Transmission Problems with JCB 409

Mushy06

Good Afternoon ALL,

Why do all these problems happen on bank holidays or Christmas eve for this matter?? :mad: hope fire is roaring as you read this.

Any light on this would be greatly appreciated.

I've a 1994 jcb 409 with transmission problems. it'll go backwards fine but wont go forward. Well its an intermittent problem. Sometimes it does go forward when it feels like it, and other times it'll be driving forward and it'll just stop.
it used to happen once every 3-4 weeks but problem getting a lot worse now, as in it hasn't gone forward yet today.

So i started digging in to this this morning. I've current into switch and current comes out when lever in F and R position which rules out switch i think. i followed cables back to relays. Again I've current coming out when lever in F/R position. i also swapped Forward Relay with Reverse Relay to rule out Relays.

Problem usually happens when cold. not sure if that makes a difference. i was wondering after ruling out switch and relays would it be the solenoid on top of gearbox or am i missing something? trying to follow cable #862 at moment

Anyone else have a issue like this before?

Nekarsulm

No idea, as you have checked all the usual things.
Was oil changed ? Still cherry red, or going blackish and smelling "burnt"?
Ring Gormley JCB in the morning, they are very helpful.

Mushy06

Thank you for the Reply Nekarsulm,
Actually i didnt check that. i'll do it first thing in morning. but why that stop it going in reverse as well as forward? but its another one to rule out. 
ill give them bell in morning?
Thanking you

Nekarsulm

Just in case thickish oil was causing a solenoid to stick. Apart from the forward and reverse solenoids, is there another on top of the box? Or have you the speeds on the f/r switch stalk perhaps?

Mushy06

im open to any suggestion at this stage. ill definitely check that in morning. gearstick on left of seat for speeds. i only saw 1 solenoid from floor but ill take out seat tomorrow and take off floor so that i'll have better look down.
i was also wondering if i swap the cables going into solenoid so that f/r would be opposite or would i do damage to solenoid ? just to see if it was solenoid

Waffletraktor

This guy should be able to help, though specialises in manipoo's more so.
https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?members/acengineering.13308/

blue5000

Mushy06 wrote: »

im open to any suggestion at this stage. ill definitely check that in morning. gearstick on left of seat for speeds. i only saw 1 solenoid from floor but ill take out seat tomorrow and take off floor so that i'll have better look down.
i was also wondering if i swap the cables going into solenoid so that f/r would be opposite or would i do damage to solenoid ? just to see if it was solenoid

I was trying to hold off typing this but it could be a broken fan blade in the torque converter, won't be an easy fix if that is the problem.


https://www.google.ie/search?q=broken+fin+torque+converter&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=662&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjMhIy3spnRAhXCCMAKHXkBDgIQ_AUIBigB

148multi

If you switch the wires going to the solenoid on the transmission and it moves forward, its your switch. It's the same mechanism that pumps transmission fluid for both forward and reverse.

Nekarsulm

Or an oil leak between the solenoid and the forward clutch pack. Or a crack in the forward cutch pack housing. Or a seal in the same clutch pack.
Dunno about the 409 box, but Gormely's are about 1600 euro for a rebuilt 3cx box, exchange.

tomwaterford

Swop over forward and reverse solenoids??

Have you a multimeter or just a test lamp.....but tbf....I'd be in favour of as suggested checking your oil and filters

Mushy06

Happy New Year to you all and thanks a million for all your suggestions.
It wasn't till last week till i got to go digging further into this. So again like i said earlier i was happy it wasn't wiring issue. i dug away down to solenoid. i disconnected to wires and checked to see if current coming into solenoid. And there was, so that ruled out everything up along. Solenoid was dry all around with no leaks. So i removed Solenoid (bit of a bastard) 4 allen key bolts. All full of dirty and hard to grip. Airline sorted that out. i swapped around solenoid and wired up loosely. Everything worked opposite to my earlier fault. Could go forward but not back this time. #BadSolenoid.
i rang Dealer and they had pair in stock for  E145. i could get cheaper online but time against me and needed ASAP. Loader going perfect since. 
Thank you for your help again.
if dealer has them in stock they must be going!
*Tip*  there's no need to take out seat if you going doing it.

freedominacup

Mushy06 wrote: »

Happy New Year to you all and thanks a million for all your suggestions.
It wasn't till last week till i got to go digging further into this. So again like i said earlier i was happy it wasn't wiring issue. i dug away down to solenoid. i disconnected to wires and checked to see if current coming into solenoid. And there was, so that ruled out everything up along. Solenoid was dry all around with no leaks. So i removed Solenoid (bit of a bastard) 4 allen key bolts. All full of dirty and hard to grip. Airline sorted that out. i swapped around solenoid and wired up loosely. Everything worked opposite to my earlier fault. Could go forward but not back this time. #BadSolenoid.
i rang Dealer and they had pair in stock for  E145. i could get cheaper online but time against me and needed ASAP. Loader going perfect since. 
Thank you for your help again.
if dealer has them in stock they must be going!
*Tip*  there's no need to take out seat if you going doing it.

You were lucky. Transmission rebuilds are an expensive pastime.

Mushy06

Back again.

i had a good run there without any issues on the 409. But last week i was driving and shifting from 3rd to 4th gear and machine rev'd up as if it was in neutral. hydraulics, engine all perfect but just no forward or reverse. i towed it home and did a little debug. solenoids are perfect (as above). i've current going to both solenoids and the dump switch on gear lever overrides solenoids as it should suggesting all electrics good and the problem is south of the border. Trans oil and filter replaced only few months ago and the bottom mesh filter was spotless. There's a new tiny little whine coming from torque converter as i removed the rubber grommet under the bell housing. if only i had x-ray vision to be 100% sure it was converter.

Just wondering is there much work changing torque converter in them? its same as a 3CX but only with the back axle a few mm away from bottom bellhousing. Hoping its straight forward job as need to take few days off work to get it done.