Looking at mitsubishi outlander phev and hyundai niro

KELTICKNIGHTT

looking at mitsubishi outlander phev and hyundai niro
leaning towards niro at moment abit
be first hybrid , do a good bit of driving ,limerick ,cork to dublin couple times a week , rest time local
whats your experience of these 2 i picked, pros and cons , which one better

steelboots

If your doing a lot of motorway driving not sure a hybrid is the best solution. In my opinion hybrids are better suited where you're doing considerable amount of town/city driving. When your on the open motorway your running on petrol carrying the extra weight of the batterys.  Even though I don't like diesels I suspect they are the best for your usage. I assume your talking about the Hundai IONIQ, in which case comparing the Outlander to the IONIQ is a bit like comparing apples and oranges, there two different classes of car.

KELTICKNIGHTT

steelboots wrote: »

If your doing a lot of motorway driving not sure a hybrid is the best solution. In my opinion hybrids are better suited where you're doing considerable amount of town/city driving. When your on the open motorway your running on petrol carrying the extra weight of the batterys.  Even though I don't like diesels I suspect they are the best for your usage. I assume your talking about the Hundai IONIQ, in which case comparing the Outlander to the IONIQ is a bit like comparing apples and oranges, there two different classes of car.

Cheers for that
At moment do motorway miles but that change towards third quarter of next year when I be doing all local mileage. So was looking at both of these .is maintance high with hybrids

yannakis

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

looking at mitsubishi outlander phev and hyundai niro

You probably mean Kia Niro :pac: :pac:

KELTICKNIGHTT

YanisK wrote: »

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

looking at mitsubishi outlander phev and hyundai niro

You probably mean Kia Niro :pac: :pac:

I'm stand corrected
Yes I was
Like the phev

yannakis

The Outlander, is a completely different category from the Niro. Purchased new, it's about double the price of Niro.

And you get about 35 miles on batteries, plus speeds up to 110km/h before the engine kicks in.

KELTICKNIGHTT

YanisK wrote: »

The Outlander, is a completely different category from the Niro. Purchased new, it's about double the price of Niro.

And you get about 35 miles on batteries, plus speeds up to 110km/h before the engine kicks in.

Outlander is better of the two . What maintenance like with hybrid

DublinDilbert

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

Outlander is better of the two . What maintenance like with hybrid

Very little maintenance, especially if most of your driving is in an urban environment. Power delivery is so smooth very little wear and tare on other parts too.

If your doing lots of long runs, hybrid won't really suit ya. If your in traffic or doing urban driving, with the odd long run, hybrid is a dream.

Outlander phev are very good value in the U.K.

KELTICKNIGHTT

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Very little maintenance, especially if most of your driving is in an urban environment. Power delivery is so smooth very little wear and tare on other parts too.

If your doing lots of long runs, hybrid won't really suit ya. If your in traffic or doing urban driving, with the odd long run, hybrid is a dream.

Outlander phev are very good value in the U.K.

cheers for that, the outlander suits me good,
thanks

goz83

The Niro phev is not yet available. I wasn't impressed with the niro at all tbh. Mywife, who knows nothing about cars even commented on the "cheap look" of the niro and the Kia range in general. The new models seem to have taken a dive in quality and a hike in price.

I sat into the outlander (non phev, as there was none in stock) and I loved it. It felt like the right car for me. If only the price was more attractive. 50k is not small change. The outlander is a potential on my list though, including the phev if the sums add up.

yannakis

goz83 wrote: »

I sat into the outlander (non phev, as there was none in stock) and I loved it. It felt like the right car for me. If only the price was more attractive. 50k is not small change. The outlander is a potential on my list though, including the phev if the sums add up.

There are a few 2-3 year old ones around 15k GBP which means you can have it rolling with IE plates for less than 20k. :pac:

cros13

The Outlander PHEV is the one to go for.

Again if you are looking for value there are a ton coming off lease in the UK ATM due to the preferential BIK in the UK for PHEVs.

goz83

YanisK wrote: »

There are a few 2-3 year old ones around 15k GBP which means you can have it rolling with IE plates for less than 20k. :pac:

I will most likely be bringing in a 6-12 month old model. Having done a fair bit of looking into them, it seems the new model has quite a few improvements over the old one and I should be able to land one here for not much more than 30k.

