else here this is just my viewpoint, you could equally get someone here arguing the exact opposite.

In my head, foreigners are much more advanced and superior than us Chinese.

Nope. Not at all. Culturally we are all very different to each other and this sounds like something the media/state would have someone believe to control them through fear.

And you are very different from us. I ever thought you were aliens in this planet or you are immortal. And you are powerful, harmful, bullying and belittling weak Chinese. That's not the case, right?

Read back through that a few times - aliens/immortals - if you really really think this then the only advice I have is to seek professional help as soon as you can.
Bullying the weak Chinese? OP - you guys are bankrolling most of the nations in this world including the "mighty" USA, trust me the Chinese are not weak.

Again culturally you are very different to say my culture. And that's not a bad thing once one culture doesn't try to impose it's views on another, say through religion or similar. There are lessons our cultures can teach each other - care for the elderly, welfare of animals, etc but that's a topic for another forum.

In respect to how you behave around your customers use a word of advice. Years ago I worked with a Chinese national here who for some unknown reason acted and spoke like a little child as this was "expected" of her (in her mind). All this did was drive a wedge between her and her colleagues who couldn't take her seriously or even at the end treat her with any respect. As she acted like a child that was exactly how they ended up treating and talking to her until she left. I've never ever seen someone sabotage their own career and friendships as she did and even now years later I just don't get why she did that. Please do go and get some help for your own self-confidence, learn to treat others with respect but communicate in a way that doesn't belittle what you bring to the conversation, you are the equal of any person you meet, but you may need to defer or show respect to differing extents depending on if you are dealing with a peer or the manager of your company.

If you do find these thoughts of immortals or aliens preying on you then as before seek help as soon as you can, nip that in the bud early to ensure you have a chance at a happier life.

shesty

I'm delving deep here and I'm going to try not to stand on any inter-cultural toes but.....

In school we read a book called "Wild Swans". I don't know if you've heard of it, and I'm not sure if it's available in China. It's a biography of a woman, her mother and her Grandmother, and a view on China during most of the 20th Century - Geishas (is that right?), communism, chairman Mao,etc.The woman who wrote it is Chinese, but moved to the UK sometime in the 80s or 90s. She was allowed to by the Government - I can't quite remember the reason, but I think it was to do with her job or her university education. She stayed, wrote the book while in the UK and possibly married an Englishman.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that one particular sentence always stuck in my mind from this book. When she was a teen or in her early 20s, she saw a foreign movie (ie an American movie). I can't remember the exact context, but she said something like she and everyone she knew always believed that foreign people (ie anyone not Chinese) had red hair, big noses and went around drinking Coca Cola all the time. Because that's the kind of image they picked up from what they saw/read/were told.

It's a very tough thing to do OP, but your impressions are quite possibly due to what you have been taught, told, and your exposure to foreign people. In truth, we are all the same. There are cultural differences - there are cultural differences between us in Ireland and Russians or Polish people - but no, nobody is superior or more intelligent. It is an idea you seem to have got into your head, and somehow you should probably try to work past it. Nobody is powerful or bullying or belittling the weak Chinese, and honestly as Taltos said, I think that may be something that is said by media or propaganda, that somebody or some organisation wants you to believe that.

Taltos advice is very good. Maybe consider getting advice on how to interact with other cultures or nationalities. And consider it to be cultural advice - like the French kiss people on both cheeks when they meet on the street, but we in Ireland wouldn't do that.....like the Japanese bow in a certain way, but that's not something we do either. It's just different countries do things in different ways, but it doesn't make one better than the other.

zjflikeIrish

Taltos

Thank you for you answer.

Actually I have already found myself a psychological counselor. And he is very helpful and supportive. I went here starting this thread just with the hope(genuine) of listening opinions from you foreign people. Because I thought it can be much helpful also. And because I know most Irish people are very objective and very clear in their minds. So it can do help me greatly also.

Thank you for your opinions.

