Galway Hurlers Inequality

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/1213/838460-galway/

A motion requesting that Galway senior, under 21 and minor hurling teams compete "in a single provincial hurling structure" with immediate effect was passed at the county convention on Monday night.

The motion, proposed by the Liam Mellows club, was unanimously given approval by all 253 delegates and now will be on the agenda at the GAA Congress in February.

The Galway senior hurlers joined the Leinster championship in 2009 but they have yet to be granted a home game in the competition.

To further clarify the motion and what it might mean for Galway in the future, John Hynes, Galway county sectretary told RTÉ Radio 1's Morning Ireland: "The Liam Mellows motion proposed a change to the Rule 6.28 to allow all Galway inter-county teams participate fully in all relevant tier 1 competitions in a single provincial system and structure.

"It doesn't specify what province - but that all of our teams should participate in province at a competitive level.

"After the overwhelming endorsement of the motion at our convention, it will now go forward as Galway's motion to Congress as a proposed amendment to Rule 6.28.

"Should the motion be approved at Congress, then under Rule 3.40g, it shall become operative in 30 days.

When asked which province (Leinster or Munster) he would like Galway to be playing in, Hynes added: "I believe from a national level and looking at the big picture, it would be to the detriment of hurling overall if one province became the main province for All-Ireland contenders and the other was weak."

What does everyone make of this? Any suggestions for compromise you could think of?

keeponhurling

The no home game thing surely isn't that much of a biggie, can understand that people want the Leisnter championship to be played in Leinster. Travelling to Tullamore, or Portlaoise is very doable.
As comparison, Clare never play Munster championship games at home, nor do Waterford etc.

On the issue of their minor, U21 and other teams - why are they not in Leinster too? Is it Leinster won't let them in, and if so why not ?

blue note

I have a few thoughts on it.

1. The Provincial Structure should be abolished for hurling. Just about everyone I know would prefer an open draw - being from Waterford I'd love to play Dublin, Galway, Wexford more. Kilkenny not so much. But assuming we keep it....
2. Since they can cater for home and away games they should be allowed to make those arrangements. Both sets of fans prefer them, the only ones who lose out are the Leinster council who'll have to give more of the revenue to Galway.
3. Of course their minors and U21s should be allowed into Leinster. It will make it more difficult for all counties to win the Championship and to progress further in the All Ireland, but it would be a fairer system for everyone and would benefit the hurling in all the counties. Wexford mightn't have won as many U21s in recent years had they had to contend with Galway, but they'd be better prepared for senior at the end of it from the extra games against good opposition.
4. The payments to Galway are a disgrace. €3.5m in revenue and payments of about €120k? That's just taking advantage of them.
5. Their clubs should also have to go through Leinster. It would just be fairer for everyone. Munster and Leinster clubs have to battle through a province to get to the semi finals - they should have to too. I'm less concerned about the Antrim team because they're less of a threat (yes I know they've won an AI recently and no Waterford team did).

keeponhurling

keeponhurling wrote: »

The no home game thing surely isn't that much of a biggie, can understand that people want the Leisnter championship to be played in Leinster. Travelling to Tullamore, or Portlaoise is very doable.
As comparison, Clare never play Munster championship games at home, nor do Waterford etc.

On the issue of their minor, U21 and other teams - why are they not in Leinster too? Is it Leinster won't let them in, and if so why not ?

I think the general consensus is, Galway playing in the underage championships will halt the progress of their own counties teams and it purely selfish reasoning behind them not be allowed in.

Agree wholeheartedly regarding the home and away issue. I do think if we commit to Leinster fully, we should be treated with parity in terms of funding. The amount of money we have generated for Leinster and what we have received in return has been nothing short of a joke.

Rasputin11

peterswellman wrote: »

I think the general consensus is, Galway playing in the underage championships will halt the progress of their own counties teams and it purely selfish reasoning behind them not be allowed in.