I will bide my time and wait for one that I like.

cros13

Don't wait too long... the extra supply of PHEV Outlanders in the UK will come to an end fairly quickly.

The 0% BIK rate that's causing it was pulled for PHEVs in early 2016.

goz83

cros13 wrote: »

Don't wait too long... the extra supply of PHEV Outlanders in the UK will come to an end fairly quickly.

The 0% BIK rate that's causing it was pulled for PHEVs in early 2016.

I'm not in a position to buy yet unfortunately. I'm sure something will come along

KCross

goz83 wrote: »

I will most likely be bringing in a 6-12 month old model. Having done a fair bit of looking into them, it seems the new model has quite a few improvements over the old one and I should be able to land one here for not much more than 30k.

I will bide my time and wait for one that I like.

If you have it at hand, can you list the differences between them (or at least the big ones) and when the change occurred?

Was the new model in late 2015 and 2016?

I see some of them are listed in the ads as GX3h and GX4h. Is that a trim level?


Anyone on here have one? What are the real world EV range figures and do they give any trouble?

goz83

Off the top of my head, the facelift model was late 2015. It comes with the bumper "shield" (chrome trim).

There was improvement with the petrol generator which made a horrible noise when kicking in. Noise in general was improved in the new model. Improved suspension too.

The GX3H and GX4H (H for hybrid) are correctly trim levels. The 4 comes with leather seats and 7" touch screen sat nav, reversing camera and 360 degree all round camera. There is a GX5 which comes with all the unnecessary safety extras......like lane assist and all the beeping that goes with it. That's all that comes to mind right now.

edited to add, the rear light were changed from those awful lexus style clear lights, to regular red.

n97 mini

Good info on the Outlander PHEV here. The devil is in the detail though and you have to remember on the motorway once your battery is depleted you have a 2.0-litre petrol moving quite a heavy vehicle. The text says "30-40mpg" but I doubt that 40 is close to realistic.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/mitsubishi/outlander-phev-2014/

zilog_jones

That article says:

You can expect 30-40mpg from the PHEV if the battery is flat, because the engine is not only moving this two-tonne car about, but charging the massive battery too.

I think that's a bit misleading, as it's not going to charge the battery significantly unless you put it in "Battery Charge Mode" which is never going to be good for fuel consumption - this mode is only really useful in certain situations, e.g. if you're approaching steep hills with a low state of charge, and want to use the combined power of the ICE and electric motors.

I'm not too familiar with the Outlander but assume when it's in the normal hybrid mode it will only maintain a low state of charge for moderate assistance, and not have the ICE idling all the time just to charge the battery. On my Prius Plug-in, in Hybrid mode it will only start the ICE for charging once it goes down to about 20-23% SOC, and stop before it gets to 30% (which somewhat replicates the battery capacity of a standard Prius).

Some real world figures here:

• https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/overview/31-Mitsubishi/280-Outlander.html?fueltype=6&powerunit=2 - 4.16 l/100km or 68 MPG (unfortunately a small amount of those have invalid data)
• http://www.fuelly.com/car/mitsubishi/outlander?engineconfig_id=653&bodytype_id=&submodel_id= - 4.79 l/100km or 59 MPG

Of course, with a PHEV your average fuel consumption will vary significantly depending on how much of your driving you can do in EV mode.

bk

zilog_jones wrote: »

That article says:

I think that's a bit misleading, as it's not going to charge the battery significantly unless you put it in "Battery Charge Mode" which is never going to be good for fuel consumption - this mode is only really useful in certain situations, e.g. if you're approaching steep hills with a low state of charge, and want to use the combined power of the ICE and electric motors.

I think the idea for this mode is more aimed at cities who might ban or otherwise limit Diesel and ICE cars in the city center.

The idea is you charge the battery on the motorway and then swtich to battery only mode when you get into the city center. Thus reducing local pollution.

