Fluke Damage

restive

I got a factory report back on a bullock that rated a 5 for damage to liver. (Worst possible score on a scale of one to five).I gave him trodax in September. I bought him in in July. An animal I bought with him is underperforming. He is near 30 months. Is there any point in treating him with a drench or is the damage done?

Attie

Restive
I always dose as they come in. I always look at the worst scenario, but don't like throwing money away it has proven it's self with good weight gain. If you dose him he I'll be over age and dose will only be starting to work, you will also need to feed the hell out of him.
Not much help but its your call now good luck with it. Attie

The man in red and black

Fluke can be tricky. If giving a drench earlier in the season more important to use a drench that does the immature flukes as they likely won't have adults yet. A negative dung sample only means no adults present. Can take months to get to the adult stage and shedding eggs so could be riddled with immature and still give a negative dung sample.

kk.man

Trodax is a great product for the mature and late stages of Fluke...its not effective for early stages that's where you probably fell down.

restive

kk.man wrote: »

Trodax is a great product for the mature and late stages of Fluke...its not effective for early stages that's where you probably fell down.

What about this time of year? Would all the fluke be mature? They are outwintered.

Attie

Some reading that may be useful.
https://www.teagasc.ie/publications/2016/liver-fluke-will-seriously-damage-your-livestocks-health.php

Attie

greysides

restive wrote: »

I got a factory report back on a bullock that rated a 5 for damage to liver. (Worst possible score on a scale of one to five).I gave him trodax in September. I bought him in in July. An animal I bought with him is underperforming. He is near 30 months. Is there any point in treating him with a drench or is the damage done?

What kind of condition was the slaughtered animal in?
I've seen quite bad lamb livers with the carcase looking fine, not anaemic, not emaciated. Another month and it may have been a different story....

If the two animals were companions then it may not be a fluke problem, especially if the factoried bullock was in good nick.

I've seen Ruminal Fluke show up as a problem of individuals not as a group problem as you'd expect. Zanil has a 28 day meat withdrawal
.
Also chronic lung damage is another cause of poor performance. Sometimes those animals are build up for sale, or sold when looking their best, the new buyer then takes the hit.

Chances are that any fluke he may have come with would have been old enough to have been sorted out by the September dose, or any missed wouldn't be sufficient to be causing problems now.
That then turns the fluke question into one that depends on your local area/situation.

As best I can tell, fluke in the SE is not going to be a major issue this winter but fluke in the NW has been an issue for a long time already this year, so where are you situated?

I presume teeth aren't a problem?

Check for lice too. They can be quite bad in individuals. I remember seeing a funny looking Friesian bullock in the distance one time. A black and white bullock he had a top line of reddish hair along his spine as viewed in silhouette. Turns out the red was all lice eggs in white hair.............. :eek:

greysides

restive wrote: »

What about this time of year? Would all the fluke be mature? They are outwintered.

Out wintered cattle would likely have all stages of fluke in them if the area makes that possible. Did Roscommon have the same wet summer/autumn as Donegal?

Muckit

He farms some callow land as far as I know so fluke would be a problem

Bass Reeves

I always treat cattle for fluke and worms on arrival. At present I use an averrmectin super on arrival. I will then treat again 6'weeks later with Trodax. Fasinex is a great dose but cattle absolutely hate it however some resistance comming to the active ingredient. Alot of the cattle I buy come from this type of land( in general a lot of store's come from this type of land anyway) so I presume the worst . If stores are very backward I dose for rumen fluke.

restive

What kind of condition was the slaughtered animal in?
I've seen quite bad lamb livers with the carcase looking fine, not anaemic, not emaciated. Another month and it may have been a different story....
If the two animals were companions then it may not be a fluke problem, especially if the factoried bullock was in good nick.

They looked healthy with shiny red coats. A Simmental X, 29 Months of age. Killed out at 330kg. Both animals came of the same farm. I got them in the mart. Neither animal kept pace with the cattle around them and are been well fed.
They got Bayticol when I first bought them in. Noromectin Pour-On in September with Trodax and this animal got a shot of Levitas Diamond on the first of November because he looked a little light.

I've seen Ruminal Fluke show up as a problem of individuals not as a group problem as you'd expect. Zanil has a 28 day meat withdrawal
.
Also chronic lung damage is another cause of poor performance. Sometimes those animals are build up for sale, or sold when looking their best, the new buyer then takes the hit.

