Windows Media Centre replacement?

PJtharsaile

I have been using a Windows Media Centre box under the TV for about 10 years (since Vista; it's now Windows 7). It has tuners for terrestrial and satellite TV and can record on both simultaneously. Motherboard and power supply are fanless and it also serves as a Plex server so I can stream content to any device (tablet, chromebook, PC) and sync content if I want to those with storage (I never have).

Mostly, it's worked well enough, apart from the Windows updates that kick in at the wrong moment. I use NoMachine and VNC to give me remote control access from any device for setting up a recording. (I should say that part of the point is that I prefer to avoid ever using Sky). My DSL Internet connection does't have the bandwidth to permit streaming to devices away from home.

Incidentally, I have a NAS that I could run Plex on but it won't record TV.

Some inconveniences and solutions for comment:

1. Losing access to BBC iPlayer

I used to use a VPN; it's now blocked. ITV continues to work.

2. Problems with the TV guide (in WMC)

Often late updating unless forced to and even then slow and sometimes with gaps.

3. Missing channel

BBC Four has never shown up here but it's available on both TVs. I record it necessary using a memory stick in the TV in the bedroom, but this isn't playable anywhere else (5kplayer supposedly works but it didn't for me).

4. Electricity consumption

I found that shutting the device down (sleeping at night) meant that the problems with the programme guide were exacerbated and I stopped bothering and just leave it on 24x7. This adds up over the course of a year.

5. Removing ads from recorded content

I had this sorted in the past but lost it in the transition to Windows 7. I tried it again recently -- the free version of the same app (MCEbuddy; updated) and it didn't work. :mad:

6. Separate programme guides for terrestrial and satellite TV

It's bad enough that these are not integrated and that flipping back and forth is inconvenient. The guides in the TVs are slow to load and there is a price to be paid in using the app provided by the TV vendor (Sony in my case). The app is either for UK or Irish TV, not both. Furthermore, Sony collects information on what you watch and resells it.

What would be ideal:

A Linux based replacement PVR box capable of

• recording both terrestrial and satellite TV and running Plex (streaming it with transcoding)
• providing an up to date programme guide and software app for phones/tablets for controlling recording
• removing commercials from recorded TV
• operating continuously on very little electricity; perhaps even being woken to record or play and otherwise just sleeping

I would prefer that what I watch and when is my business not that of Sony and co.

Both of my TVs are recent Sonys, both of which have satellite tuners, RJ45 network ports (connected) and HDMI inputs. One is Android, the other is not (terrible UI and slow). Android one can't record yet (will in future, allegedly, but the format is useless and remote accessibility nil)

Both send information about what I watch back to Sony. I can block this but lose the onscreen programme guide if I do. When I have a better PVR I will do that.

The HDHomeRun devices that Plex are featuring on their web site look potentially interesting. However, I haven't seen or hear of any users in Ireland and would prefer in the short term to just switch to running open source software on my existing box and then migrating later to a new, smaller one that used less power. My interest in

• 4k: zero
• Teletext: less than zero
• Connecting to surround sound: marginal (main TV has sound bar; it's enough)

I've used satellite receiver boxes with older TVs in the past. They had poor UIs, no remote control capability, and horrible remotes, and I used an RF out feed to send signal to a 2nd TV (equipped with a Triax magic eye to change channels remotely). The SAB Titan III Combo receiver appears to tick some of the boxes but I would be interested to hear how it compares with say, something running ENIGMA2, which I have heard of but not seen. It lacks any app that would enable remote recording.

Part of what's driving the requirements is that both time shifting and catch-up are far more important to us than live TV. You know how it is: there's rarely anything worth watching and then when there is... there are two or three things on at the same time!

Johnboy1951

A Linux based replacement PVR box capable of
recording both terrestrial and satellite TV and running Plex (streaming it with transcoding)
1. providing an up to date programme guide and software app for
2. phones/tablets for controlling recording
3. removing commercials from recorded TV
4. operating continuously on very little electricity; perhaps even being woken to record or play and otherwise just sleeping

You could try using LibreElec on that machine .....