Not a bad idea, but questionable if people would actually use it.

n97 mini

zilog_jones wrote: »

That article says:



I think that's a bit misleading, as it's not going to charge the battery significantly unless you put it in "Battery Charge Mode" which is never going to be good for fuel consumption - this mode is only really useful in certain situations, e.g. if you're approaching steep hills with a low state of charge, and want to use the combined power of the ICE and electric motors.

I'm not too familiar with the Outlander but assume when it's in the normal hybrid mode it will only maintain a low state of charge for moderate assistance, and not have the ICE idling all the time just to charge the battery. On my Prius Plug-in, in Hybrid mode it will only start the ICE for charging once it goes down to about 20-23% SOC, and stop before it gets to 30% (which somewhat replicates the battery capacity of a standard Prius).

Some real world figures here:

• https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/overview/31-Mitsubishi/280-Outlander.html?fueltype=6&powerunit=2 - 4.16 l/100km or 68 MPG (unfortunately a small amount of those have invalid data)
• http://www.fuelly.com/car/mitsubishi/outlander?engineconfig_id=653&bodytype_id=&submodel_id= - 4.79 l/100km or 59 MPG

Of course, with a PHEV your average fuel consumption will vary significantly depending on how much of your driving you can do in EV mode.

I was talking about motorway driving, which is when it will be at its worst, same as any hybrid. Of course motorway economy can be improved by stopping to plug in. A quick google shows people getting 28 to 25 mpg without plugging in.

yannakis

n97 mini wrote: »

I was talking about motorway driving, which is when it will be at its worst, same as any hybrid. Of course motorway economy can be improved by stopping to plug in. A quick google shows people getting 28 to 25 mpg without plugging in.

Let's also mention the 150+ MPG when driving on battery only to be on the fair side.. Both extreme lows and extreme highs are part of the equation anyway. What matters is to get a car that matches your needs.

For example, if you commute 20-30km each way and can charge the Outlander at work, you'll forget when was the last time you were at a gas station

goz83

Wigglebuttman wrote: »

Let's also mention the 150+ MPG when driving on battery only to be on the fair side.. Both extreme lows and extreme highs are part of the equation anyway. What matters is to get a car that matches your needs.

For example, if you commute 20-30km each way and can charge the Outlander at work, you'll forget when was the last time you were at a gas station

THIS.

If I had an outlander phev, almost all driving would be in EV mode. I would start to worry about the petrol going off in the tank

unkel

I'm sure it's a fine car but the RRP of the Outlander PHEV is almost €50k. That's a lot of money (twice the price of a fully electric Ioniq). And indeed almost twice the price of the Niro :eek:

Now of course their resale drops like a brick in the first year or two in the UK (like a Leaf) so you can import one second hand and not pay VRT. Or can you? Anyone know the OMSP of a 1 year old, 2 year old and 3 year old one?

n97 mini

unkel wrote: »

I'm sure it's a fine car but the RRP of the Outlander PHEV is almost €50k. That's a lot of money (twice the price of a fully electric Ioniq). And indeed almost twice the price of the Niro :eek:

Now of course their resale drops like a brick in the first year or two in the UK (like a Leaf) so you can import one second hand and not pay VRT. Or can you? Anyone know the OMSP of a 1 year old, 2 year old and 3 year old one?

Check the Revenue website... Even the oldest will incur some VRT. Not a lot though, between depreciation and reduced VRT they still work out cheaper than a diesel Rav4.

n97 mini

goz83 wrote: »

THIS.

If I had an outlander phev, almost all driving would be in EV mode. I would start to worry about the petrol going off in the tank

At a real range of a bit more than 20 miles per charge you'd want to be only using it to go Mass..

unkel

n97 mini wrote: »

Check the Revenue website... Even the oldest will incur some VRT. Not a lot though

Spot on!

2016 OMSP €39k VRT €3.2k (14%)
2015 OMSP €35k VRT €2.9k (14%)
2014 OMSP €30k VRT €2.4k (14%)

So there is no €5,000 VRT discount for PHEV then, like there is for BEV?

n97 mini

PHEVs incur the same VRT rebates as hybrids. They're not zero emissions...

n97 mini

unkel wrote: »

Spot on!