The sheet from Kepak also includes a lung report and it came back at a 1(which is the best). No report on rumen fluke but he did receive a dose of levitas diamond around the first of November.
rrChances are that any fluke he may have come with would have been old enough to have been sorted out by the September dose, or any missed wouldn't be sufficient to be causing problems now.
That then turns the fluke question into one that depends on your local area/situation.

My local area as Muckit said is Callagh land. Spends half the year under water(except this year which is an exception).

As best I can tell, fluke in the SE is not going to be a major issue this winter but fluke in the NW has been an issue for a long time already this year, so where are you situated?

I am situated 10 miles west of Roscommon town so that puts me in that area.

I presume teeth aren't a problem?

I did not notice any problem with their mouths (no dribbling) and I did check his mouth when dosing.

Check for lice too. They can be quite bad in individuals. I remember seeing a funny looking Friesian bullock in the distance one time. A black and white bullock he had a top line of reddish hair along his spine as viewed in silhouette. Turns out the red was all lice eggs in white hair..............
No lice. Not a problem this year although I did have it last year. But the got Bayticol and Noromectin so anything that was there would have been zapped.
Out wintered cattle would likely have all stages of fluke in them if the area makes that possible. Did Roscommon have the same wet summer/autumn as Donegal?
It was on and of all summer. Periods of rain interrupted by dry spells.

milligan2

I have a 4 year old cow that I noticed with fluke symptoms a few weeks ago.I injected her with trodax and dosed her with zanil a week later but she still isn't showing any signs of recovery.
Is there anymore I can do, or will I give her another couple of weeks to let the doses work?

greysides

Restive, it depends on exact timing but it seems likely that any immature fluke that were missed by Trodax would also have been missed by the Levifas Diamond. What effect that would have would depend on how badly they were infested at the time and what they may have picked up since.
You've covered Ruminal Fluke with Levifas.
It's not possible to give you an answer, only that what you suspect is feasible. Neither is it possible to tell you whether to dose or not. You'll have to make that call yourself. Your local vet should be better positioned to give you guidance.

whelan2

milligan2 wrote: »

I have a 4 year old cow that I noticed with fluke symptoms a few weeks ago.I injected her with trodax and dosed her with zanil a week later but she still isn't showing any signs of recovery.
Is there anymore I can do, or will I give her another couple of weeks to let the doses work?

Is she scoury? Maybe test for johnes

Attie

Had a bullock last year very lose and losing weight vet said he'd a poison ?? asked if he was drinking from stagnant water which he was not gave him a jag put him in house for 2 days on good hay and water he never looked behind him.

greysides

milligan2 wrote: »

I have a 4 year old cow that I noticed with fluke symptoms a few weeks ago.I injected her with trodax and dosed her with zanil a week later but she still isn't showing any signs of recovery.
Is there anymore I can do, or will I give her another couple of weeks to let the doses work?

What symptoms are you noticing? Have you dosed her for worms?

Bass Reeves

When you notice fluke damage you are in trouble. It is very hard to turn cattle around if the liveros damaged. That is why I dose all stores on arrival and at housing . No point in half doing the job. Fluke is not like worms cattle will not gain Immunity to liver fluke. If cattle are not thriving due to fluke it will take ages to turn them around as in 6+months

milligan2

greysides wrote: »

What symptoms are you noticing? Have you dosed her for worms?

Hey Greysides,
The main symptom is weight loss and her skin is stuck into her.I had her in the crush today and she looks a little better and her skin is loosening.I gave her Ivomec super just in case she has worms.Should I give her a second dose of Zanil in a weeks time to clear any remaining fluke?

greysides

Roughly speaking.... adult fluke have been in animal for at least 12 weeks; immature 6 weeks; early immature <6 weeks.
Zanil only kills adults, Fasinex early immatures from 2 weeks and up to adults. Most others, including Trodax, get immatures and up. So unless you've left it more than 6 weeks since using Trodax then Zanil won't have anything to kill.
Wait till 6 weeks after the Trodax and repeat with it. If the animal has been housed in the interim then all fluke will have been killed.

visatorro

Tribex claims to kill three stages of fluke, is this false advertising?!

greysides

It has the same active ingredient as Fasinex so it does as it says.
I'm probably confusing the issue by using trade names instead of the name of the active ingredients. It's how I simplify it for myself. Endex, Endofluke and Cydectin Triclmox all have the same active agent as Fasinex (triclabendazole).
Zanil and Levafas Diamond both use oxyclozanide as their flukicide.