Discussion: Sex Offenders Law - Should it be adjusted

Atari Jaguar

I'm mainly talking about the fact that in Ireland you could be living next door to a convicted rapist or pedophile and there's nothing or no one who will tell you. The Gardai won't tell you, the criminal doesn't have to tell you, unless you go looking for cases you don't know who it is and what they have done to be convicted. Naturally there are high profile cases that are reported but not every rape case or child molester gets publicity.

In the US you have to inform your neighbors within a certain radius that you were convicted of a sex crime and are on the sex offenders register, something Ireland doesn't have either. We have a database of these people but that's it. If I knew my neighbour was a convicted rapist I wouldn't be living in my house anymore to protect my wife more than anything, but I'm not even allowed know a simple yes or no and it's madness. Between a guy who had over 500 child pornography pictures and videos on his laptop and getting 3 years another case I know about which wasn't publicised so i don't think I'm allowed say (but 13 counts of sexual assault to a child) being given 5 years we're too lax on everything in this country. We need change.

Little CuChulainn

Unfortunately people are prone to taking the law into their own hands in cases where sex offenders move into the locality so publishing names and addresses wouldn't really work. And it would panic people unnecessarily. They are monitored by local Gardaí and visited regularly.

hullaballoo

Recidivism rates are low for those types of offences.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Atari Jaguar

Fred Swanson wrote: »

You would have Larry Murphy style witch hunts. Plenty of posts on AH where people discussed "burning him out" and causing him other harm.
Once these people have served their sentences they are entitled to privacy and to rebuild their lives. As stated the re-offending rate is low.

I 100% disagree with that. Sorry but they serve their prison sentence and get out after a few years but the people they affected have a life sentence of hurt and mistrust. To work with children or people who are of a weak state of mind it needs to be disclosed to a prospective employer, why can they live next door to the same group of people and not have to inform them? It's ludicrous surely?


And really do you believe that any poster in AH was going to substantiate those claims of burning down houses etc?

Atari Jaguar

Atari Jaguar wrote: »

I 100% disagree with that. Sorry but they serve their prison sentence and get out after a few years but the people they affected have a life sentence of hurt and mistrust. To work with children or people who are of a weak state of mind it needs to be disclosed to a prospective employer, why can they live next door to the same group of people and not have to inform them? It's ludicrous surely?


And really do you believe that any poster in AH was going to substantiate those claims of burning down houses etc?

Why just sexual offenses? What about murder? Assault causing harm? Fraud? Theft? Public Order Offences? Speeding tickets?

Also there is a qualitative difference between someone being a position of authority over vulnerable people and living near them.

goz83

I just seen a white van drive by my house. That's the second white van in as many weeks. Should I be worried? Maybe I should call the ERU??? :eek:

professore

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why just sexual offenses? What about murder? Assault causing harm? Fraud? Theft? Public Order Offences? Speeding tickets?

Also there is a qualitative difference between someone being a position of authority over vulnerable people and living near them.

I'd say any crime where there is a real physical danger to other people living in the area such as rape, murder, violent assault and battery, breaking and entering etc. I think it would reduce the rates of these type of crimes if you knew your name was going to be on a public register. It would be a big disincentive.

professore

professore wrote: »

I'd say any crime where there is a real physical danger to other people living in the area such as rape, murder, violent assault and battery, breaking and entering etc. I think it would reduce the rates of these type of crimes if you knew your name was going to be on a public register. It would be a big disincentive.

You're wrong. Punishment is rarely if ever a disnincentive to the commission of a crime. Beyond that, the types of criminals least likely to commit another crime are those convicted of murder, violent assault and sexual offences. The recidivism rates for those criminals are at about 23-26% and the vast majority of the offenses those people commit after their release are road traffic offences or public order offences.

Punishments and registers generally don't deter crimes at all. A murderer doesn't think to himself "gosh, if I kill this person it might make buying a house a real issue for me in future cause the neighbors won't be pleased with my status on the register at all".

Ferrari3600

These are our children
They skip down our streets
But the paedophile is waiting!!!

Veloce150

Assuming the OP is motivated to minimise risk rather than to (infinitely?) extend the punishment of offenders. I think the best way for the OP to advance his/her argument would be to compare re-offending rates (for the same class of offence) in countries that have public registers to those that don't.

GerardKeating

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Unfortunately people are prone to taking the law into their own hands in cases where sex offenders move into the locality so publishing names and addresses wouldn't really work. And it would panic people unnecessarily. They are monitored by local Gardaí and visited regularly.

