Is how you lose important?

wonderfullife

TL;DR warning

I was reading an article by Ben Fowlkes (MMAJunkie) which was discussing how fighters handle a defeat. Does it matter?

He singled out Conor for how he took his loss at UFC 196 as an example of how to lose graciously and, of course, Dominick Cruz's inspirational post-fight press conference the other night.

For anybody who missed Cruz's interview, watch it. It's pretty motivating. At the very end he was asked by Ariel Helwani why he was standing for the entire interview and he said:

"Why would I sit down? I'm always on my feet".

Which to me was another way of saying - 'Yeah, I just got beat, but I refuse to be defeated'. Pretty inspiring message for anyone in life.

(I'm sure Gamebred has a GIF of him on his backside after being dropped )

I wanted to take a look and see how other high profile names handled some of their losses and see if it's possible to draw any conclusions from it. I'm going to look at immediate post-fight quotes, their next fights from a financial standpoint and the overall arc of career. It won't be easy to draw any conclusions.


GSP v Matt Serra, UFC 69, 7/4/07

"I just lost the title, I just lost - period - I'm not used to that. I hate to lose but I have to regroup, change some stuff and come back stronger. I was a bit stiff - but I have no excuses by the way, I just lost. I want to say thanks to my fans. Stick with me. I'll be back stronger"

After GSP lost to Serra, his next headliner was UFC 79 against Matt Hughes, where he made a flat $210,000 (up from his previous $70k/$70k show/win money).

UFC 69 - 400,000 PPV buys
UFC 79 - 650,000 PPV buys.

GSP went 12-0 in his next 12 fights.


Brock Lesnar v Frank Mir, UFC 81, 2/2/08 (1st defeat).

Lesnar showed no humility in defeat. He 100% (rightly or wrongly) blamed the ref, Steve Mazzagatti, for standing them up for an 'illegal' strike to the back of the head when he felt close to finishing Mir.

"Mazzagatti was a fcuking dickhead. He should have been thrown out of the fcuking arena. I'd like to punch his fcuking moustache right off his face."

Lesnar made a flat $250,000 for the Mir loss and a flat $500,000 in his next PPV headliner against Heath Herring.

UFC 81 - 600,000 PPV buys
UFC 87 - 650,000 PPV buys

Lesnar went on 4-2-0-1 in his remaining UFC fights (4 wins, 2 losses, 1 No contest).


Anderson Silva v Chris Weidman, UFC 162,

"I always say that I do my best and I feel tonight I did my best. My gameplan didn't work tonight, I can't make any excuses. This is not the first time I've lost in my life. I'll never go out there to lose, obviously you always want to win but the best fighters in the world are in the UFC and Chris is one of them".

Silva made a flat $600,000 for UFC 162 and the same flat $600,000 for UFC 168.

UFC 162 - 550,000 PPV buys
UFC 168 - 1,025,000 PPV buys.

He went 0-4-0-1 in his next UFC fights (4 losses, 1 No-Contest).


Cain Velasquez v Fabricio Werdum, UFC 188, 13/6/15

"Fabricio was the better guy tonight. I was here 2 weeks early to acclimatise but (the elevation) is not the reason I lost. Fabricio had better technique, he was more relaxed than me and he fought very well. You live and you learn."

Cain's payout for UFC 188 was undisclosed, he made $300,000 for his next (non-headline appearance at UFC 200).


Jose Aldo v Conor McGregor, UFC 194, 11/12/15

"So, there wasn’t even a fight, right? Only 13 seconds. And I also remember when I came in, how I tried to punch. But, man, it’s hard to say now if it’s (his) success or (my) mistake. It’s a sport, we have to accept. Not only from wins you live your life. That makes us stronger. Way stronger. You can be sure that we will come back stronger, more champion than I was before"

Aldo showed a mixture of emotions and reactions in his interviews with Combate in the days after UFC 194. While initially showing some sort of humility, he dialed that down in the weeks following the loss.

Aldo made $500,000 (flat) for the McGregor loss and secured $500,000 for his UFC 200 victory against Frankie Edgar ($400,000 show/$100,000 win).