The same counties that will moan about being stuck in Division 1B and not getting enough games against the strong counties. When playing against Galway at underage level would improve their own hurlers.

MfMan

blue note wrote: »

I have a few thoughts on it.

1. The Provincial Structure should be abolished for hurling. Just about everyone I know would prefer an open draw - being from Waterford I'd love to play Dublin, Galway, Wexford more. Kilkenny not so much. But assuming we keep it....
2. Since they can cater for home and away games they should be allowed to make those arrangements. Both sets of fans prefer them, the only ones who lose out are the Leinster council who'll have to give more of the revenue to Galway.
3. Of course their minors and U21s should be allowed into Leinster. It will make it more difficult for all counties to win the Championship and to progress further in the All Ireland, but it would be a fairer system for everyone and would benefit the hurling in all the counties. Wexford mightn't have won as many U21s in recent years had they had to contend with Galway, but they'd be better prepared for senior at the end of it from the extra games against good opposition.
4. The payments to Galway are a disgrace. €3.5m in revenue and payments of about €120k? That's just taking advantage of them.
5. Their clubs should also have to go through Leinster. It would just be fairer for everyone. Munster and Leinster clubs have to battle through a province to get to the semi finals - they should have to too. I'm less concerned about the Antrim team because they're less of a threat (yes I know they've won an AI recently and no Waterford team did).

Home and away games can be a bit of a red herring; I think Galway have played most of their Leinster c'ship games at neutral venues. (This year's match v Westmeath was a rare exception). What happens to gate revenues for these neutral matches? How much does the Leinster county receive from it?

As I've said here before, Tullamore is at least as accessible for most of Galway hurling heartland supporters as is Salthill.

adrian522

If Galway are to have home games they will have to enter into Home and away arrangements. That would mean games in Nowlan Park, Wexford Park etc. in alternate years.

They really need to get rid of the farce of the provincial championships.

Hulk Hands

MfMan wrote: »

As I've said here before, Tullamore is at least as accessible for most of Galway hurling heartland supporters as is Salthill.

Maybe if you're the stereotypical GAA couple bringing the two kids along in the car. But for anyone else it's far easier to get public transport into Galway than Tullamore, and half the young adults from those areas are already living in or around the city. Kind of annoying the constant criticism Salthill gets, nearly always about the traffic issues. The positives are never mentioned, such as it being far easier to get the other half or kids to a city for a day out than the likes of Tullamore, or easier for non driving elderly to access, or having the chance to solicialise the day of/night before in a great city rather than a backwater town

howiya

keeponhurling wrote: »

The no home game thing surely isn't that much of a biggie, can understand that people want the Leisnter championship to be played in Leinster. Travelling to Tullamore, or Portlaoise is very doable.
As comparison, Clare never play Munster championship games at home, nor do Waterford etc.

On the issue of their minor, U21 and other teams - why are they not in Leinster too? Is it Leinster won't let them in, and if so why not ?

A Dub here and when Galway first entered the Leinster Championship I would have held the view that Leinster Championship games should be held in Leinster and would still hold this view.

However in recent years the Leinster Council have fixed games in the round robin for Tralee and Antrim etc.

All games should be in Leinster but if Kerry and Antrim can get home games then Galway should too. However my preference would be that all games take place within the province.

BENDYBINN

Galway should pull out now Having to play Kilkenny twice to win an all ireland has proven to be a disaster for Galway.GOing fresh into a quarter final is the way to go.

