Recourse with used cars from Garage

thehamo · 23-12-2016 8:15pm #1

Hey, so, I bought a 12D 508 from a garage last April. I did all the home work I could, did a cartell check and a motorcheck and all came back showing nothing suspicious. I brought a mechanic out to look at the car and he gave it a quick drive and glance over the engine, and he seemed happy enough. So I went ahead and sealed the deal.

rececntly, I had to get the heating fixed as it was only blowing cold air. The mechanic I got to do it, proceeded to tell me that this car had been in a crash and there was a pretty bad repair job done to it. even the bonnet is off centre. His advice was get a engineers report, and speak to a solicitor to see what can be done! (make it sound pretty serious to me!)

Would you think I have any recourse here? The car is a UK import, and he said the garage in question should have spotted that it was a crash repair quite quickly after a comprehensive check up. So pissed of as I did my homework on this one, and it all looked so good!

colm_mcm · 23-12-2016 8:48pm

Selling a repaired car isn't illegal in itself.

beechwood55 · 23-12-2016 8:52pm

So how come the mechanic is able to tell you this now and wasn't able to tell you when he checked it over before you bought it? Did he not notice that it was a crash repair???

magentis · 23-12-2016 8:52pm

it wasn't a black estate was it?

colm_mcm · 23-12-2016 8:53pm

Different mechanic I'd say.

thehamo · 23-12-2016 8:56pm

yes completely different mechanic,

The reason he wa able to tell me is because he had to get stuck into the engine and remove parts that you wouldnt really be able to see past normally.

Its not about selling a repaired car per say, its the fact that it was in an accident, and that is something that definitely should have been communicated to me. I definitely would not have bought that car had I of know it was in a crash of any description. And, the fact that the repair was so bad it prompted the mechanic to tell me to take legal action?

Surely the garage have an obligation to do a full engineers report on the car to see what condition it is in and relay all information to the prospective buyer, especially if the car is not road worthy?

CosmicSmash · 23-12-2016 9:22pm

thehamo wrote:

Surely the garage have an obligation to do a full engineers report on the car to see what condition it is in and relay all information to the prospective buyer, especially if the car is not road worthy?

What makes the car unroadworthy? You seemed happy enough with the car until you had to get the heater fixed and found about the damage. Now it seems you feel you're driving around in a death trap. In fairness the original mechanic should have noticed an off centre bonnet by simply by looking at the gaps and opening it.

thehamo · 23-12-2016 9:27pm

Well thats exactly it. I was none the wiser. Of course I was, im not a mechanic , how am I to know that the car is POSSIBLY un-roadworthy until I am told it is? People have driven around in cut and shut cars thinking they're safe as houses because they are none the wiser.

It will all come out when I get the engineers report done then I can decide whether or not i'm happy to keep it as it is, or go to the garage about it.

colm_mcm · 23-12-2016 9:50pm

Yea the big problem you'll have is that you can't prove the car wasn't in a crash after you bought it, you also won't be able to prove that the supplying garage knew it was repaired.
It wouldn't be the norm for a garage to do an engineers report on every car they sell.
I'm not condoning the garage selling you a repaired car, but legally you won't get too far as no laws have been broken.
I would assume the car passed an nct?

Henry Ford III · 23-12-2016 10:03pm

12D - is that significant somehow?

R.O.R · 24-12-2016 8:48am

Henry Ford III wrote: »

12D - is that significant somehow?

Yes.

Tells us it's a 2012 vehicle, that wasn't registered in culchie land.

How a dealer is supposed to know a car had been repaired when a mechanic and a cartell check showed nothing, is beyond me.

Do people think a dealer should take cars apart to make sure they are legit, then put them back together for sale?

BdaraB · 24-12-2016 10:18am

Henry Ford III wrote: »

12D - is that significant somehow?

It's there to show that people will pay more for something to be regesitered in the big city to make them look like they're not from "culchie land"

thehamo · 24-12-2016 10:36am

R.O.R wrote: »

Yes.

Tells us it's a 2012 vehicle, that wasn't registered in culchie land.

How a dealer is supposed to know a car had been repaired when a mechanic and a cartell check showed nothing, is beyond me.

Do people think a dealer should take cars apart to make sure they are legit, then put them back together for sale?

Yes 100% absolutely they should. Not take them apart, but do a full inspection on the car to ensure its safe. The onus should be completely on them to sell something road worthy.

Stheno · 24-12-2016 10:38am

thehamo wrote: »

Yes 100% absolutely they should. Not take them apart, but do a full inspection on the car to ensure its safe. The onus should be completely on them to sell something road worthy.

Have you asked your mechanic who checked it before you bought it how he missed the fact it was crashed?

kippy · 24-12-2016 10:40am

thehamo wrote: »

Yes 100% absolutely they should. Not take them apart, but do a full inspection on the car to ensure its safe. The onus should be completely on them to sell something road worthy.

But the car is roadworthy......

James Bond Junior · 24-12-2016 10:45am

Did you pay the market value at the time ir was the car much cheaper than others for sale? I'd be pretty pissed if I paid full price for a repaired car.

R.O.R · 24-12-2016 10:57am

thehamo wrote: »

Yes 100% absolutely they should. Not take them apart, but do a full inspection on the car to ensure its safe. The onus should be completely on them to sell something road worthy.