Ronda Rousey v Holly Holm, 15/11/15

"Honestly, my thought in the medical room, I was sitting in the corner and was like, 'What am I anymore if I'm not this?'. Literally sitting there thinking about killing myself. In that exact second, I'm like, 'I'm nothing. What do I do anymore? No one gives a s--- about me anymore without this."

Ronda's reported salary for UFC 193 was a mind-boggling $165,000 (wut!) + PPV points. Her disclosed payout for UFC 207 was $3,000,000 + PPV points.

UFC 193 - 1.1 million PPV buys
UFC 207 - Too soon but the best early guesstimate is 750,000 (based on google search trends, Embedded views, other metrics used to gauge interest levels in a fight card).


Conor McGregor v Nate Diaz, 5/3/16

"This is the game: We win some, we lose some, but I will never shy away from a challenge, and I will never shy away from defeat. This is part of the game. I am happy to come out there, continue to stay in this fight. I had many chances to not do this and sit and wait, but I went in, and I took a fight, and it didn’t pay off. This is the fight business. It’s another day, and I’ll come back.

McGregor was paid a disclosed $1 million + PPV points for the loss and a disclosed $3 million + PPV points for the Diaz rematch in August.

UFC 196 PPV - 1.6 million buys
UFC 202 PPV - 1.65 million buys



Right, so what do we make of all that?

Here's my thoughts and feel free to add your own below (obviously lol.):

The 3 stand-outs on that list are probably Lesnar, Aldo and Rousey.

What they share in common is that none of them blamed themselves (publicly) for the defeat and none of them were particularly humble or gracious after the loss.

Lesnar went on a rant about the ref.
Aldo basically implied it was a lucky punch from a clown.
Rousey showed Holly no respect and talked about ending her life.

So, did being a sore-loser/cry-baby matter?

It's a hard question to answer because all were at different stages in terms of their skillset, their career, their ages, motivations and all returned after different length of lay-offs.

Lesnar and Aldo got back in the Octagon within 7 months. Neither man saw a dip in their earnings and both men were victorious in their comebacks. There's a case to be made that both men were given a favourable return fight. Whilst Heath Herring was very good, it was still an easier match-up for Lesnar than pitching him in with Couture. Whilst Frankie Edgar is clearly very good, it was an opponent Aldo had beaten before - which must be good from a confidence standpoint.

Ronda took a year out and whilst we can only guess, the word is she used a lot of that time dedicated to her training. However, circumstances robbed her of an easier opponent for her comeback. If Miesha Tate had sat out UFC 200, I believe we'd have seen an easier match-up for Ronda to return to, much like Edgar was for Aldo. Chances are she'd have done what Aldo did too - win handily.

Coming back to face Nunes was no picnic - even if she was mentally sound. All we can base our thinking from is her interview with Ellen mentioning suicide. Amanda may have just destroyed her either which way.

Her pay went from a frankly insulting $165,000 + PPV to a whopping $3 million (which is borderline insulting to Conor, given he delivered 5.95 million PPV's in her absence). The PPV numbers for UFC 207 are looking decent but disappointing and the gate receipts likewise - V. good but not amazing. So, her media blackout saw her salary increase hugely and her PPV numbers seemingly drop.

GSP, Anderson Silva, Cain and Conor all showed laudable humility after they tasted their first high-profile defeat. Again, drawing a conclusion or pattern isn't easy for the same reasons I mentioned above.

In general, though, all of their pay-levels went UP. Their PPV buy-rates, in general, went UP. Their popularity either went UP or showed no (immediate) noticeable dips.

One conclusion a fair-minded person can draw is that the public seem to relate to someone who is a gracious-loser far more than they can relate to a sore-loser. We watch fights to be entertained, sure, but we also watch fights to be motivated. Being a good loser and vowing to come back stronger is generally more inspiring than taking your ball and running off home with it.

I think it's safe to say whether you own your defeat or come out guns blazing blaming others, the one thing that matters is you come out and talk.

