Diversions to Shannon Airport

mattser

It seems every day there's another one. Today's was a man ' acting strangely ' on Air Canada Montreal to Frankfurt.
Have I not been noticing, or has this just escalated recently ?

Comhrá

Around six diversions over the past week or so. Mainly medical, one tech, one was a fatality on board.

I just wonder if airlines have become less vigilant when allowing passengers fly with serious health issues, or are people deciding to fly nowadays without giving due regard to their pre-existing conditions?

Last year saw a lot of medical diversions into Shannon by overflying craft, even more than other years, I'd say.

coylemj

tippman1 wrote: »

Around six diversions over the past week or so. Mainly medical, one tech, one was a fatality on board.

And blocked-up jacks ....

Flight diverted to Shannon so passengers could use toilets

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1226/841280-shannon-diverted-flight-toilets/

Shannon Airport handles six unscheduled landings

Emergency requests to land occurred between Christmas Eve and New Year’s Day.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/shannon-airport-handles-six-unscheduled-landings-1.2922977

kub

Well Shannon is listed as one of the diversion airports in The North Atlantic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversion_airport

Considering the amount of planes that pass over daily it is no surprise that this amount can occur every now and then.

Irish Steve

Shannon has Master diversion status, and it's one of the reasons why the Fire service and the like is as heavily staffed as it is, if the service there was based on only the scheduled flights, they would not have the numbers or the level of service that's available, and Shannon is also one of the longest runways available in this part of the world, which can be a significant factor for some types of problem. That diversion status is the reason why Shannon is open on Christmas Day, even though there are no scheduled flights due in or out, it's to provide that essential facility to the many flights that are still operating.

I can't remember which was the third airport, for a very long time, it was "accepted" that it would always be possible to get in to Shannon, or Prestwick, or No 3, (I think Keflavik but I'm not 100% sure), and in the days when aircraft had much shorter range and capability than the modern fleets do, the availability of these diversion airfields was critical to survival.

The modern traveller can't realistically envisage a situation where a westbound flight leaving Shannon for the East Coast would not know for up to 7 hours if it was going to be capable of getting there that day, there's very few mentions of "the point of no return" now, it doesn't apply to the modern jets in the same way, but in the days of things like DC4's and the like flying the Atlantic, there were days when you'd get so far, and have to turn tail and come back because the winds were too strong to allow you to get to the destination or an acceptable diversion airport with the remaining fuel, there were no such things as GPS or Flight Management systems that constantly gave you a position report accurate to a few metres, in those days, there were times when you were happy with a fix that was to the nearest 100 miles, there were no navigation aids at all for huge sections of the flight, and the full time navigator was an essential member of the crew, and the only way to get a position fix was to take a star sight and work out the position from that information, which depended on there being no cloud cover blocking the view of the night sky. Long haul flights in those days were a very different enterprise to the modern flights, if the winds en route were significantly different to what had been forecast, the result could mean a very different outcome to the flight.

Shannon still has a very significant role as a diversion airport, and also serves as an en route stop for significant numbers of smaller aircraft that can't get to their final destination without a fuel stop. The very small aircraft that are flying across the Atlantic tend to take a route via Scotland, Iceland and Greenland, as their range is even more limited.

martinsvi

Christmas is a busy period for hospital staff, number of emergency calls go up around this time of year. People over-eat, drink, forget about their medicine intake etc. It is also a very stressful time for many, so I'm not one bit surprised if the number of diversions go up

EchoIndia

It's also a slow news period during which such events are accorded more prominence by the media. Interestingly, when DUB gets such diversions they rarely merit a mention.

ScouseMouse

Irish Steve wrote: »

Shannon has Master diversion status, and it's one of the reasons why the Fire service and the like is as heavily staffed as it is, if the service there was based on only the scheduled flights, they would not have the numbers or the level of service that's available, and Shannon is also one of the longest runways available in this part of the world, which can be a significant factor for some types of problem. That diversion status is the reason why Shannon is open on Christmas Day, even though there are no scheduled flights due in or out, it's to provide that essential facility to the many flights that are still operating.

I can't remember which was the third airport, for a very long time, it was "accepted" that it would always be possible to get in to Shannon, or Prestwick, or No 3, (I think Keflavik but I'm not 100% sure), and in the days when aircraft had much shorter range and capability than the modern fleets do, the availability of these diversion airfields was critical to survival.