2016 OMSP €39k VRT €3.2k (14%)
2015 OMSP €35k VRT €2.9k (14%)
2014 OMSP €30k VRT €2.4k (14%)

So there is no €5,000 VRT discount for PHEV then, like there is for BEV?

As my post above, 14% of 39k is 5460. Minus rebate is 3.2k.

goz83

n97 mini wrote: »

At a real range of a bit more than 20 miles per charge you'd want to be only using it to go Mass..

More, or less. Journeys are usually very short.

It would be great if they launched a full electric version. Even with a lower than leaf range, I would be all over it.

unkel

I doubt they will. Back 7 years ago the first EV (Leaf) owners were happy enough with 120-130km range, today I'd say the only person that would be interested to buy a 80km range BEV Outlander would be you

n97 mini

goz83 wrote: »

More, or less. Journeys are usually very short.

It would be great if they launched a full electric version. Even with a lower than leaf range, I would be all over it.

You'd still spend more time plugged in than driving!

(The Outlander can "fast" charge on Chademo but it's still ridiculously slow, at around a third the rate of a first gen Leaf)

bk

n97 mini wrote: »

At a real range of a bit more than 20 miles per charge you'd want to be only using it to go Mass..

The average daily distance travelled in Ireland is just 27km

n97 mini wrote: »

You'd still spend more time plugged in than driving!

(The Outlander can "fast" charge on Chademo but it's still ridiculously slow, at around a third the rate of a first gen Leaf)

Well, you would assume they would also upgrade the charger if they went full EV. Note Mitsubishi is now largely owned by Nissan, so they certainly have the tech.

n97 mini

bk wrote: »

The average daily distance travelled in Ireland is just 27km

That doesn't mean everyone is doing it though. Cars which don't do more than school runs or trips to mass are included in that which would be dragging down the average. I'd imagine most commuters would average more.

bk wrote: »

Well, you would assume they would also upgrade the charger if they went full EV. Note Mitsubishi is now largely owned by Nissan, so they certainly have the tech.

Or it could go the other way. Chademo is missing from the Outlander in some markets, eg US and Australia, meaning 4 hours charging for 20 or 30 minutes of driving.

bk

n97 mini wrote: »

That doesn't mean everyone is doing it though. Cars which don't do more than school runs or trips to mass are included in that which would be dragging down the average. I'd imagine most commuters would average more.

Err.. obviously, that is what the word average means!

But that is my point, lots, if not most people actually travel very little most days. I see a queue of SUV's outside my local school every morning. I can guarantee they haven't driven more then one or two km to get there (Dublin City school).

There is a lot, if not most people who drive just 10 or 20km a day. For them a PHEV can be great. Allows them to still have the big heavy SUV that they seem to badly want, but still allows them to run it cheaply day to day, with very little or no local emissions.

Not everyone is commuting 150km to work everyday, in fact such people are in the minority. You also need vehicles for the people who aren't driving much every day, the sunday drivers to mass, etc.

PHEV's certainly do have a place for now, at least until battery technology advances a hell of a lot more and becomes a hell of a lot cheaper.

n97 mini

If you had an EV and found yourself queuing behind PHEVs using fast charge points very slowly to get a 20 mile charge in the same time you can get a 100 mile charge you'd probably eventually conclude that as electric vehicles their place is very limited.

They'd be great if they'd just stay off the public FCPs.

liamog

Twice I've seen a 330e using the AC on the fast charger at Blanch.

There is an SCP one spot to the right, but I think the owner is worried somebody will steal his cable.

bk

n97 mini wrote: »

If you had an EV and found yourself queuing behind PHEVs using fast charge points very slowly to get a 20 mile charge in the same time you can get a 100 mile charge you'd probably eventually conclude that as electric vehicles their place is very limited.

They'd be great if they'd just stay off the public FCPs.

This criticism I fully understand. I'd never dream of charging a PHEV outside of my home. It is a downright anti-social thing to do.