MfMan

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Maybe if you're the stereotypical GAA couple bringing the two kids along in the car. But for anyone else it's far easier to get public transport into Galway than Tullamore, and half the young adults from those areas are already living in or around the city. Kind of annoying the constant criticism Salthill gets, nearly always about the traffic issues. The positives are never mentioned, such as it being far easier to get the other half or kids to a city for a day out than the likes of Tullamore, or easier for non driving elderly to access, or having the chance to solicialise the day of/night before in a great city rather than a backwater town

But there are a lot of stereotypical couples going to matches with 2 kids in the car, and I'm sure there are a lot of young adults living in other urban areas besides Galway city. It's a great city to socialise in, but that's not the point here. The criticism Salthill receives for traffic issues is very justified; I was at the Connacht final in July and waited for a good two hours after the game was over, to watch the Munster final in a pub and have a bite to eat. It still took me 3/4 of an hour to get from Salthill to the Briarhill roundabout. (Granted the horrible day made things worse than normal.) It can be slower to get out of Galway city the few days of a big match than to get out of Dublin on AI final day. Remember the park-and-ride fiasco from the airport a couple of years back? For many Galway GAA fans east of the Corrib, the very fact that a game is being played in Pearse stadium makes them thing twice about attending. It sometimes does for me and I know the routes and where to park better than most.

There are positives for going to Galway city the day of a game, but for pure accessibilty reasons it ranks well down the list.

Dyr

Doing away with the provincial championship would be the obvious choice but people will whinge about losing the munster final.

keeponhurling

The fact that there's even a debate about whether Salthill or Tullamore is a handier venue for Galway to play hurling matches in, means playing in Tullamore is no big grievance.

and of course Tullamore is always more convenient for the opponent, if they are a county from Leinster.

Hulk Hands

keeponhurling wrote: »

The fact that there's even a debate about whether Salthill or Tullamore is a handier venue for Galway to play hurling matches in, means playing in Tullamore is no big grievance.

and of course Tullamore is always more convenient for the opponent, if they are a county from Leinster.

That debate is whether or not its more convenient to drive there for a portion of supporters that live in South East Galway.

All other supporters, the team, management, County Board and Sponsors all want games in Salthill, not to mention other benefits like providing a rival to the Rugby takeover in the city for new fans, and the benefits to business in the area

Boom__Boom

Saw the below in an article and when you look at the figures it's clear why Galway aren't happy. Throw in the fact that the likes of Kerry and Antrim have gotten home games and the fact that the underage Galway teams aren't allowed take part, it's clear that the Leinster counties aren't playing fair.

Galway play the majority of their games in Tullamore or Croke Park and get little revenue from the arrangement, which has become a issue.

A Galway County Board meeting in September heard that some €3.47m was generated by Championship and Walsh Cup games involving Galway over a seven-year period but they only received €130,000.

There's also a big difference in Galway's record playing at Salthill compared to neutral or away venues.

Galway have won just 10 of their 24 games played in neutral venues, a 42 per cent success rate. Galway’s form in Salthill is more impressive. They have won 13 of their 18 home games (72 per cent) since 2009.

MfMan

Hulk Hands wrote: »

That debate is whether or not its more convenient to drive there for a portion of supporters that live in South East Galway.

All other supporters, the team, management, County Board and Sponsors all want games in Salthill, not to mention other benefits like providing a rival to the Rugby takeover in the city for new fans, and the benefits to business in the area

I live in northern Galway, 15 miles from the edge of the city, and, courtesy of the motorway, can be parked in Tullamore within 70 minutes. (This figure may lessen again when the new section between Gort and Tuam is opened.) It would take me a similar time to reach Pearse stadium.

Yes, of course we want home games, and your point about rivalling rugby in the city is valid, but I think the majority of Galway fans would prefer to go to Tuam/Athenry if feasible for home games instead of Salthill.

Utopia Parkway

In Galway hurling circles I actually think the underage teams being full participants in a provincial championship is a much bigger deal than the Galway seniors having home games even though the home game issue seems to be picked up on more by the national media. That said there is no doubt that Galway are being treated as a cash cow by Leinster and are getting very little back in return.

Bonniedog

I think of the leading Leinster teams only Dublin and Wexford have a home and away arrangement? Although they played in Kilkenny in 2007 and 2009 so not sure actually how that works!