The modern traveller can't realistically envisage a situation where a westbound flight leaving Shannon for the East Coast would not know for up to 7 hours if it was going to be capable of getting there that day, there's very few mentions of "the point of no return" now, it doesn't apply to the modern jets in the same way, but in the days of things like DC4's and the like flying the Atlantic, there were days when you'd get so far, and have to turn tail and come back because the winds were too strong to allow you to get to the destination or an acceptable diversion airport with the remaining fuel, there were no such things as GPS or Flight Management systems that constantly gave you a position report accurate to a few metres, in those days, there were times when you were happy with a fix that was to the nearest 100 miles, there were no navigation aids at all for huge sections of the flight, and the full time navigator was an essential member of the crew, and the only way to get a position fix was to take a star sight and work out the position from that information, which depended on there being no cloud cover blocking the view of the night sky. Long haul flights in those days were a very different enterprise to the modern flights, if the winds en route were significantly different to what had been forecast, the result could mean a very different outcome to the flight.

Shannon still has a very significant role as a diversion airport, and also serves as an en route stop for significant numbers of smaller aircraft that can't get to their final destination without a fuel stop. The very small aircraft that are flying across the Atlantic tend to take a route via Scotland, Iceland and Greenland, as their range is even more limited.

That is a fantastic assessment and easily followed. Thanks

faceman

Irish Steve wrote: »

Shannon has Master diversion status, and it's one of the reasons why the Fire service and the like is as heavily staffed as it is, if the service there was based on only the scheduled flights, they would not have the numbers or the level of service that's available, and Shannon is also one of the longest runways available in this part of the world, which can be a significant factor for some types of problem. That diversion status is the reason why Shannon is open on Christmas Day, even though there are no scheduled flights due in or out, it's to provide that essential facility to the many flights that are still operating.

I can't remember which was the third airport, for a very long time, it was "accepted" that it would always be possible to get in to Shannon, or Prestwick, or No 3, (I think Keflavik but I'm not 100% sure), and in the days when aircraft had much shorter range and capability than the modern fleets do, the availability of these diversion airfields was critical to survival.

The modern traveller can't realistically envisage a situation where a westbound flight leaving Shannon for the East Coast would not know for up to 7 hours if it was going to be capable of getting there that day, there's very few mentions of "the point of no return" now, it doesn't apply to the modern jets in the same way, but in the days of things like DC4's and the like flying the Atlantic, there were days when you'd get so far, and have to turn tail and come back because the winds were too strong to allow you to get to the destination or an acceptable diversion airport with the remaining fuel, there were no such things as GPS or Flight Management systems that constantly gave you a position report accurate to a few metres, in those days, there were times when you were happy with a fix that was to the nearest 100 miles, there were no navigation aids at all for huge sections of the flight, and the full time navigator was an essential member of the crew, and the only way to get a position fix was to take a star sight and work out the position from that information, which depended on there being no cloud cover blocking the view of the night sky. Long haul flights in those days were a very different enterprise to the modern flights, if the winds en route were significantly different to what had been forecast, the result could mean a very different outcome to the flight.

Shannon still has a very significant role as a diversion airport, and also serves as an en route stop for significant numbers of smaller aircraft that can't get to their final destination without a fuel stop. The very small aircraft that are flying across the Atlantic tend to take a route via Scotland, Iceland and Greenland, as their range is even more limited.

Without trying to go too much off topic in relation to the routing, when I'm on US West coast flight on a 330, it generally follows a path over certain parts of Greenland. However I've been on a 747 where it has taken a path over mainland US and that our over the ocean. Is that ETOPS related?

Rawr

faceman wrote: »

Without trying to go too much off topic in relation to the routing, when I'm on US West coast flight on a 330, it generally follows a path over certain parts of Greenland. However I've been on a 747 where it has taken a path over mainland US and that our over the ocean. Is that ETOPS related?

Can be that the airline wanted to avoid Canadian airspace. It costs more for clearance across Canada than across the US.

Back on topic. I've often wondered, what kind of medical facilities do Shannon have? Do they have a full blown hospital there, or do they have to ship everyone over to Limerick?

kub

Rawr wrote: »

Can be that the airline wanted to avoid Canadian airspace. It costs more for clearance across Canada than across the US.

Back on topic. I've often wondered, what kind of medical facilities do Shannon have? Do they have a full blown hospital there, or do they have to ship everyone over to Limerick?

All media reports have mentioned ambulances being called to the airport and sick etc, passengers being transferred to hospital in Limerick.

There is no hospital in Shannon airport, besides if there was the queue would be out the door

Irish Steve

Without knowing the destinations and departures, it's hard to be precise, for the West Coast, the shortest route is a great circle that goes over Greenland, a good way North, but there are days when the prevailing winds will make it appropriate to take a different but longer route to avoid the delay that would otherwise occur. If there is poor weather over the Rockies, then it would not be that much out of the way to take a path down the west coast off shore, and the other factor that might be an influence is the traffic density, ATC may have routed flights away from areas to keep things moving freely, it's usually better to take a longer route rather than put people into holds awaiting clearance.

