Rent Review due April

mjp

Rent up for review after 2 yrs start of April and received a mail from landlord this morning at 10am stating that he was giving us our minimum 90 days notice as didn't want to be bothering us new years eve. He's proposing an increase of 200e to 1,800euro and quoting current rents in the area @2,000euro. He's also dropped our written notification of this into our letterbox.
Living in Dublin we're affected by this new 4% increase however it looks to me that he's trying to pull a fast one and us to sign upto this agreement before new legislation is put into place.

I checked with prtb on this and they tell me that the 90 days notice can't be given until the 2 year period at current price is up so he can't issue us with new prices until April of next year.

_Kaiser_

Yep, he's chancing his arm.. as I understand it he can tell you in April what the new rent will be and it's 90 days after that, that the new rate comes into effect.

But that was before this morning's news which will change things again in Dublin.

GreenFolder2

Clever of the government to give several months notice for this...

q85dw7osi4lebg

Regardless of when the notice is served, I guess you now have a rough idea of what's going to happen when the time comes around.

Lux23

GreenFolder2 wrote: »

Clever of the government to give several months notice for this...

It will all be legislated for by the end of next week, so no notice has been given at all.

Fian

Under existing law your rent cannot be increased until April, at which point a 90 day notice period applies so the rent increase cannot kick in until July.

Your rent will be €1728 under the new cap. (1600+8%). It is not absolutely clear if 90 days from the rent review date will continue to apply, but presumably it will. This means your increase will kick in at the start of July.

One year later (July 2018) your rent can move to €1797 since you will be moving to annual increases. It can continue to rise by 4% per annum thereafter.

You are one of the fortunate ones who is starting off a low base - because your rent was set almost two years ago the annual 4% is increasing of a (relatively!!) low base compared to other rents in your area. If a rent review took place before the legislation kicked in the 4% cap would be based off a higher rent.

This all assumes that the proposed law announced today comes into effect before the start of April. If not your landlord will probably increase rent as soon as he/she has an opportunity - conscious that they will otherwise be locked into an artificially lower base than some other rentals in the area.

The legislation still has to pass through the Oireachtas and then be signed into law by the President. It is entirely likely that this process will be completed before your rent comes up for review in April. It would appear that there will be no delay in designating rent pressure zones after the law comes into effect since it is proposed that Dublin will be a rent pressure zone immediately without the need for that process to be gone through.

strandsman

mjp wrote: »

Rent up for review after 2 yrs start of April and received a mail from landlord this morning at 10am stating that he was giving us our minimum 90 days notice as didn't want to be bothering us new years eve. He's proposing an increase of 200e to 1,800euro and quoting current rents in the area @2,000euro. He's also dropped our written notification of this into our letterbox.
Living in Dublin we're affected by this new 4% increase however it looks to me that he's trying to pull a fast one and us to sign upto this agreement before new legislation is put into place.

I checked with prtb on this and they tell me that the 90 days notice can't be given until the 2 year period at current price is up so he can't issue us with new prices until April of next year.

Can you give more detail above.
Your rent is up for review in April? Did you move in on same date 2 yrs ago? According to RTB the landlord is entitled to give 90 days notice minimum on rent review/increase and this comes into effect on the date you moved in 2 yrs ago and not in July

_Kaiser_

strandsman wrote: »

Can you give more detail above.
Your rent is up for review in April? Did you move in on same date 2 yrs ago? According to RTB the landlord is entitled to give 90 days notice minimum on rent review/increase and this comes into effect on the date you moved in 2 yrs ago and not in July

Nope.. they can notify that the rent is going up 2 years after the person moved in (in this case, April) but the actual change only takes effect 90 days later (in this case, July)

They can't tell him now/January and increase in April.

strandsman

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Nope.. they can notify that the rent is going up 2 years after the person moved in (in this case, April) but the actual change only takes effect 90 days later (in this case, July)

They can't tell him now/January and increase in April.

"Rent up for review after 2 yrs start of April" I understand that to be the tenancy started in April

_Kaiser_

strandsman wrote: »

"Rent up for review after 2 yrs start of April" I understand that to be the tenancy started in April

Yes, however the review process is apparently such that any review cannot take place until after the 2 year period has passed, and then must give 90 days notice.

It's an odd one I grant you, but apparently that's the way it is.

mjp

strandsman wrote:

Can you give more detail above. Your rent is up for review in April? Did you move in on same date 2 yrs ago? According to RTB the landlord is entitled to give 90 days notice minimum on rent review/increase and this comes into effect on the date you moved in 2 yrs ago and not in July

No we have been tenants there since April 2013 and original agreement was review rent every 2 years. Had increase in April 2015 with next review up 1st April 2017.

davo10

mjp wrote: »

No we have been tenants there since April 2013 and original agreement was review rent every 2 years. Had increase in April 2015 with next review up 1st April 2017.

Though you live in Dublin, it seems it will be up to the RTB to decide on areas for rent control and that is assuming the changes come into effect. Your area is not a designated area until the RTB decides it is and that could take a while.