And how would that be done, without totall taking the car apart?

Magic?

In this case the fact it has been repaired came to light when something deep in the engine needed replacing, and if that hadn't been replaced then no one would have known the car had been repaired. Not sure what the dealer who sold it could have done, that wasn't also done by the purchaser, to know the car had been repaired.

As for people saying it's not road worthy because it's been repaired - it's better to stay silent and be though a fool rather than open ones mouth (or type) and confirm the foolishness.

mickdw · 24-12-2016 11:14am

The fact that you brought a professional with you and they gave the car a clean bill of health would be a full defence for the selling dealer imo.
They being professionals in their industry are supposed to be able to recognise a crashed car however when a professional working for you at time of sale failed to notice any issue and him being a professional in the industry also, any reasonable judge would be inclined to comment that they all acted in good faith.

25-12-2016 8:05am

thehamo wrote: »

Yes 100% absolutely they should. Not take them apart, but do a full inspection on the car to ensure its safe. The onus should be completely on them to sell something road worthy.

As Colm asked above did the car pass an nct.
If it did would that not be an indication that the car might be roadworthy.
You seem to be jumping to conclusions in saying the car isnt roadworthy.

To be fair the garage might have done a cartel check and a motor chek too like yourself and come back with nothing. How would they have known.
Do you expect them to go ripping a car to bits to verify if it was crashed . Or to get an engineers report. Would you have been willing to spend an extra grand on the car for the extra work you are expecting them to do.

Personally id be more pissed at the mechanic you brought to inspect the car.
He inspected the car and found nothing wrong with it .
Your mechanic has deemed the car roadworthy
one of the last cars i bought my mechanic spent 2 minutes looking at the engine and about 15minutes under the car (over a pit) looking for signs of crash damage.

Also as colm said it could be difficult to prove when the damage happened.
Id say get an engineers report first and then move on from there

TanFlash · 25-12-2016 8:46am

R.O.R wrote:

How a dealer is supposed to know a car had been repaired when a mechanic and a cartell check showed nothing, is beyond me.

They are the professionals, they should know or stand over it if highlighted later.

exaisle · 25-12-2016 8:57am

thehamo wrote: »

Surely the garage have an obligation to do a full engineers report on the car to see what condition it is in and relay all information to the prospective buyer, especially if the car is not road worthy?

Google "caveat emptor" or "buyer beware".

The seller is under no obligation to do anything. It's your responsibility to satisfy yourself as to condition of the car.

You and your "expert" missed the fact that the car had been crashed.
I'd be more inclined to ask your "expert" how he missed it....especially if the bonnet is off-centre. Who was your expert...Ray Charles....Stevie Wonder??

I don't think you have any case against the seller.

TanFlash · 25-12-2016 9:43am

Wouldn't stand up in any court

R.O.R · 25-12-2016 12:31pm

TanFlash wrote: »

They are the professionals, they should know or stand over it if highlighted later.

How should they know? Do you think we're endowed with magical powers when accepted in to the motor industry?

If it has been highlighted at the time of purchase, or mechanical inspection, then something would have been done. If something came to light shortly after the purchase, then something would have been done.

8 months after the op's mechanic gave it a clean bill of health? Not likely anything will be done as the damage could have happened anywhere at any time.

If the repair didn't affect the driving of the car in the previous 8 months, I'm not quite sure what the issue is anyway? It's been damaged, it's been repaired. That would be the case with a large proportion of used cars.

TanFlash · 25-12-2016 4:46pm

As someone in the trade, (main dealer), we are the professionals, take the good with the bad

coolbeans · 26-12-2016 3:21pm

Putting on my Captain Hindsight hat for a minute the OP should have done a HPI check as it's a UK car. I wouldn't trust an Irish car history check on a UK car even if it were free. The HPI check would show up if it was crashed in the UK, and categorise the repair according to magnitude of the crash and the monies required to repair. This would indicate if it was an economical repair in the first instance. Eg a Cat D car would have relatively minor damage and a Cat C would be a bit more serious. If I were the OP, even now, I'd do the check using the original UK registration and see what it throws up.

Incidentally, I think you have no case. Did you ask the dealer specifically if the car had been involved in a crash? If he said no, that's a lie but very difficult to prove in court. I'd put it down to experience and drive what may still be a perfectly acceptable car.

clogher71 · 26-12-2016 7:33pm

I can't help wondering reading this thread how did the dealer end up with this car.....did they take it in unknowing it was accident damaged....did some customer trade it in knowing it had a fault and said nothing.....how many times has this happened that people trade cars into Garages knowing it has a fault that is not ovious or took measures to cover a fault up so they can sell their problem on......

TanFlash · 26-12-2016 8:29pm

If sourced from U.K, It could have come from auctions however they normally grade and detail the car extremely well. When the car lands in Ireland, dealer should have checked it fully and if it there was anything suspicious his hands are tied at that stage, should have traded it on and took the hit. But if he sells it on, he is responsible.
When taking a trade in, he has to do his homework on the car, because he is the one selling it on.
This is why sticking to a main dealer with a reputation is advisable because they are less likely to sell dodgy cars, the further you go down the food chain in the car industry the more chance of hookie dealings.

Recourse with used cars from Garage

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