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Nailing lead

  • 05-01-2017 6:34pm
    #1
    shugy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 409 ✭✭


    Why is it here in Ireland we nail lead to chimney's for plastering over rather than the UK where they build it into the block or brick work!

    I'm asking because I think the damp patch in my attic is because of this method. I had to raise my chimney 3 block high on my holiday home because it didn't meet building regs! Although I did get money off the sale, when buying just before Christmas.

    What I did was , strip back old plaster, removed old cap and the lead that was nailed on. Got my cousin who is a block layer to build block and cap the chimney with ,4 inch block and concrete cap. He nailed 5inch lead onto the block so it would cover the lead on roof(same as was there), bead and plastered.

    3 weeks later, we have damp patch in attic just below where the lead is! When he was building the block, I suggested building it in but to my horror, he nailed it on. When I worked on the UK(many moons ago), I never seen this once! How is a chimney supposed to not leak if lead is nailed on with this method if it's a single block built in a sq!


Comments

  • #2
    Johnnyhpipe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 748 ✭✭✭Johnnyhpipe


    It should be built in..


  • #3
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,889 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    As per attached, Barrys Building construction, copyright acknowledged

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • #4
    shugy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 409 ✭✭shugy


    Johnnyhpipe wrote: »
    It should be built in..

    Phoned a few tradesmen and they say the opposite but i agree with you. Why are so many just niling it onto block and plastering over it with a bead then and getting away with it.


  • #5
    Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,547 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    shugy wrote: »
    Phoned a few tradesmen and they say the opposite but i agree with you. Why are so many just niling it onto block and plastering over it with a bead then and getting away with it.

    Because the ones who do it that way are lazy sods.


  • #6
    Johnnyhpipe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 748 ✭✭✭Johnnyhpipe


    shugy wrote: »
    Phoned a few tradesmen and they say the opposite but i agree with you. Why are so many just niling it onto block and plastering over it with a bead then and getting away with it.

    Sounds like a very poor detail. Effectively guarantees that water will get in.

    I don't think there's a realistic quick fix other than redoing it right IMO.


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  • #7
    duckcfc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 616 ✭✭✭duckcfc


    I have been on sites and seen my own sisters and uncles chimneys lead finished like the OP mentioned. Have seen many a house go up without the lead built into the block. They nail 6inch lead onto the block then nail a plastic bead over it and render. Just make sure there's dpc under cap and around flue. OP, your best asking a plasteter instead of on here.


  • #8
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,172 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    shugy wrote: »
    Phoned a few tradesmen and they say the opposite but i agree with you. Why are so many just niling it onto block and plastering over it with a bead then and getting away with it.

    because we have a legacy of very many poor tradesmen who learned "on the job" and were only ever though the easy way to do things for themselves and not the proper way to get the best result.

    these tradesmen then counter any query with "well this is the way ive always done it" without any understanding of the issues being discussed.

    building lead into a block chimney is actually much easier than into a brick chimney
    there are also full chimney trays that hardy any blockies use, again because its easier for them not to.


  • #9
    duckcfc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 616 ✭✭✭duckcfc


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    because we have a legacy of very many poor tradesmen who learned "on the job" and were only ever though the easy way to do things for themselves and not the proper way to get the best result.

    these tradesmen then counter any query with "well this is the way ive always done it" without any understanding of the issues being discussed.

    building lead into a block chimney is actually much easier than into a brick chimney
    there are also full chimney trays that hardy any blockies use, again because its easier for them not to.



    How is it easier?

    I've seen the full trays but they are for brick chimneys.

    Nailing lead on, without building it in must work if its getting done throughout the country otherwise we'd be hearing of all damp patches on chimneys. I've been in many a house where it's been nailed on, even in dormers and no damp!


  • #10
    mcneil
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 332 ✭✭mcneil


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    because we have a legacy of very many poor tradesmen who learned "on the job" and were only ever though the easy way to do things for themselves and not the proper way to get the best result.

    these tradesmen then counter any query with "well this is the way ive always done it" without any understanding of the issues being discussed.

    building lead into a block chimney is actually much easier than into a brick chimney
    there are also full chimney trays that hardy any blockies use, again because its easier for them not to.



    Nailing lead onto block houses is acceptable practice here in Ireland! Just as long as there's enough water proofer in the scratch coat and scratched efficiently, then there shouldn't be damp. Yes you can build it in, but nailing it on-is just as efficient if done correctly. To be honest, I haven't seen anyone build lead into a block house here in Ireland and I've seen hundreds of houses go up!!

    Think about it for a sec! You have block, chimney cap with closed off with concrete with waterproofer in it. Under that you have dpc so the water can't get through the cap. You also have dpc tied around the chimney flue with small piece of string or thin rope . Once concrete is set, remove rope and fill with a sealent. The lead is nailed on with a scratch coat (or2) then a final coat of S&G. When the rain hits the chimney, gravity pulls it down. The rain runs down the wall , onto the lead and away onto the roof. Unless the lead is damaged or the render has been compromised, then it shouldn't get damp. Fact!!


  • #11
    tradesman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 390 ✭✭tradesman


    IMO, I wouldn't put water proofer in the scratch coat because the top coat will not suck into the scratch coat properly it tends to hang & droop on the 1st coat. Also when you scratch the 1st coat you are potentially breaking the seal of the water proofer. I would have nothing against nailing the lead correctly with washered steel nails. Also leave the scratch coat to set for a couple of days before final coat is applied


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  • #12
    duckcfc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 616 ✭✭✭duckcfc


    Who's job is it anyway for lead work. Is it a roofer, a plasteter, block layers or some have even mentioned it's a plumbers job.


  • #13
    tradesman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 390 ✭✭tradesman


    duckcfc wrote: »
    Who's job is it anyway for lead work. Is it a roofer, a plasteter, block layers or some have even mentioned it's a plumbers job.

    Good question. In my mind it is part of the roofers job if a plastered chimney is being built but if a brick chimney is used then it is the bricklayers job as he would / could build it in as he goes. In Ireland fitting tiles or slates is apparently the plasterers job! (down to the unions i think) Actual lead work is a skilled job mainly seen in prestigious buildings. Fitting chimney flashing is down to common sense to an experienced builder


  • #14
    mcneil
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 332 ✭✭mcneil


    tradesman wrote: »
    Good question. In my mind it is part of the roofers job if a plastered chimney is being built but if a brick chimney is used then it is the bricklayers job as he would / could build it in as he goes. In Ireland fitting tiles or slates is apparently the plasterers job! (down to the unions i think) Actual lead work is a skilled job mainly seen in prestigious buildings. Fitting chimney flashing is down to common sense to an experienced builder


    Its a plumbers job in uk! union thing again. Here in ireland, the roofers nail it onto the chimney when they are doing the other lead work on a roof. If its a chimney take down and build, its either the blockies or plasterers who do it or even the builder. 90% of lead work is simple, its the back of the chimney where the difficult cut is because if done wrong, itll tear.


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