1. yes
2. yes
3. don't know
4. probably dependent on your machine, mine runs 24/7

I use tvheadend as the backend in LE on the tuner box.
Kodi is used as the frontend on all client devices such as R-Pi & NUC.
This has an integrated channel list and 14 day EPG.

All you need to be sure of is that the drivers for your tuner cards are available in the OS.
I use a community build which incorporates the TBS drivers for my tuner cards.

There is a Plex plugin available I believe.

Best of all you should be able to test this out running from a USB stick without damaging your present set up.

PJtharsaile

Wasn't aware of LibreElec fork; thanks for the pointer.

I tried OpenElec in the past and don't recall now why I didn't switch; didn't seem quite ready (run from a USB stick of course). Also tried Kodi but didn't have the patience or need for the customizations, and I don't do any fetching stuff from the net which I think a lot of Kodi users do. For me anyway Plex was like a cold beer on a hot day by comparison; flawless transcoding and centralized management. 100% worth the small subscription. I only use it for recorded TV but might get around to photos etc. (all on the NAS now) with Kodi plugin someday. Do you use it for things other than TV?

What kind of box is your backend and got a link to the community build you mention?

So you have already ticked all the boxes? Including stripping ads? What about a phone/tablet app to control recording? I wasn't clear earlier that the Sony app (Sideview) is either for Irish TV or UK TV, so we have one version on one his tablet and another on hers<eyeroll emoticon here>.

Johnboy1951

PJtharsaile wrote: »

Wasn't aware of LibreElec fork; thanks for the pointer.

I tried OpenElec in the past and don't recall now why I didn't switch; didn't seem quite ready (run from a USB stick of course). Also tried Kodi but didn't have the patience or need for the customizations, and I don't do any fetching stuff from the net which I think a lot of Kodi users do. For me anyway Plex was like a cold beer on a hot day by comparison; flawless transcoding and centralized management. 100% worth the small subscription. I only use it for recorded TV but might get around to photos etc. (all on the NAS now) with Kodi plugin someday. Do you use it for things other than TV?

What kind of box is your backend and got a link to the community build you mention?

So you have already ticked all the boxes? Including stripping ads? What about a phone/tablet app to control recording? I wasn't clear earlier that the Sony app (Sideview) is either for Irish TV or UK TV, so we have one version on one his tablet and another on hers<eyeroll emoticon here>.

I posted I did not know about stripping ads .
I believe it can be done but have had no need of it.
I have no need for transcoding and never used Plex.
Clients use Kodi so can play what is recorded, and has the benefit that all client devices have the same interface.
My backend is an old Dell Dimension 5150 P4.
All client devices record to it, and can play back all recordings regardless which one recorded it.
I don't do any customisations in Kodi that I recall, except I have a couple of video plugins installed .... youtube being one.

I use the set up mainly for FTA TV, both live and recorded, as well as the odd film or video.

The tvheadend backend management has a bit of a learning curve, but is well worth the effort in the end as it is both versatile and stable/solid.
If you don't want to spend a bit of time learning how best to get the results you want then don't even try it.

There are remote controllers for Kodi for various devices, as well as its own basic one.


What make of tuner cards are you using?

PJtharsaile

Plex is free now so you can try it out at no cost. I use the transcoding (well, it happens automatically) mainly when watching on a tablet (Nexus 7 mostly; sometimes iPad mini) and an original Samsung Chromebook which is getting a bit long in the tooth now; any replacement, possibly for either, will do full HD. My NAS (Synology) will support Plex but doesn't have the horses to transcode -- they want more money for a model that does, so the old WMC doubles up. One nice feature of Plex is the ability to pause on one device and resume on another (the stuff of Sky advertising). This is handy as ma'am sleeps earlier than I do and isn't keen on having the TV on when she's trying to sleep, understandably. I can just pause on the TV and resume on tablet with headphones. Not v often, but nice to have.