A fair charging structure for public charging would sort that.

slicedpanman

liamog wrote: »

Twice I've seen a 330e using the AC on the fast charger at Blanch.

There is an SCP one spot to the right, but I think the owner is worried somebody will steal his cable.

I was chatting to a 330e owner recently at an SCP, I was charging and he was passing... He asked loads of questions about charging. He only had a granny cable to charge at home so perhaps the SCP vs. FCP issue for 330e guys is; fork out for a cable or use the FCP for free.
Not great for the infrastructure...

bk

bk wrote: »

The average daily distance travelled in Ireland is just 27km

which means a PHEV makes a lot less sense. Ioniq is far better and costs a "lot" less !

bk

Deleted User wrote: »

which means a PHEV makes a lot less sense. Ioniq is far better and costs a "lot" less !

But an Ioniq isn't a SUV, so it just isn't comparable.

Also an Ioniq still doesn't have quiet enough range for people who do lots of long distance driving on the weekends for instance. A PHEV can fill that niche.

zilog_jones

bk wrote: »

I think the idea for this mode is more aimed at cities who might ban or otherwise limit Diesel and ICE cars in the city center.

Yeah I suspected that too, but I'm not aware of any places where this is actually enforced yet.

It certainly would be useful when approaching mountain passes or whatever, as it could struggle if the battery gets depleted while climbing and is relying solely on ICE power (the electric motors are 60 kW each?). Though I'm not sure we have any mountains in Ireland significant enough where this would be a problem

Regarding the usefulness of PHEVs: I'm sure a lot of people have short commutes, especially those who don't work in Dublin (like the OP) - but may also have requirements for frequent long distance driving where a BEV may not be practical. My commute is about 7 km each way, and I'm also within EV range for driving in to the city and most Cork suburbs - but I only have one car and want to be able to drive anywhere with it (even to Belfast or further). I also wanted a bigger car than the Leaf (the only realistic BEV option at the time), so went for a PHEV.

liamog

slicedpanman wrote: »

I was chatting to a 330e owner recently at an SCP, I was charging and he was passing... He asked loads of questions about charging. He only had a granny cable to charge at home so perhaps the SCP vs. FCP issue for 330e guys is; fork out for a cable or use the FCP for free.
Not great for the infrastructure...

That makes sense, at least with the efacs we can use the CCS/Chademo at the same time.
I'd be very annoyed if it was one of the chargers that don't allow AC and DC at the same time.

stesaurus

liamog wrote: »

That makes sense, at least with the efacs we can use the CCS/Chademo at the same time.
I'd be very annoyed if it was one of the chargers that don't allow AC and DC at the same time.

I'd accidentally lean on the emergency button, simple as. BMW are creating the situation by not giving a cable with the car and then eCars are allowing them to have access to the public network, meaning unless they buy the cable it limits their usage to FCPs

goz83

I rang a South Dublin Mitsubishi Dealer last week to arrange an extended test drive in an outlander phev. They rang me back on Friday to set up a day. I said Wednesday noon/lunch and said I would be needing the car for a day, or two, because I needed to see how I would get on withe the car. "That's fine" the rep says. He said they would need to bring in the car from Mitsubishi directly, because they only had the old version in stock.

I drove there this morning to pick up the car. I hadn't confirmed if the test was 24 or 48 hours, so I asked the rep on arrival. I had the wife and 2 kids with me and was planning to leave my car there and drive straight back to pick up my daughter from playschool. in just over an hour. At that point, I am told that it is not their policy to give out cars over night and garages don't do that with new cars. I mentioned that Hyundai are doing 48hr test drives and that the 1 hour long test drive (which they call an extended test drive) would be no good and that I didn't have the time to do it anyway, due to the need for me to pick up my daughter, back over the northside. The owner of the garage reiterated that they don't give out cars overnight, but I said that should have been communicated to me before I made time to travel over to them.

Quite disappointed and definitely won't be buying anything there.

unkel

No 24h test drive, no sale. What's wrong with these people? Do they not want to sell cars? Maybe try another dealer and this time be very specific you want a 24h test drive. Have it confirmed by txt / email.