Home advantage only really applies in the qualifiers anyway, as nearly all provincial matches at senior level are in neutral venues.

Anyway as others have said, the provincial system is a bit of a joke at this stage. Sure even Munster people will quote stats on what a disadvantage winningit is!

Under 21s this year proved it to be a farce.

Rumpy Pumpy

keeponhurling wrote: »

The fact that there's even a debate about whether Salthill or Tullamore is a handier venue for Galway to play hurling matches in, means playing in Tullamore is no big grievance.

and of course Tullamore is always more convenient for the opponent, if they are a county from Leinster.

I'd rather drive to Croke Park from Portumna or Loughrea than have to attend a match in Salthill. A terrible venue for facilities, parking and access.

BENDYBINN

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

I'd rather drive to Croke Park from Portumna or Loughrea than have to attend a match in Salthill. A terrible venue for facilities, parking and access.

Yea but look at the advantage Galway would have playing in pearse stadium
Home advantage is huge in any sport.Ten thousand fans are within walking distance of it.

Davys Fits

The home and away think is getting away from the point. The last time Clare played a home game in Munster was in 1986 to my knowledge. Whats wrong with neutral venues? But I think Galway should be allowed into Leinster or Munster for that mater at all levels.

Utopia Parkway

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

I'd rather drive to Croke Park from Portumna or Loughrea than have to attend a match in Salthill. A terrible venue for facilities, parking and access.

Facilities are fine there in fairness. It's one of the better GAA grounds in the country. Parking and access are undoubtedly the big problems there.

TCDStudent1

i really don't care about the home game thing. There are far better venues in Leinster for hurling matches than Salthill.

However, not letting teenagers compete in a championship is small minded and petty. That is the issue that Galway should cause uproar about

nice_guy80

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Yea but look at the advantage Galway would have playing in pearse stadium
Home advantage is huge in any sport.Ten thousand fans are within walking distance of it.

Galway City people don't support GAA teams

TCDStudent1

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Galway City people don't support GAA teams

I think that must be changing. More city players on football panel than ever I think.

But yeah your point is valid. I'm not at all convinced that any more Galway supporters would go to Pearse than tullamore.....

HanaleiJ5N

Davys Fits wrote: »

The home and away think is getting away from the point. The last time Clare played a home game in Munster was in 1986 to my knowledge. Whats wrong with neutral venues? But I think Galway should be allowed into Leinster or Munster for that mater at all levels.

Nah I remember ye beat us in Ennis in 1993 (but even at that your point still stands!)

They should be free to enter into arrangements with other county's but in Leinster the only county's that makes sense with are Offaly and Laois. Maybe Dublin as the motorway between the two shortens the time of the long journey but games with Kilkenny and Wexford on the other hand would have to be neutral, a long trek involved there for away fans, best to meet halfway.

Were Galway in Munster, they could definitely enter home/away arrangements with Clare, Limerick and Tipperary whereas ties with Cork and Waterford would be better suited to Thurles or Limerick.

If they want home/away agreements they should press on with the idea of entering Munster. Whatever happens, as you say, it's about time their underage teams are welcomed into the same province as their seniors.

Rumpy Pumpy

Is this a motion that will have to go through Congress?

marvin80

Bambi wrote: »

Doing away with the provincial championship would be the obvious choice but people will whinge about losing the munster final.

Any hurling fan from Munster will tell you how special the Munster championship and especially the final is so we'd be right to complain if provincial championships are abolished.
It doesn't mean it will stop it from happening but that bit of magic will be lost.

adrian522

To be honest it hasn't been overly special the last few years. It's been pretty mediocre to be honest. Also why don't Kerry go back into Munster? Are they not special enough?

marvin80

The sweeper system is ruining the spectacle of hurling alright but generally it's a lot better than most of the other provincial championships for entertainment and competitiveness.

blue note

Pretty much all Munster hurling people I talk to enjoy the championship but it's completely lost that magic. The fact of the matter is you can lose it and still win the all Ireland. In didn't enjoy losing the final this year, but I felt afterwards that it wasn't knockout and we'll have another day. I also heard one of the players afterwards who didn't sound too downbeat - just a lost game, they were still in the competition.