There are some interesting Plex v Kodi sites which may be worth a look again now that I think the answer may be "both" for some anyway.

I don't mind spending a bit of time setting up tvheadend as long as it works and stays stable and gets to the point where I can forget about it. I've spent way too much time babysitting Windows updates and applications updates on what should be an appliance and on which I have installed as little as possible (just Firefox and a few housekeeping things --Ccleaner, Secunia PSI) etc. I suppose nearly 10 years out of the same box (Zalman HD 160) isn't too shabby. Certainly coming to the end of the road for Microsoft here.

My tuners are Hauppauge (a Nova T-500 and a Nova HD-S2). Can you share a link to the community build you mentioned? Thanks!

Johnboy1951

I think this would be a good place to start.
I use the TBS release mentioned but you probably need one of the others.

https://forum.libreelec.tv/thread-130.html?

There is great community support in the forum.

I had an Arnova Gbook tab that I used to watch liveTV without any transcoding.
BSPlayer free and TVHClient installed.

Replaced it a week ago and this AM broke the new one!

Such is life

Use cases differ so this might not suit you, but is probably worth a serious look.

There have been improvements in the last year or two, particularly with tvheadend, but I have not taken the time to follow them properly ..... such as bouquets, and IPTV and so on.

Take your time and search the forum and ask if you cannot find an answer

PJtharsaile

Ah, now I get it. TBS is a brand of tuner?! Ok, I'll look for a different version.

So what are you running tvheadend on? LibreElec also? Do you also have Kodi on the Dell?

Hadn't come across TVHClient. Looks good -- you're a mine of information!

Johnboy1951

PJtharsaile wrote: »

Ah, now I get it. TBS is a brand of tuner?! Ok, I'll look for a different version.

So what are you running tvheadend on? LibreElec also? Do you also have Kodi on the Dell?

Hadn't come across TVHClient. Looks good -- you're a mine of information!

LibreELEC is a 'just enough' operating system to run Kodi.
That is its main purpose, so other functions one would expect to find in a full Linux OS are not present.

The LE devs have an official repository of add-ons, which include various backend management apps for managing tuners. My preference happens to be tvheadend. There are others - which I have never tried

With tvheadend running, you do the management from another PC using a browser
<IP.Address>:9981
That allows you to do all the set up for the tuners .... but of course you need to be sure you have a version with the drivers for your tuner cards.
There is so much in tvheadend it is mind-boggling and a lot of the time confusing

Anyway, with tvheadend set up, you install a 'client' addon so that Kodi can access the output of tvheadend.
Also, all devices on the LAN which have a client app installed can access all the tuners too.

If you wish you can access the tuners using a different app - browser, VLC etc.
Tvheadend can produce an .m3u list for such use.

I find the client app the best as using Kodi I get the full EPG etc on all client devices.
In essence ...... all devices behave exactly the same and see the same content.

I should point out that although the Dell has LE (with Kodi of course) I do not use it to drive a TV.
When I need to (seldom) I can connect a monitor or TV to it to have a GUI, else I can access it using 'ssh' from any PC on the lan.
The price of a decent graphics card was not worth it, when I could use a very small client device at the TV and no cost of graphics card.

Also it means I can put the backend Dell out of sight ... anywhere at all once connected to the LAN.

BTW, VLC has a HTSP option which I sometimes use to get access to the tvheadend output. Works well but I feel Kodi is lighter on resources for some reason.

To my mind this is not something you will set up from scratch in a few minutes (or hours ), but something you should be prepared to put time into to get the best out of it.

The newest Kodi release is about hitting the last of its BETA releases now and there are a lot of differences to the older version.
LE uses the most recent it can in the community versions.

Not much else to say really ...... I dual boot LE with PCLinuxOS on that Dell, but I checked last week and it was Nov 2015 when I last used the full PCLinuxOS install.

Go dip your toes and have some fun.
Be prepared to change the version you are running as you might find a different community version (or even the official version) suits you best.

https://libreelec.tv/

https://libreelec.tv/2016/10/libreelec-krypton-v7-90-008-alpha

http://cvh.libreelec.tv/

PJtharsaile

This is tremendous. MANY THANKS. Much appreciated.