There are also considerations for the 330 related to ETOPS operation, which can affect the track used.

If the jet stream over the Atlantic is in the Northern part of the ocean, then the routes westbound will be moved to try and avoid the strongest winds, as they can on occasions be in excess of 100 Kts, which can very much spoil your day in terms of fuel burn and total time en route. You may have noticed Air Canada (and other airline) 757's in Shannon on occasions, they are in for fuel, because they can't make the trip without it, due to the flight distance and weather affecting the route.

As an example, the great circle to Dallas, in Texas, from Gatwick is also a good way north over Greenland, and then passes over Chicago, I did a trip on that route many years ago on a BA DC10, (pre 9-11, so flight deck visits were the norm). What made it more interesting was in discussion we noted that there was a restriction on the chart on how far north over Greenland the DC10 could operate, and when the flight engineer went digging into the manuals to find out why, we discovered that it was an issue related to crew emergency oxygen, the flight deck generators are not capable of providing enough oxygen to get clear of the coast of Greenland before descending to FL100, as the high ground is around 17,000 Ft, so even if a descent was started, if the cabin had depressurised, there was not enough Oxygen to get to the coast. I don't think that restriction applies to either the 330 or the 747, I do know the 747 does not use Oxygen generators, but I don't know what the duration of the cylinders is.

To get an idea. there's a web site that can be used to show where the great circle routes go, for example

http://www.greatcirclemapper.net/en/great-circle-mapper.html?route=EIDW-KLAX&aircraft=&speed=

gives an idea of the route used from Dublin to Los Angeles, but that will vary depending on weather.

durandal01

Wasn't Shannon also a designated emergency landing strip if the Space shuttle had to abort its launch flight over the Atlantic?

BZ

durandal01 wrote: »

Wasn't Shannon also a designated emergency landing strip if the Space shuttle had to abort its launch flight over the Atlantic?

It was indeed.

arubex

Irish Steve wrote: »

Shannon has Master diversion status

I hadn't heard of that temrinology outside the RAF ( Manston, Valley, Leeming, Macrihanish and St Mawgan were their MDAs, as an aside ).

Is it an ICAO designation or something the civilian airport adopts and advertises for itself?

Irish Steve

arubex wrote: »

I hadn't heard of that temrinology outside the RAF ( Manston, Valley, Leeming, Macrihanish and St Mawgan were their MDAs, as an aside ).

Is it an ICAO designation or something the civilian airport adopts and advertises for itself?

I don't for sure know, it was a phrase that came up a long time ago when going through the unique torture of Slattery's Academy in order to get through the loops and hoops of the CPL and ATPL exams in Ireland in the days before multiple choice and EASA exams, there were subjects and aspects of the syllabus back then that were seriously complex, but that was how the system was in those days. We had some fun doing it. but it was damned hard work to get through them. And yes, I was aware of the RAF designation, at the time I just presumed that it had been applied to the "core" diversion airfields that were used for civilian traffic.

Borzoi

Irish Steve wrote: »

Shannon has Master diversion status, and it's one of the reasons why the Fire service and the like is as heavily staffed as it is, if the service there was based on only the scheduled flights, they would not have the numbers or the level of service that's available, and Shannon is also one of the longest runways available in this part of the world, which can be a significant factor for some types of problem. That diversion status is the reason why Shannon is open on Christmas Day, even though there are no scheduled flights due in or out, it's to provide that essential facility to the many flights that .

I found out recently that my mother had a role in one such diversion. Back in the mid 50s my father got a telegram to tell him to collect my mother from Shannon airport, she'd be coming home from New York. It was over Christmas but I'm not sure if it was Christmas Day. He borrows a car and heads down from Dublin. Gets to Shannon, checks arrival board, no arrivals due from the US. He asks around, nothing due. But as he pondered what to to, a TWA flight bound for Paris made an unscheduled stop, and one passenger gets off, my mother. She worked for TWA in New York, and was friendly with the trans Atlantic pilots, so one had made it his business to get her home for Christmas!

mattser

Borzoi wrote: »

I found out recently that my mother had a role in one such diversion. Back in the mid 50s my father got a telegram to tell him to collect my mother from Shannon airport, she'd be coming home from New York. It was over Christmas but I'm not sure if it was Christmas Day. He borrows a car and heads down from Dublin. Gets to Shannon, checks arrival board, no arrivals due from the US. He asks around, nothing due. But as he pondered what to to, a TWA flight bound for Paris made an unscheduled stop, and one passenger gets off, my mother. She worked for TWA in New York, and was friendly with the trans Atlantic pilots, so one had made it his business to get her home for Christmas!

First week of the new year, and I doubt I'll hear a better story. :D None of today's PC **** in the 50's.