Hill sheep farming

farmerjoe50

Read in farmers journal about how not enough young people into hill sheep farming and how flocks taken off hills lose their memory of land or as farmers in UK call it hefting. Can people who know a thing or two about hill sheep farming post tips and tricks of the trade if they know any. Purely out of interest

390kid

I know in my area theiving them was the biggest reason the hills commonages aren't stocked as heavy. Don't know many tricks or tips other than marking them and grabbing their ears if that's any help

evolving_doors

My phone just randomly went on to this thread post... the only farming qualification I have is being related to them!

But coincidentally enough.... I remember seeing a TV show (maybe ear to the ground type thing) a few years ago and they were asking a lad how he stops the sheep getting lost on the hills!( is this what you're asking? )
He said he puts down treacle (or maybe molasses! ) on his field at the Base of the mountain every now and again... then he said they always returned to that area looking for their fix.

Urban legend or truth I don't know.

farmerjoe50

Gebgbegb wrote: »

My phone just randomly went on to this thread post... the only farming qualification I have is being related to them!

But coincidentally enough.... I remember seeing a TV show (maybe ear to the ground type thing) a few years ago and they were asking a lad how he stops the sheep getting lost on the hills!( is this what you're asking? )
He said he puts down treacle (or maybe molasses! ) on his field at the Base of the mountain every now and again... then he said they always returned to that area looking for their fix.

Urban legend or truth I don't know.

Good advice. I was thinking more along the lines of Blackface mountain sheep having white on their noses that usually gets whiter with age. A guideline that may or may not apply to all strains.

farmerjoe50

Good book I'm reading at the moment called the shepherds life by James rebanks. Lots of basic information about farming life on commonage land.

farmerjoe50

Bracken is an unwanted plant in commonage for many reasons. It hosts the sheep tick which transfers disease across flocks as well as providing shade for more productive species that sheep could otherwise utilize such as young heather shoots

MayoAreMagic

What do you want to know about it? How they get them to stay in a certain place is it?
Most will be trained in a place by their mothers as lambs. But generally, say if someone bought 10 hoggets or something, what I would do is for a start, not put them out until there is some growth, i.e. so they don't go wandering looking for food. Another thing would be to mix them in with your other animals so they might follow them and pick up their habits. And finally, just try to keep tabs on them - go for a walk once a week and drive them into the area where you want them. Id do that without the dog, so its nice and calm and they are relaxed. Let them eat a bit there, maybe even throw a lick block or a bit of meal at them (shouldn't need to but it is an option). Sheep are creatures of habit, they will stay around where they are trained 95% of the time.

PS, know the farmers around you on the commonage. Help them out, and tell them where you seen their stock. Over time you will be paid back with their help when you are missing something.

farmerjoe50

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

What do you want to know about it? How they get them to stay in a certain place is it?
Most will be trained in a place by their mothers as lambs. But generally, say if someone bought 10 hoggets or something, what I would do is for a start, not put them out until there is some growth, i.e. so they don't go wandering looking for food. Another thing would be to mix them in with your other animals so they might follow them and pick up their habits. And finally, just try to keep tabs on them - go for a walk once a week and drive them into the area where you want them. Id do that without the dog, so its nice and calm and they are relaxed. Let them eat a bit there, maybe even throw a lick block or a bit of meal at them (shouldn't need to but it is an option). Sheep are creatures of habit, they will stay around where they are trained 95% of the time.

PS, know the farmers around you on the commonage. Help them out, and tell them where you seen their stock. Over time you will be paid back with their help when you are missing something.

Thats exactly the sort of thing I was looking for, the treacle advice is good too. My main aim of starting this thread was to exchange knowledge on hill sheep industry as its a dying art that must be preserved in the future. If ewes lose their memory of hill when they're gone it won't be easy task getting it back

farmerjoe50

Condition at mating greatly influences litter size in months of Sept and Oct, especially in hill sheep as their lack of nutrition often leads to barren ewes that grow too fat. Research from Teagasc shows relationship between ovulations and condition more pronounced in blackface ewes

farmerjoe50

Any advice is welcome. The more the merrier

MayoAreMagic

farmerjoe50 wrote: »

Condition at mating greatly influences litter size in months of Sept and Oct, especially in hill sheep as their lack of nutrition often leads to barren ewes that grow too fat. Research from Teagasc shows relationship between ovulations and condition more pronounced in blackface ewes

Natural selection at work Id imagine. Id generally prefer singles though; it is far less hassle. Singles will be reared on the hill no problem, you wont have to look at them until October and the ewe will come in in good health too - minimum input. In fact some of my neighbours would split twins and sell one of them as a foster lamb as a rule.
There was a good dry spell coming up to tipping this year, Id say there could be a lot of twins next spring.