Media silence, sulking and hiding didn't work for Ronda or the UFC judging by the gate receipts for UFC 207 or the early projected PPV numbers. It should have been a slam-dunk to get a $5/6 million gate and 1m+ PPV from this fight, if promoted correctly, instead they came up short.

If she wants to fight again, her next move is crucial. If she wants to retire, how she handles that could be crucial to her career.

In summation, I think being gracious after a loss is the best way for a fighter to grow - both on a personal level and a popularity level. Conor, GSP and Cain went a combined 15-0 since their losses. That might be pure coincidence and an irrelevant statistic because GSP is responsible for 12 of those wins. Anderson Silva had a dreadful run after his first Weidman loss but his age and his horrific leg-break has to be considered a factor in that.

It certainly appears that owning their defeats and (mostly) blaming their own deficiencies seemed to be helpful for their career progressions.

Popularity wise, the above-named "gracious-losers" all saw their popularity increase after a loss. GSP went from strength to strength. Conor likewise. Anderson Silva got a huge cheer at UFC 200, despite a run of defeats, and Cain remains one of the most popular heavyweights on the roster.

It's also worth pointing out that they all showed it's possible to be gracious and blame themselves whilst also sneaking in the odd 'excuse'. GSP blamed stiffness, Conor blamed energy inefficiency, Anderson blamed poor execution of gameplan, Cain hinted at altitude. It is kinda funny to hear someone make a tiny excuse and then say "I make no excuses" but we forgive that because they are taking the defeat on the chin.

It can also be productive to be a sore-loser - as evidenced by Brock Lesnar's defeat to Mir - if it's handled correctly. Lesnar blamed the ref, not himself, and perhaps for him it was the best way to grow as a fighter. He returned and went on a hot streak of 4-0. His popularity surged after his defeat and he kept it going in victory.

So the lesson could be this:

Whether you want to be classy or a complete dcik after a defeat might be irrelevant as long as you DO SOMETHING quickly after a loss and do it publicly. Don't be a do-nothing-b1tch - it won't help your popularity, fanbase or future career.

Ronda did nothing with the media, effectively, for her entire absence. She did nothing about her coach, Edmond, despite mounting evidence he was harming her career. She did nothing to promote the fight, which seems to have hurt the performance of the fight from a business standpoint. Perhaps worst of all, she seemingly did nothing to improve her footwork or head movement.

That's probably the biggest irony of the entire situation. Ronda built her persona by complaining about DNB's and, ultimately, it was doing nothing herself that's played a role in her downfall.

brinty

Eh pedantic I know but Cain's first high profile defeat was to jds who sparked him in 64/69 seconds,fight was free to air
He came back and beat the hell outta of jds two in a row before lose to werdum

Outlaw Pete

Yeah, it matters.

Some of the crap fighters have come out with is just laughable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLH-lKWH89g

wonderfullife

brinty wrote: »

Eh pedantic I know but Cain's first high profile defeat was to jds who sparked him in 64/69 seconds,fight was free to air
He came back and beat the hell outta of jds two in a row before lose to werdum

You're right I was just focusing the whole piece on their highest profile PPV defeats so I could contrast them properly with numbers Otherwise I'd have gone back to Matt Hughes, JDS, Joe Duffy, Yushin Okami respectively.

brinty

wonderfullife wrote:

You're right I was just focusing the whole piece on their highest profile PPV defeats so I could contrast them properly with numbers Otherwise I'd have gone back to Matt Hughes, JDS, Joe Duffy, Yushin Okami respectively.

Fair points
And TBH I think the JDS one wE free to air as it was first time on Fox if I recall

califano

Interesting points. Chael Sonnen would have been a good one to put in there?

califano

I believe post fight excuses is largely linked to how one is brought up and the level of family grounding one has had. Especially in ones formative years.

midnight city

I think people have more respect for sportsmen who can lose well. I think Cruz and Conor lost well. Nate Diaz can't even admit he lost to Conor in the 2nd fight. Both Nate and Nick never seem to accept losses. That makes me think they are liars. Ronda.. well that is another level of bad loser altogether.