I can see a few days or weeks of fun (and maybe the odd bit of bad language) ahead.

It blows my mind how completely screwed up "off the shelf stuff" is.

Anecdote:

Thought I'd check out a few mins of Grand Designs this evening, at 9:30 on More4+1 as far as I remember. Couldn't find More4+1 (or even More4) in the EPG in the TV. Reinstalled Sony Sideview on wife's iPad as a UK app. Bingo, lots more channels, programme guide. Uh oh. The channel numbers don't match the TV's, despite choosing FreeSAT as the service provider.

Then I tried to find the TV with the iPad and app, forgetting that I'd had to remove it from the network a few months ago for generating so much traffic it caused the router to die (line had a fault anyway and this seemed to push it over the edge; line fault was repaired and I left that TV offline). As soon as I plugged the Ethernet cable in the TV in again the Internet was gone. Kaput. Had to reset both the modem and the router.

All this because Sony wants to collect information on what people watch and resell the information. Apparently anyway. But it's actually so bad it must be something worse. The Sony TV in the bedroom (slightly older, non-Android) doesn't do this. But guess where it gets its EPG: Gracenote!

Johnboy1951

PJtharsaile wrote: »

This is tremendous. MANY THANKS. Much appreciated.

I can see a few days or weeks of fun (and maybe the odd bit of bad language) ahead.

It blows my mind how completely screwed up "off the shelf stuff" is.

The only reason I have this set up is that there was (is?) no commercially available device that did all I wanted.

BTW, I ripped out all the coax cable within the house and replaced it with Cat5e to each room.
All TV and video is now available on the LAN so no need of coax and STBs in other rooms ..... just TVs with small client devices.

Johnboy1951

Remember I said tvheadend was comprehensive?

Here is something to blow your mind

http://docs.tvheadend.org/

https://tvheadend.org/projects/tvheadend/wiki

I only discovered these AFTER I had been using tvheadend for some time ........ only wimps read the documentation!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y-E4sQSb94

PJtharsaile

Agree, it's impressive.

I made some progress with the Sony Android TV today. I found that it would work on a wireless network connection and I did a system update, re-paired it with the Sideview app and managed to get a browsable programme guide of preferred satellite channels with numbers matching those on the TV. (Haven't risked trying a wired connection again). I could add Irish channels to the programme guide but they aren't selectable (as in changing channel), even if one switches manually to digital terrestrial input first. TV refused to use an external USB hard drive but would use a memory stick.

So, I'm set up for being able to record and watch and to use the app for satellite TV for now (in addition to my old setup). In some ways it's quite slick.

But I can't watch what's recorded anywhere else, on other devices, remove ads, or archive content.

And, more importantly, I had a scan of the latest privacy policy once I'd updated the TV and it's LONG and hair-raisingly creepy. Sony is busy sharing data with Facebook, Google and anyone else who'll pay for it. What you watch. What you record. What your keywords are for the programme guide, and probably where you are when you use the app to initiate a remote recording. I don't use Facebook but that doesn't matter. I have a profile, gathered from, among other things, all of the phones of the people who have my number and who have Whatsapp on their phone (Google "You just haven't logged in yet" if you haven't seen it).

Needless to say the Sideview app makes it easy to "heart" what you're watching on social media and follow what people are tweeting about it.

Wait, it gets creepier. The TV now shows a microphone on the HOME screen UI and suggests I ask questions like "How tall is Brad Pitt" (and then spells out "I didn't catch that"). It's not immediately clear if the microphone is in the TV or the tablet or how to disable it.

All this consumer surveillance and the mindless tolerance of it blows my mind way more than tvheadend's docs let me tell you. Someday there will be a giant wake-up call. I don't where it will happen but it will. It just won't be Germany because they've learned. Even if it doesn't happen I still have no desire to be a data subject of multinational corporations every time I do something like watch a TV programme.

Merry Christmas!