permission granted. conditions attached

degetme

hi all, got notice of planning approval from local authority and as part of the conditions attached the bay window from elevation has to be changed to "two vertical emphasis windows".

can this be appealed?
do I have to resubmit front elevation drawings with required windows?

Gumbo

degetme wrote: »

hi all, got notice of planning approval from local authority and as part of the conditions attached the bay window from elevation has to be changed to "two vertical emphasis windows".

can this be appealed?
do I have to resubmit front elevation drawings with required windows?

Yes, you can appeal the condition to An Board Pleanala within 4 weeks of the decision date. Be careful though, the appeal period starts from the decision date and not the date you receive the letter, you can type the date into ABP website and they tell you the latest an appeal can be lodged.

You only have to resubmit revised drawings if the LA ask for it. If they simply stated to change them and not seek written approval from the planning authority then you may not have to lodge anything.

We would have to see the wording to make a more definitive judgement.

degetme

kceire wrote: »

Yes, you can appeal the condition to An Board Pleanala within 4 weeks of the decision date. Be careful though, the appeal period starts from the decision date and not the date you receive the letter, you can type the date into ABP website and they tell you the latest an appeal can be lodged.

You only have to resubmit revised drawings if the LA ask for it. If they simply stated to change them and not seek written approval from the planning authority then you may not have to lodge anything.

We would have to see the wording to make a more definitive judgement.

"prior to the commencemt of the development the applicant shall submit revised drawings omitting the bay window on the front elevation. the window shall be replaced with two vertical emphasis windows"

how serious is this and what are the consequences of not complying?

BryanF

degetme wrote: »

"prior to the commencemt of the development the applicant shall submit revised drawings omitting the bay window on the front elevation. the window shall be replaced with two vertical emphasis windows"

how serious is this and what are the consequences of not complying?

Not complying is breaking the law. Options:
Appeal to ABP
Submit drawings to show compliance.

degetme

BryanF wrote: »

Not complying is breaking the law. Options:
Appeal to ABP
Submit drawings to show compliance.

my agent who put together the planning application said to leave it till after xmas and ask the planner who signed off on it to reconsider after the four weeks are up. presume these four weeks are when it goes to abp.

Gumbo

degetme wrote: »

"prior to the commencemt of the development the applicant shall submit revised drawings omitting the bay window on the front elevation. the window shall be replaced with two vertical emphasis windows"

how serious is this and what are the consequences of not complying?

Yes, you need to submit compliance drawings then.
If you don't, then the house is not in compliance with the granted planning permission, your supervising professional will not be able to sign of on any stage payments, thus not allowing you to draw down funds and finally no chance of getting certificates of compliance with your planning.

degetme wrote: »

my agent who put together the planning application said to leave it till after xmas and ask the planner who signed off on it to reconsider after the four weeks are up. presume these four weeks are when it goes to abp.

Once the decision is made, it can't be changed imo
Waiting till after the 4 weeks means you loose your right to appeal and it's possible the planner will not engage with you during the appeal period.

mickdw

You really would be foolish not to comply. To go against a specific condition is far more serious imo than making a random alteration during the build.
I wouldn't bother with the appeal. It's a long process and on a matter of a design alteration that is quite a typical requirement, I'm not sure they would side with you. It would in fact probably be faster to apply for planning again for a new design of house.
I'd let the appeals period pass, see if you and designer can come up with something that will work for both you and the planning department and go forward that way.
I have typically following such requests made more substantial alteration to a design than just re drawing the window style and had it approved by planners.

degetme

mickdw wrote: »

You really would be foolish not to comply. To go against a specific condition is far more serious imo than making a random alteration during the build.
I wouldn't bother with the appeal. It's a long process and on a matter of a design alteration that is quite a typical requirement, I'm not sure they would side with you. It would in fact probably be faster to apply for planning again for a new design of house.
I'd let the appeals period pass, see if you and designer can come up with something that will work for both you and the planning department and go forward that way.
I have typically following such requests made more substantial alteration to a design than just re drawing the window style and had it approved by planners.

Thanks for advice. It doesn't reali bother me about the bay Window. More than likely won't appeal the decision. Will comply with conditions. Was just wondering what were the consequences of not complying with the fiftheen conditions attached.