As for that Chinese girl who worked with you years ago, I could imagine that could happen. Because in China we have so many people at an adult age physically but with a child psychological age. Even they are in there 40s, 50s or even older, their mind could be a child. And it is a kind of mental illness. Their body grew up, but not did their cognition. I am also one of them.

Digression: I really like Ireland and especially Irish people. Love your songs and films and your culture pretty pretty much!!

amtc

I think it's very impressive to use essentially a second language.

I was interested in your views about being child like. I work with a Chinese professional and although very competent and had come here on her own whilst her husband in army was so meek. She is eminently qualified but so quiet in team meetings. Anyway what she did was adopt a western first name and essentially used that as a more outgoing persona as did her husband when joined her in Ireland. Seems a bit extreme but works for them.

Irish_Elect_Eng

Understanding cultural differences is a minfield in business :-)

Here is a book that I use and find very good.

When-Cultures-Collide

zjflikeIrish

shesty

Many thanks for your insights.

Yes it's true. I was told from very young age that foreigners are very stronger than us. Our textbooks in both junior and senior high schools described foreigners as really really powerful and evil people. You grabbed our treasures through wars. For example, the very famous war Nanjing Massacre(Japanese did it) and
The Burning Of Imperial Palace(powerful westerners did it). These wars impressed me heavily, giving me a impression that you are very powerful, aggressive and more superior than us. And we are weak. One famous saying in China from our political leaders(I don't know who exactly said it) is Lagging behind leaves one vulnerable to attacks. And this saying kept stuck in my head too.

I mean I had believed for my past more than 20 years, that you foreigners want to bully us and grab treasures from us because you are powerful and if we get strong, we will not be bullied. And being strong is the only way to avoid your possible bullying. Actually many many Chinese live in the fear of wars/bullying from foreigners, definitely not only me. And this may be our mainstream ideology I think. Our medias(especially state medias) constantly give us impressions like that even until today.

You know it's really hard to get rid of that impression that you are powerful and will bully and beat us when you're in bad temper or you just feel like to...

But I really can't believe you civilized foreigners will want to bully us only because you're in a bad mood to us.

There is a big conflict in my mind. So, I need your viewpoints as a help..

Will you bully or belittle us?
What is your attitude towards ordinary Chinese people?
In China, many people think foreigners will belittle us. What about the reality?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Is there any way you could interact with foreigners more outside of work, in a manner that you feel safe? Your English is very good, would some kind of language exchange thing be possible? Even reading boards or other sites might help to normalise us a bit in your mind.

You're coming across as intelligent, articulate and very self aware. You have absolutely no need to feel intimidated by or inferior to foreigners, and you've clearly identified how this came to be a problem and how it's affecting you; I'd say you're well able to overcome this.

It's really interesting to get this viewpoint, as a lot of people have pretty much exactly the same attitude towards the Chinese! I don't know how many conversations I've had with Westerners where the subject is being in absolute awe of the Chinese, trust me, there's a reasonable chance anyone you talk to is as scared of you as you are of them I worked for a Chinese man and with some Chinese colleagues briefly last year, great experience but holy God I did not know it was possible for people to work so hard, I don't mean to belittle your situation at all but I'm actually kind of amused by the idea of a Chinese person finding an Irish person intimidating in this context.

Taltos

Yup, I think you've just fallen into the trap of buying into the propaganda you were taught in school. We had similar here in relation to the English, our historical studies were very skewed to be anti-brit (rightly/wrongly). Something to realise is fear is an amazing tool many governments use to control their population, especially one as numerous as yours.

Fear of global warming, fear of terrorist attack, job losses, disease, house repossessions. And its nothing new, religions across the globe have similarly used this same tool - fear of hell, the devil, damnation, witches. Inspire fear and then offer in varying degrees a way to address to gain trust, over time those degrees become quite shocking, but a slow progression works most of the time.