There was a case in the UK many years ago, a mob marched on the house of a suspected pedophile, and ran them out of town, they figured on they were a pedophile from the brass plate on the house with "pedophile" on it, only it was Ppediatrician" not "pedophile"....

IsaacWunder

GerardKeating wrote: »

There was a case in the UK many years ago, a mob marched on the house of a suspected pedophile, and ran them out of town, they figured on they were a pedophile from the brass plate on the house with "pedophile" on it, only it was Ppediatrician" not "pedophile"....

Yeah, I remember that. And yet people were surprised by Brexit

Victor

professore wrote: »

I'd say any crime where there is a real physical danger to other people living in the area such as rape, murder, violent assault and battery, breaking and entering etc.

Most murders and rapes are committed by 'friends' and family of the victim.

Interestingly, your list of crimes are 'poor people's crimes'. What about punishing 'rich people's crimes'?

lawred2

Fred Swanson wrote: »

You would have Larry Murphy style witch hunts. Plenty of posts on AH where people discussed "burning him out" and causing him other harm.
Once these people have served their sentences they are entitled to privacy and to rebuild their lives. As stated the re-offending rate is low.

Entitled?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Peregrinus

Victor wrote: »

Most murders and rapes are committed by 'friends' and family of the victim.

This is also true of sexual assaults and child sexual assaults.

Completely lacking in this discussion is any attempt to show that sex offender registers, notification requirements, etc actually do anything to make anyone safer. There is plenty of experience in the US with various state-based sex offender registration/notifications systems, and outcomes can be measured by comparing with other states that have different systems, or no systems.

Given that they're a significant restriction on liberty, I don't think we should introduce them unless, at the very least, there is some evidence to show that they actually work. (Assumptions that they must work, or arguments that they should work, are not the same thing.)

El_Duderino 09

Atari Jaguar wrote:

I'm mainly talking about the fact that in Ireland you could be living next door to a convicted rapist or pedophile and there's nothing or no one who will tell you. The Gardai won't tell you, the criminal doesn't have to tell you, unless you go looking for cases you don't know who it is and what they have done to be convicted. Naturally there are high profile cases that are reported but not every rape case or child molester gets publicity.

You're talking about 2 separate issues here. 1 is making criminals disclose their crimes to the neighbours. 2 is sentencing. It doesn't help to conflate them into one issue because they're not related.

Why would you want to know about sex crimes more than burgling or drink/drugs related convictions or embezzlement?

You say you wouldn't live next to a sex offender. Does that mean you would sell up and move or you would encourage the neighbour to move?

I wouldn't want a law that makes only one type of criminal disclose their crimes. It can easily lead to trouble and has little chance of preventing harm.

El_Duderino 09

Deleted User wrote:

Punishments and registers generally don't deter crimes at all. A murderer doesn't think to himself "gosh, if I kill this person it might make buying a house a real issue for me in future cause the neighbors won't be pleased with my status on the register at all".

This is exactly it. Sexual offended usually have below average intelligence and impulse control problems and few coping strategies. The subset of people who have those desires to commit sexual offences and are stupid are the ones who are likely to act on it in the first place.

In other words they're not thinking ahead in any aspect of life. Prison isn't a deterrent any more than getting a mortgage is an incentive

Victor

I'm wondering, why would anyone actually want to know where a sex offender lives?

Two things come to mind:
1. They want to engage in a misguided revenge fantasy.
2. They themselves want to engage in sex offences and want to cooperate.

Denny_Crane

I saw this very question posed to a mid-level guard at a lecture. His reply was very well considered and quite frank. To paraphrase: We know who these people are, where they are and we keep a very close eye on them. Notifying people generally not only causes them to go to ground and become more difficult to track but has potentially lead to them committing crimes for various reasons.

Contrary to popular belief quite a few people involved in the criminal justice system actually think these things through in quite some detail, occasionally - and I use that word deliberately - relying on peer reviewed research.

infogiver

Victor wrote: »

I'm wondering, why would anyone actually want to know where a sex offender lives?

Two things come to mind:
1. They want to engage in a misguided revenge fantasy.
2. They themselves want to engage in sex offences and want to cooperate.

Lots of people have a fixed idea that if they only knew where the sex offenders actually lived then they could take steps to prevent themselves and their loved ones being ever attacked by a paedophile or rapist
They cannot process the information that the vast amount of sex offenders have not been nor will ever be identified, or caught or punished so move amongst us anonymously.
So many families in Ireland are protecting a sex offender but this information is so unpalatable that it's disregarded
So much easier to believe that only priests and swimming coaches are paedophiles, and only Larry Murphy is a rapist.