Thankfully, at last, the RTB have gotten around to clarifying this situation on their website with an example. Op there are two important dates, the rent review date which is the date you were given notice of the impending increase, and the date 90 days later when the increased rent payment came into effect. A review can be done two years to the day since the last one, and the increase can come into effect on the day exactly two years since the last one. So, your LL can issue a new notice 2 years from your last notice, and the increase comes into effect 90 days later. Sounds like they are on the ball.

From the RTB website:

http://www.rtb.ie/dispute-resolution/dispute-resolution/the-three-stages-of-a-tenancy/rent-reviews

Example:

1. A landlord reviews the rent of a dwelling on 1 January 2016 by serving a 90 day notice of rent review indicating that the change will take effect from the 1st April 2016. A subsequent Notice of Rent Review can not issue until 1 January 2018 and must also provide 90 days Notice prior to the change taking effect.

Sad Professor

mjp wrote: »

Rent up for review after 2 yrs start of April and received a mail from landlord this morning at 10am stating that he was giving us our minimum 90 days notice as didn't want to be bothering us new years eve. .

Heh, I'd say he turned on the radio this morning and nearly shat himself.

The government did a pretty good job of keeping this under wraps. For all the difference it will make for tenants outside Dublin.

mjp

The last review we got was 25th Feb 2015 for new price to commence 1st April2015. He claims he didn't want to give us the news at 90 days and ruin our new years eve so he's coming with it early by sending it to us this morning. Think he was hoping that we would agree to it before copping onto the new changes announced lunchtime today hence why he was so quick to give us the new lease agreement.

My question is can he give us the notice today or does he have to wait till after 1st April to issue notice and increase comes into effect 90 days after that or does it have to be 25th Feb he gives us notice as that was when he gave us notice last time.

davo10

mjp wrote: »

The last review we got was 25th Feb 2015 for new price to commence 1st April2015. He claims he didn't want to give us the news at 90 days and ruin our new years eve so he's coming with it early by sending it to us this morning. Think he was hoping that we would agree to it before copping onto the new changes announced lunchtime today hence why he was so quick to give us the new lease agreement.

My question is can he give us the notice today or does he have to wait till after 1st April to issue notice and increase comes into effect 90 days after that or does it have to be 25th Feb he gives us notice as that was when he gave us notice last time.

Example 2 from the RTB page I linked above:

2. A landlord has reviewed the rent of a dwelling on 3 December 2015 (prior to the commencement of the new legislative changes), and served a 28 day notice that the rent was to increase on 1 January 2016. The next rent review notice can not issue until 3 December 2017 and would additionally have to provide 90 days notice prior to the change taking effect, which would be 4 March 2018.

syndrome777

If I could hijack this tread and ask a similar question...

My sister moved in to her apt in August 2014. Since then no new contract od rent increases.
Today (prompted by today's news on rents maybe) she got a text from LL to expect rent increase in April 2017 and then on some later day she will get by post by how much the rent will increase.

My question is...is all the done the proper way. Can the rent be increased at any time if it haven't been increased in 2 years?
If it is announced now for April, will the new !law! affect it or she has to accept this increase now?

athtrasna

Until the legislation is published and then voted on we don't know for certain how the pressure zone limits introduced today will affect either the two years between increases or the 90 day notice.

As it stands if someone moved in on 01 January 2015, the rent cannot be reviewed until 31 December 2016 with 90 days notice of the new rent bringing them up to the end of March before it kicks in, the rent cannot increase on 01 January 2017.

davo10

syndrome777 wrote: »

If I could hijack this tread and ask a similar question...

My sister moved in to her apt in August 2014. Since then no new contract od rent increases.
Today (prompted by today's news on rents maybe) she got a text from LL to expect rent increase in April 2017 and then on some later day she will get by post by how much the rent will increase.

My question is...is all the done the proper way. Can the rent be increased at any time if it haven't been increased in 2 years?
If it is announced now for April, will the new !law! affect it or she has to accept this increase now?

Yip, it's well over two years since last rent review so rent can be increased to market rate giving valid notice (90 days). The draft changes will only effect her if they come into effect before the rent is reviewed, and very importantly, if the RTB designates her area one of the areas where the rent rates increased are to be capped.

Example 6 from RTB website:

Larry and Mary, a couple living in Dublin, with their 3 children, rent their 3 bed house for €1,300 per month. Their last rent review was in September 2013. Upon enactment, Larry and Mary's landlord can initiate a rent review at any time, as it is more than two years since their last rent review.

syndrome777

davo10 wrote: »

Yip, it's well over two years since last rent review so rent can be increased to market rate giving valid notice (90 days). The draft changes will only effect her if they come into effect before the rent is reviewed, and very importantly, if the RTB designates her area one of the areas where the rent rates increased are to be capped.

Example 6 from RTB website:

Larry and Mary, a couple living in Dublin, with their 3 children, rent their 3 bed house for €1,300 per month. Their last rent review was in September 2013. Upon enactment, Larry and Mary's landlord can initiate a rent review at any time, as it is more than two years since their last rent review.

perfect, thank you very much

April 73

syndrome777 wrote: »

If I could hijack this tread and ask a similar question...