It's really through education, a desire to learn (not to memorise) and a willingness to listen (not just hear) that you can change how you view things. But part of that is working on yourself with the professional to improve your own self-confidence and self-worth. Now I'm not saying that you won't meet Irish who will attack (verbally or otherwise) someone from China, just as you'd meet someone from China who'd attack someone from Ireland or Japan. Whether driven by fear themselves or anger you are always going to get people who are just idiots, and hell sometimes they even get elected to positions of power or are made presidents. You've a choice really I guess, you can either let your learned fear control and define you or you can grow and accept that people are different and the only real thing to fear is ignorance (and the ignorant), but at the same time caution and awareness of your surroundings is key.

As to our views on the ordinary Chinese people - OP you'll get a 1000 & 1 answers to that. It's like asking how do we view the Indian's or the Russians or the Americans - without direct interaction all we've got to go on is what we see or read in our media, or learn from our history books, and just like you've learnt that foreigners are bad or violent not everything we've learnt about your history is positive towards you either, even right now. Double-edged sword and all that but this is used as an illustration and is not an extension into political discussion (we've other forums for that here).

zjflikeIrish

amtc wrote: »

I think it's very impressive to use essentially a second language.

I was interested in your views about being child like. I work with a Chinese professional and although very competent and had come here on her own whilst her husband in army was so meek. She is eminently qualified but so quiet in team meetings. Anyway what she did was adopt a western first name and essentially used that as a more outgoing persona as did her husband when joined her in Ireland. Seems a bit extreme but works for them.

Her being quiet is not necessarily the evidence of she is child like or having some psychological problems. Might partly due to the restriction of her listening and spoken English level?

When I was having meetings with foreign customers with our manager, I kept very very quiet also. It's partly due to the fear of the customers, partly due to my poor English listening and oral expression. The feeling really sucks. And now I am trying to improve them.

GingerLily

I've worked with and am friends with two Chinese women and their personalities couldn't be more different, both lovely and VERY intelligent (phds etc.) I really wouldn't ever make a generalisation on Chinese based on my experience of these great women.
I don't know anyone that views Chinese as inferior, yes there are some cultural differences but it just makes them more interesting.
I think maybe you need to me conscious that you've had a lot of distorted messages about Europeans from school and other media sources, try if you can to challenge these good luck

dellas1979

I speak as someone who has visited your country

First of all, I encountered (generally) very nice people. And I enjoyed learning about the culture. I did not know what to expect. And I was curious to find out. I did not go there thinking "I am western, so I am superior." But there are differences.

Your country (to me) was like an alien planet, much as here might seem to you. From the food (what it was/how it was prepped), to the culture. To hygiene (spitting in the streets). No, it was not what I was used to.

I am a well travelled person (and various countries in Asia), and lived in different countries, and when I went through the gates at the airport, I believe I suffered with what is known as "culture shock". The place was just so thronged/full of swarms of people and so loud.

Maybe you should try a trip to our side of the world as an adventure?

zjflikeIrish

dellas1979 wrote: »

I am a well travelled person (and various countries in Asia), and lived in different countries, and when I went through the gates at the airport, I believe I suffered with what is known as "culture shock". The place was just so thronged/full of swarms of people and so loud.

Maybe you should try a trip to our side of the world as an adventure?

I wish I could travel to Europe one day. It needs a lot of money and it is a little messy to apply for a visa. We really envy you living in developed countries could travel to so many countries without a visa.

Anyway, thanks for your reply.

Hmm_Messiah

zjflikeIrish wrote: »

shesty

Many thanks for your insights.

Yes it's true. I was told from very young age that foreigners are very stronger than us. Our textbooks in both junior and senior high schools described foreigners as really really powerful and evil people. You grabbed our treasures through wars. For example, the very famous war Nanjing Massacre(Japanese did it) and
The Burning Of Imperial Palace(powerful westerners did it). These wars impressed me heavily, giving me a impression that you are very powerful, aggressive and more superior than us. And we are weak. One famous saying in China from our political leaders(I don't know who exactly said it) is Lagging behind leaves one vulnerable to attacks. And this saying kept stuck in my head too.