Virtually everyone I know is in favour of an open draw. I think the provincial councils are just nervous of it.

marvin80

adrian522 wrote: »

Also why don't Kerry go back into Munster? Are they not special enough?

Realistically they probably don't fancy being hammered by the other teams in Munster in hurling so playing through the qualifier group in Leinster is a better option for them at the moment.

adrian522

marvin80 wrote: »

The sweeper system is ruining the spectacle of hurling alright but generally it's a lot better than most of the other provincial championships for entertainment and competitiveness.

Well in fairness

it's a lot better than most of the other provincial championships for entertainment and competitiveness

is a pretty low bar to set.

The Leinster championship no longer exists really. Winning Leinster doesn't mean anything other than a shortcut into the semi final.

The Round Robin is almost like a separate championship in itself. The competition proper doesn't get going until Late July/August.

Very few teams would celebrate a provincial win as a successful season. They should just be done with it. It's not like Tipp would never play Clare under a new system. The same rivalries would still exist and new ones would come about.

It's pretty ridiculous how little certain teams play each other due to the provincial system.

adrian522

marvin80 wrote: »

Realistically they probably don't fancy being hammered by the other teams in Munster in hurling so playing through the qualifier group in Leinster is a better option for them at the moment.

But it makes a mockery of the idea that we have a provincial system. The "Leinster" championship has teams from all the provinces and the Munster championship doesn't even have all the Munster teams.

While I'm ranting why should the Leinster champions get a bye into the semi finals? It's not like there aren't enough teams for 4 quarter finals. Also move the Leinster final out of Croke Park.

marvin80

Some good points and the GAA do need to shake things up a bit. Be interesting to see what happens, if anything over the next few years anyway.

red_diesel

Open draw. Simple solution.

At this stage the provincials are holding back hurling. I can't understand why they at least don't go open draw for the 21's championship. The provincials are hardly sacrosanct at that grade seeing its only around since the 60's. The situation where a team like Antrim which year on year totally disrespects that championship yet are gifted a place in the semi is beyond a joke.

Davys Fits

I think the Leinster c'ship may get intersting over the next few years with KK in decline and a number of teams on the rise. That would make 2 competitive provinces, no more than we have in football. Even with an open draw the standard in Connacht and Ulster will not improve. In fact a competitive Ulster c'ship in hurling would raise all teams there. My point is that there are not enough top teams to have more than 2 quality provincial c'ships so having an open draw for the sake of change may not make much difference. That said Galway, Antrim etc need to be accommodated in these provinces.

adrian522

Who are these improving teams? And how much do you expect Kilkenny to decline?

I'd be surprised in anyone other than Kilkenny or Galway wins Leinster in the next 5 years.

blue note

adrian522 wrote: »

Who are these improving teams? And how much do you expect Kilkenny to decline?

I'd be surprised in anyone other than Kilkenny or Galway wins Leinster in the next 5 years.

Dublin will probably be in this mix too and Wexford could make the jump up to be outside contenders for Leinster. They have some way to go to be a really serious team, but with some improvement I could imagine them putting a couple of results together against KK, Galway, Dublin. But the problem from a fairness point of view with the Leinster Championship is that for as long as I've been watching hurling it's been weaker than the Munster Championship while offering the same rewards. I started going to games in 98 and from that point on there were pretty much always 5 good Munster teams. Counties have dipped for a season or two every once in a while, but basically Munster has had 5 strong teams for that period of time.