What's next after final grant of permission? I'm in no rush to start building. More than likely go down the contractor route as I've little knowledge of building and not alot of spare time

Angry bird

Any reasons given why the bay window is to be omitted in the planners report? I personally don't particularly care for them but I wouldn't request their omission without a reason that's not 'I don't like it'. Appeal condition, looking at 14 weeks or so with no guarantees. If you're looking to build soon, and with time being money... Besides aesthetics, does it make a difference really?

degetme

Angry bird wrote: »

Any reasons given why the bay window is to be omitted in the planners report? I personally don't particularly care for them but I wouldn't request their omission without a reason that's not 'I don't like it'. Appeal condition, looking at 14 weeks or so with no guarantees. If you're looking to build soon, and with time being money... Besides aesthetics, does it make a difference really?

Haven't seen planners report yet. Agent has it I think. Only saw conditions attached online. There's only one bay window in front elevation and I'm guessing they want to keep it all the same? It is costly to appeal to abp?

mickdw

I'm guessing it's a rural development. This condition would have been par for the course in rural mayo a few years back when designs were of the bungalow bliss variety.

overshoot

degetme wrote: »

Haven't seen planners report yet. Agent has it I think. Only saw conditions attached online. There's only one bay window in front elevation and I'm guessing they want to keep it all the same? It is costly to appeal to abp?

can i guess this is a rural application? bay windows wouldnt be looked on favourably in the rural design guidelines. A square one maybe, but chamfered edges will definitely be removed.
€220 fee to appeal to ABP (plus whatever costs in forming the appeal)

DOCARCH

degetme wrote: »

It is costly to appeal to abp?

As above, E 220. But it could also cost you a lot more!

Bear in mind that ABP re-look at the entire application!

You might appeal one condition that you are not really happy about, then they look at the entire application and refuse the whole thing!

It happens, especially for one off houses in rural locations.

Johnnyhpipe

Just for my own info... why are bay chamfered windows frowned upon in private rural developments?

893bet

Get rid of it. They are very costly, hard to make airtight and offer little interms of functionality!

Planner is doing you a favour.

degetme

overshoot wrote: »

degetme wrote: »

Haven't seen planners report yet. Agent has it I think. Only saw conditions attached online. There's only one bay window in front elevation and I'm guessing they want to keep it all the same? It is costly to appeal to abp?

can i guess this is a rural application? bay windows wouldnt be looked on favourably in the rural design guidelines. A square one maybe, but chamfered edges will definitely be removed.
€220 fee to appeal to ABP (plus whatever costs in forming the appeal)

Yes a one off rural single story. I'll probably let it be and submit revised front elevation. No section 47 . It was mentioned in pre planning meeting as a requirement.

Angry bird

degetme wrote: »

Yes a one off rural single story. I'll probably let it be and submit revised front elevation. No section 47 . It was mentioned in pre planning meeting as a requirement.

In that case, definitely do not appeal, submit the revised compliance elevations and get yourself ready for the build phase.

mickdw

Johnnyhpipe wrote: »

Just for my own info... why are bay chamfered windows frowned upon in private rural developments?

They are not in keeping with the what was the traditional house type that the design guidelines are based on.
Personally I think they are hideous things.
I do find though that the planners are more open to a broad range of design compared to a few years back.
There was a period during the boom where everything built locally was a large single block with a line of long narrow windows.
Much nicer stuff being built now. Perhaps the design guidelines have altered peoples thinking a little into breaking up large scale stuff in more acceptable types.

overshoot

by traditional Mick doesnt mean the bungalow bliss, massive eaves...
Planning guidelines favour traditional farmhouse proportions, narrow plan, simple forms. However as said above, the planners are more open to contemporary design. Within these forms a good architect can do a lot, which not only looks better (imo) but takes much better advantage of solar gain, views which adds to the comfort of the house going forward.
In fairness though I dont feel the improved design standards are planning led, just people in general have got a higher appreciation of design after the crap the boom served up. Then again plenty will still pay peanuts for a badly designed house and spend a fortune on finishings

chillit

I had  a similar situation with a rural 2 storey. The bay window submitted was half hexagonal in shape as at the time we and our architect thought that this was more in keeping with the house style. The house was attempting a style similar to a Victorian gate lodge. 
The council asked for the bay window to be made rectangular instead. It didn't seem like a big deal to us so we resubmitted the requested elevation and that was it.