MayoAreMagic

farmerjoe50 wrote: »

Bracken is an unwanted plant in commonage for many reasons. It hosts the sheep tick which transfers disease across flocks as well as providing shade for more productive species that sheep could otherwise utilize such as young heather shoots

I believe there is research to suggest that it is also carcinogenic..

I think some amount of gorse is a good thing on a commonage - just not too thick. It is virtually always in bloom, and the flowers are actually reasonably high in protein. Plus it offers shelter from the elements, and it is actually nitrogen fixing, i.e. it takes nitrogen from the air, and when it dies releases it into the ground. Funnily enough, so is the gunnera that is classed as an invasive species now, which sheep also love. Really and truly, they don't need to be spending fortunes on eradication plans, they just need to stock the area with sheep.

farmerjoe50

The coarse wool of Mayo Blackface sheep make them more adept to higher altitudes where they would be open to the elements. Generally sheep with short/fine wool such as Suffolks and Charollais are unsuitable for mountain land. Hiltex ewes are an option as I find they are the hardiest of lowland breeds

joe35

Found if putting sheep to the hill and using meal to keep them in a certain area doesn't work as they end up following you back down the mountain and lie round the gate. Better dodging them up nice and handy once or twice a week for the first few weeks

ganmo

joe35 wrote: »

Found if putting sheep to the hill and using meal to keep them in a certain area doesn't work as they end up following you back down the mountain and lie round the gate. Better dodging them up nice and handy once or twice a week for the first few weeks

How about lick buckets?

Buford T. Justice XIX

A bit from the Examiner on Hill sheep farming and it's not very encouraging.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/farming/news/our-hill-farms-will-be-abandoned-unless-upland-agriculture-practices-change-443612.html

rangler1

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

A bit from the Examiner on Hill sheep farming and it's not very encouraging.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/farming/news/our-hill-farms-will-be-abandoned-unless-upland-agriculture-practices-change-443612.html

Lowland farms'll be at risk if they keep going the way they are.....

Inchilad

Buford T. Justice V wrote:

A bit from the Examiner on Hill sheep farming and it's not very encouraging.

hill sheep farmers with average income of €14,743 got subsidies of various kinds amounting to €18,301.

This means that their farming operations lost €3,568, on average. Can some one explain this to me?

ganmo

Inchilad wrote: »

hill sheep farmers with average income of €14,743 got subsidies of various kinds amounting to €18,301.

This means that their farming operations lost €3,568, on average. Can some one explain this to me?

It means they got 18k from gov but avg income of 15k
So without subsidies they'd loose 3k per annum

Inchilad

ganmo wrote:

It means they got 18k from gov but avg income of 15k So without subsidies they'd loose 3k per annum

Ah simple when its explained.thanks.

cuff92

Well I can't see it being any good for a hill farmer this year looking at the price a lamb now I don't think there'll be any men looking for store lambs this year like the last few years..

It'll be interesting whatll happen on the hills the next 10 years. I'd say there'll be a few men getting bigger and alot a men saying I'm not fit for that crack any more.

Ard_MC

cuff92 wrote: »

Well I can't see it being any good for a hill farmer this year looking at the price a lamb now I don't think there'll be any men looking for store lambs this year like the last few years..

It'll be interesting whatll happen on the hills the next 10 years. I'd say there'll be a few men getting bigger and alot a men saying I'm not fit for that crack any more.

Thinking the exact same thing. So debating finishing a few of them. But looking at prices at xmas this yr, be a waste of time.

IH784man

Every year is different,next year might be the year the money will be in them,with most remembering this year a few chancy or cheap pens of stores could be bought,that's the way I'd look at maybe I'm wrong

farmerjoe50

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

A bit from the Examiner on Hill sheep farming and it's not very encouraging.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/farming/news/our-hill-farms-will-be-abandoned-unless-upland-agriculture-practices-change-443612.html

I think this article emphasizes the fact that mountain lamb need to be marketed
right. If there is no distinction then there is no way it can remain sustainable in the future

Inchilad

farmerjoe50 wrote:

I think this article emphasizes the fact that mountain lamb need to be marketed right. If there is no distinction then there is no way it can remain sustainable in the future

If it got marketed at all it would probably help.agree that it needs to be marketed specifically as mountain reared lamb

farmerjoe50

Interesting read

https://www.teagasc.ie/media/website/publications/2011/1839/ManagementHillSheepFlockLeenane.pdf

Inchilad

farmerjoe50 wrote:

Interesting read

Was indeed.