I mean I had believed for my past more than 20 years, that you foreigners want to bully us and grab treasures from us because you are powerful and if we get strong, we will not be bullied. And being strong is the only way to avoid your possible bullying. Actually many many Chinese live in the fear of wars/bullying from foreigners, definitely not only me. And this may be our mainstream ideology I think. Our medias(especially state medias) constantly give us impressions like that even until today.


Will you bully or belittle us?
What is your attitude towards ordinary Chinese people?
In China, many people think foreigners will belittle us. What about the reality?

HI - I am sorry to say I disagree to some extent with other replies. Not with the perceptions you have but with their origin /nature . I have many Chinese friends, and a chinesE partner in the past - I will be over in Guilin in the coming weeks. almost nothing you listed seems to be relevant to the people I know ( in their 20's and then their parents)

Your views on bullying and belittling seem internalised and suggest personal issues you have - i.e. that these perceptions are your own, not of Chinese people generally . Mostly - in a broad sense - Asians are seen as sophisticated, with a high work ethic, and strong education ethic - the stereotype being of the Asian student feeling bad when not getting 100% in every exam

before others mention different literature like " wild swans" etc - I might add I studied some Chinese- western perceptions /stereotypes etc when helping some one with their masters - the perceptions in those books is old, often overstated , and should not be the view of any young person in modern china . You say " Actually many many Chinese live in the fear of wars/bullying from foreigners, definitely not only me. And this may be our mainstream ideology I think." - as a westerneR this has NOT been my experience at all - either in china or for example when I hosted a Chinese family for 5 weeks in 2016 in Ireland - on their first travel abroad

I think your issues are personal and you need to tackle them as personal - while your fears and concerns may be real to you, they do not match reality , and that is what you should tackle, and with the counsellor you mentioned

The only small part of the general tone of your questions I can empathise with is language based - Chinese English speakers often feel very conscious of their English skills, as English taught in China is centred on reading/writing and not oral communication

dellas1979

zjflikeIrish wrote: »

I wish I could travel to Europe one day. It needs a lot of money and it is a little messy to apply for a visa. We really envy you living in developed countries could travel to so many countries without a visa.

Anyway, thanks for your reply.

Well, as part of the EU, yes I can travel to other EU countries, without a visa. For China, I had to apply/get a tourist visa - it didnt fall into my lap (I had to drive the bones of 5 hours to do/get this visa, and I wanted to go, so I went and got it/did the paper work).

If you want to travel, you will. You will save up as much as you can, and find a way.

I think it would be much better to educate yourself through travel etc, than what is mirrored in media.

Mark Tapley

OP this article might be of interest to you. It's about a Chinese woman moving to the United Kingdom - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/10/xiaolu-guo-why-i-moved-from-beijing-to-london

Hmm_Messiah

Mark Tapley wrote: »

OP this article might be of interest to you. It's about a Chinese woman moving to the United Kingdom - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/10/xiaolu-guo-why-i-moved-from-beijing-to-london

I read that piece and it seems in part to only re-enforce the concerns of the OP. I would point out , it is about some one who moved to Uk in 2002 - a long time ago considering the fast moving times since then. and also reading it critically it seems deliberately laced with tropes of the " alien abroad", the "outsider" and all the trappings that might come with a film maker publishing a book. Personally I would not find it helpful at all for a realistic, average view point of the West's common place, current view of Chinese people

Mark Tapley

Hmm_Messiah wrote: »

I read that piece and it seems in part to only re-enforce the concerns of the OP. I would point out , it is about some one who moved to Uk in 2002 - a long time ago considering the fast moving times since then. and also reading it critically it seems deliberately laced with tropes of the " alien abroad", the "outsider" and all the trappings that might come with a film maker publishing a book. Personally I would not find it helpful at all for a realistic, average view point of the West's common place, current view of Chinese people

You seem to have experience and knowledge in the area which I don't. I didn't mean to muddy the waters.