Leinster on the other hand had 3 strong teams in 98. After Offaly's last final appearance they've been in steady decline since. From a couple of years into the noughties they were a relatively easy fixture for a good hurling county. Wexford didn't decline as quickly or as much, but after their 04 heroics they've been a pretty weak team relative to the Munster counties too. Dublin came good and Galway were added around the same time, but still it's left the province with 3 good teams, the rest weak. Which means that if you're lucky with the draw you'll find yourself in an AI quarter final at least without having to beat anyone decent. I think Galway got there before on foot of beating Westmeath / Laois. This just isn't fair. If Wexford improve it'll be closer to being even, but why not just abolish the provincial system altogether and give no counties an advantage or disadvantage based on where they're located?

The Lost Sheep

keeponhurling wrote: »

The no home game thing surely isn't that much of a biggie, can understand that people want the Leisnter championship to be played in Leinster. Travelling to Tullamore, or Portlaoise is very doable.
As comparison, Clare never play Munster championship games at home, nor do Waterford etc.

On the issue of their minor, U21 and other teams - why are they not in Leinster too? Is it Leinster won't let them in, and if so why not ?

Leinster teams don't want them in. No home games is a biggie. Clare don't as their stadium isn't big enough compared to others and they don't look for home games. Travelling to Tullamore isn't that doable. Lack of home games is huge.

blue note wrote: »

I have a few thoughts on it.
1. The Provincial Structure should be abolished for hurling. Just about everyone I know would prefer an open draw - being from Waterford I'd love to play Dublin, Galway, Wexford more. Kilkenny not so much. But assuming we keep it....
2. Since they can cater for home and away games they should be allowed to make those arrangements. Both sets of fans prefer them, the only ones who lose out are the Leinster council who'll have to give more of the revenue to Galway.

Provincial championships must be kept. They allow a better championship. That they are played over too many weekends is the biggest issue with them. That it takes 7/8 weeks plus for championships to be played is ridiculous. Play more games on the one weekend. This allows an open draw be played in group format.

3. Of course their minors and U21s should be allowed into Leinster. It will make it more difficult for all counties to win the Championship and to progress further in the All Ireland, but it would be a fairer system for everyone and would benefit the hurling in all the counties. Wexford mightn't have won as many U21s in recent years had they had to contend with Galway, but they'd be better prepared for senior at the end of it from the extra games against good opposition.

Of course they would as its better for all and is fairer for all

howiya wrote: »

A Dub here and when Galway first entered the Leinster Championship I would have held the view that Leinster Championship games should be held in Leinster and would still hold this view.

However in recent years the Leinster Council have fixed games in the round robin for Tralee and Antrim etc.

All games should be in Leinster but if Kerry and Antrim can get home games then Galway should too. However my preference would be that all games take place within the province.

I don't see why all games should have to take place within the province especially as we'll have games in some years where two non Leinster counties will be playing each other.

Bambi wrote: »

Doing away with the provincial championship would be the obvious choice but people will whinge about losing the munster final.

Doing away provincial championships wont improve things. They work and can work with changes to the overall all Ireland title

feargale

Davys Fits wrote: »

I think the Leinster c'ship may get intersting over the next few years with KK in decline and a number of teams on the rise. That would make 2 competitive provinces, no more than we have in football. Even with an open draw the standard in Connacht and Ulster will not improve. In fact a competitive Ulster c'ship in hurling would raise all teams there. My point is that there are not enough top teams to have more than 2 quality provincial c'ships so having an open draw for the sake of change may not make much difference. That said Galway, Antrim etc need to be accommodated in these provinces.

Create a third province with Galway, Antrim, London and New York. Let the winners play the Munster and Leinster champions in alternate years. Ok, Antrim are going through a very lean period but teams come and go.

The Lost Sheep

feargale wrote: »

Create a third province with Galway, Antrim, London and New York. Let the winners play the Munster and Leinster champions in alternate years. Ok, Antrim are going through a very lean period but teams come and go.

