Laws that apply to Irish Citizens worldwide

Fred Swanson

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brian_t

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Can you not be tried in Ireland if you commit child sex offenses abroad.

Denny_Crane

Yes but one needs to be very careful with the way that's applied. It applies in Ireland which is how one gets around the 'extraterritorial effect' issue.

GM228

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Are there any laws in Ireland that apply to Irish Citizens abroad?

Treason, counterfeiting money, money laundering, corruption and passport abuse.

Also female genital mutilation and child sex tourisn if also an offence where it occured.

Fred Swanson

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Carawaystick

GM228 wrote: »

Treason, counterfeiting money, money laundering, and corruption.

Sher corrupt lads here get a free pass, I doubt fellas away abroad would get pulled up on it.

How is counterfeiting money defined? The fellas in the old ira helping the Norks print dollars have never been tried here, but the US wants them.

GM228

Carawaystick wrote: »

How is counterfeiting money defined?

See S32 and 33 of the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act 2001.

Carawaystick

GM228 wrote: »

See S32 and 33 of the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act 2001.

Does 32(1)(c) apply to IS?

Are the Rupee notes taken out of circulation in India money?
Are old english pound notes money? Are Old scottish pound notes money?


Doesn't this section only refer to using counterfeit money in Ireland though?

Peregrinus

Carawaystick wrote: »

Does 32(1)(c) apply to IS?

Are the Rupee notes taken out of circulation in India money?
Are old english pound notes money? Are Old scottish pound notes money?

The offence is "making a counterfeit of a currency note or coin", but "currency note" and "coin" are defined to include only notes and coins issued or customarily used in Ireland or in another state. Forging banknotes which have already been demonetised (why would anyone even do this?) would not be covered, but forging Scottish pound notes would be, if they still circulate and are accepted in Scotland, which I think is the case.

As for IS, there are no special rules about IS. If an IS member makes a counterfeit of currency notes or coin, he has the same criminal liability as a non-IS member engaged in the same activity.

(Note that if IS - or anyone else - issues its own currency for use in the areas controlled by it, that's not covered. Issuing your own currency is not issuing a counterfeit of someone else's.)

Carawaystick wrote: »

Doesn't this section only refer to using counterfeit money in Ireland though?

Nope. Check out section 38

Second Toughest in_the Freshers

Peregrinus wrote: »

Forging banknotes which have already been demonetised (why would anyone even do this?) would not be covered, but forging Scottish pound notes would be, if they still circulate and are accepted in Scotland, which I think is the case.

huh, always wanted to print up a few old irish pound and five pound notes, maybe the whole series shur...

anyone got any hi-res images?

GM228

Peregrinus wrote: »

The offence is "making a counterfeit of a currency note or coin", but "currency note" and "coin" are defined to include only notes and coins issued or customarily used in Ireland or in another state. Forging banknotes which have already been demonetised (why would anyone even do this?) would not be covered, but forging Scottish pound notes would be, if they still circulate and are accepted in Scotland, which I think is the case.

There's nothing I can see that requires the currency to be the current legal tender and not demonetised.

The "lawfully issued" is enough to cover money out of circulation such as the Irish pound. The Irish poubd was lawfully issued notes and coins, being out of circulation does not change that or the qualifying criteria for the offence .

Also you must remember that in many countries just like the Irish pound the old money is never truely demonetised as you can still exchange Irish pounds for their equivilant Euro amount at the Central Bank, therefore they do hold monetry value.

I can't see why anyone would want to do so either, but it would still amount to counterfeit currency and be an offence.

Peregrinus

GM228 wrote: »

There's nothing I can see that requires the currency to be the current legal tender and not demonetised.

The "lawfully issued" is enough to cover money out of circulation such as the Irish pound. The Irish poubd was lawfully issued notes and coins, being out of circulation does not change that or the qualifying criteria for the offence .

I take your point. On the other hand, we must remember that as a penal provision this is going to be narrowly construed, and I don’t think a construction which would criminalise, say, making facsimiles of long-obsolete banknotes issues in in the eighteenth or nineteenth centuries, or facsimiles of banknotes issued by long-defunct states, or facsimile Anglo-Saxon or Roman coins, for example, is going to find favour with the courts. I think the courts might interpret “lawfully issued” to mean “lawfully in issue”, and not “lawfully issued when they were issued, however long ago that was”.

GM228 wrote: »

Also you must remember that in many countries just like the Irish pound the old money is never truely demonetised as you can still exchange Irish po
unds for their equivilant Euro amount at the Central Bank, therefore they do hold monetry value.

Anything that can be bought or sold “has monetary value”, but that’s not the test; the test is whether the thing is a note or coin “lawfully issued or customarily used as money”. It’s certainly true that Irish pound notes were lawfully issued as money, and for a long time were customarily used as money, and that goes back to the question already raised of whether historical issue/use is sufficient. But Irish pounds are not currently issued or used as money; they’re not legal tender, and they don’t circulate. The fact that you can redeem them for euros at the Central Bank isn’t, I think, enough to show that they are “issued or used as money”.

GM228 wrote: »

I can't see why anyone would want to do so either, but it would still amount to counterfeit currency and be an offence.

As to why anybody would want to do it, well, I feel a heist film coming on in which our antiheroes forge a bunch of defunct currency for the purpose of changing it into euro at the Central Bank of some obscure middle-European statelet. Because the currency is old it lacks the security features that enable detection of forgeries through technology. Scarlett Johansson plays the moll whose decolletage distracts the bank clerk at a time when he might otherwise be eyeballing the notes which she brings in to exchange.

I don’t think it’s going to be a very good film, though.

KingBrian2

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Abortion, drug dealing, Ivory trading & much much more. Irish citizens abroad seem to flout any existing laws in Ireland. You add to that the Dáil can't enforce these laws outside of Ireland and courts not sure if they put people on trial in absentia.

GM228

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Abortion, drug dealing, Ivory trading & much much more. Irish citizens abroad seem to flout any existing laws in Ireland. You add to that the Dáil can't enforce these laws outside of Ireland and courts not sure if they put people on trial in absentia.

We are talking about offences here even though the act is committed in another state, the above don't count.