How does this improve standards? What benefits does this bring?

beggars_bush

until the Leinster GAA put serious resources into Offaly, Laois, Westmeath, Kildare, Meath hurling then Leinster will need Galway to provide opposition to Kilkenny at adult level

the problem is that Galway underage teams are far too good for the majority the counties listed above
I mean, Westmeath has 15 hurling clubs. Carlow has 12 (I think)
Meath on the other hand has 20+ and should be much stronger
Same for Kildare. The hurling clubs there should be booming due to the all the people moving out from Dublin or up from the country unable to afford housing in Dublin.

there doesn't seem to be any plan to raise hurling standards

TCDStudent1

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

How does this improve standards? What benefits does this bring?

It doesn't bring any benefits. Galway would demolish those teams every year. Creating a Connacht championship in hurling would be equally as good as that suggestion.

beggars_bush

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

It doesn't bring any benefits. Galway would demolish those teams every year. Creating a Connacht championship in hurling would be equally as good as that suggestion.

7 hurling clubs in Roscommon
there are that many hurling clubs in Galway City and west of the corrib
how could they compete with Galway?

Topcat32

beggars_bush wrote: »

until the Leinster GAA put serious resources into Offaly, Laois, Westmeath, Kildare, Meath hurling then Leinster will need Galway to provide opposition to Kilkenny at adult level

the problem is that Galway underage teams are far too good for the majority the counties listed above
I mean, Westmeath has 15 hurling clubs. Carlow has 12 (I think)
Meath on the other hand has 20+ and should be much stronger
Same for Kildare. The hurling clubs there should be booming due to the all the people moving out from Dublin or up from the country unable to afford housing in Dublin.

there doesn't seem to be any plan to raise hurling standards

I think with Dublin dominating the Leinster football championship, hurling might become more attractive for counties like Westmeath and Carlow in particular and possibly meath and Kildare. Carlow and Westmeath teams have beaten Wexford, Kilkenny and Dublin underage teams in this decade so they have done well quite recently. I think they would fancy their chances of having a competitive minor team every couple of years particularly with the change to an under 17 competition.

feargale

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

How does this improve standards? What benefits does this bring?

Galway's most successful decade was when they were neither in Munster nor Leinster.

A third province would give the likes of Antrim and London something realistic to aim at. Yes I know, Antrim are very poor at present but going on the past they will see better times.

Galway have always blamed where they were positioned for their troubles. They went into Munster and came out, then went into Leinster and now want to come out. Ok, if they are to be in Leinster it's unfair that they are not treated like every other county re venues. But that's another story.

I said

Open draw champions league style format 12 teams two groups winners A play runners up group B and vise Versa for semi finals.
Get rid of all the early spring competions move the interprovincials to April/may.All Ireland realistically could be played June July August.
Each county gets at least five games.
Run a secondary competition for weaker counties with promotion/relegation for at least 2 teams every year.
2 worst teams in a/b go down at least it would get rid of a lot of dead rubber games

beggars_bush

Topcat32 wrote: »

I think with Dublin dominating the Leinster football championship, hurling might become more attractive for counties like Westmeath and Carlow in particular and possibly meath and Kildare. Carlow and Westmeath teams have beaten Wexford, Kilkenny and Dublin underage teams in this decade so they have done well quite recently. I think they would fancy their chances of having a competitive minor team every couple of years particularly with the change to an under 17 competition.

so you think a football county like Westmeath, Meath or Kildare are magically going to improve at hurling?
without huge investment in coaching and development of players it won't happen

Topcat32

beggars_bush wrote: »

so you think a football county like Westmeath, Meath or Kildare are magically going to improve at hurling?
without huge investment in coaching and development of players it won't happen

Westmeath have improved at hurling as have Carlow. If you want evidence rather than magic take the example of Mount Leinster Rangers, Carlow IT, Westmeath under 21s, Borris Vocational School and the Naas under 16 team. I guess it depends on your understanding of the word improvement.