My sister moved in to her apt in August 2014. Since then no new contract od rent increases.
Today (prompted by today's news on rents maybe) she got a text from LL to expect rent increase in April 2017 and then on some later day she will get by post by how much the rent will increase.

My question is...is all the done the proper way. Can the rent be increased at any time if it haven't been increased in 2 years?
If it is announced now for April, will the new !law! affect it or she has to accept this increase now?

The LL needs to follow the current legislation to issue a rent review & notification of an increase.
While timing wise, he can do this, a text message is not a rent review. He needs to issue written notification with the correct wording, examples of current market rates & 90 days notice.
Unless that correct written notification is received its not valid & would need to be received before the new legislation is enacted.

I foresee a rush of notifications in the next few days. I have been holding back myself. The last review I did was November 2014 & I will issue a new notification this week.

There is an element of open to interpretation until the legislation is passed. But current legislation is what stands today.

davindub

April 73 wrote: »

The LL needs to follow the current legislation to issue a rent review & notification of an increase.
While timing wise, he can do this, a text message is not a rent review. He needs to issue written notification with the correct wording, examples of current market rates & 90 days notice.
Unless that correct written notification is received its not valid & would need to be received before the new legislation is enacted.

I foresee a rush of notifications in the next few days. I have been holding back myself. The last review I did was November 2014 & I will issue a new notification this week.

There is an element of open to interpretation until the legislation is passed. But current legislation is what stands today.

Exactly.

BTW, if you carry out an invalid review this counts as a review. So you have to wait 24 months after the invalid review. So it is worth doing things correctly.

The OP's review seems premature.

April 73

davindub wrote: »

Exactly.

BTW, if you carry out an invalid review this counts as a review. So you have to wait 24 months after the invalid review. So it is worth doing things correctly.

The OP's review seems premature.

I've been checking on exactly what is needed to constitute a valid review!

I don't think that many people understand an invalid review counts as a review. I've only come across that recently. There must be hundreds of invalid notifications & reissued notifications out there that have been implemented but shouldn't have been.

It really is a case of know your rights & responsibilities as a landlord & a tenant.

Baby01032012

Is there anything to stop me carrying out a rent review in advance of the 2 year rule date but with the new rent coming into effect until 2 years and 3 months from the last review date?

mjp

We did receive written notification yesterday dated 13th December. He claims to have given it to us early as didn't want to ruin our new years eve !!!! Must think we don't watch the news at all or heard of upcoming changes. He has also provided us with 4 sample properties of greater rents in the area.

By issuing this notification before any changes have come into place he is issuing it to us 108 days prior to when the two years are up. Previously he only gave us 36 days notification at time of last increase.

davo10

mjp wrote: »

We did receive written notification yesterday dated 13th December. He claims to have given it to us early as didn't want to ruin our new years eve !!!! Must think we don't watch the news at all or heard of upcoming changes. He has also provided us with 4 sample properties of greater rents in the area.

By issuing this notification before any changes have come into place he is issuing it to us 108 days prior to when the two years are up. Previously he only gave us 36 days notification at time of last increase.

But those rules are not in effect, may not come into effect and at the moment your rental area is not subject to those rules, he is giving you notice in excess of the required 90 days.

Fian

Baby01032012 wrote: »

Is there anything to stop me carrying out a rent review in advance of the 2 year rule date but with the new rent coming into effect until 2 years and 3 months from the last review date?

Yes, you cannot conduct a rent review until 24 months after the previous review.

Anyone who set rent in early 2015 is out of luck with regard to marking it up to current market rents.

davo10

Fian wrote: »

Anyone who set rent in early 2015 is out of luck with regard to marking it up to current market rents.

Why?

Michael D Not Higgins

davo10 wrote: »

Why?

The government are planning to bring in maximum 4% annual increases to rents in certain areas. So if there's been an increase in 2015 they can't increase again until next year and if the new law is in then they're stuck with how much it can be increased.

davo10

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

The government are planning to bring in maximum 4% annual increases to rents in certain areas. So if there's been an increase in 2015 they can't increase again until next year and if the new law is in then they're stuck with how much it can be increased.

I know what was announced but there are a lot of hurdles to jump before "anybody" who planned an increase is effected. By the sounds of things there is a bit of negotiating to be done yet, there is no mention that the cap will apply retrospectively to reviews already served if an area is designated a pressure zone and by the sound of things the zones will be along electoral areas which the RTB are going to have to get around to deciding on. The policy may come into effect but the decisions on zones and how it will be applied may take some time.

DubCount

davo10 wrote: »

I know what was announced but there are a lot of hurdles to jump before "anybody" who planned an increase is effected. By the sounds of things there is a bit of negotiating to be done yet, there is no mention that the cap will apply retrospectively to reviews already served if an area is designated a pressure zone and by the sound of things the zones will be along electoral areas which the RTB are going to have to get around to deciding on. The policy may come into effect but the decisions on zones and how it will be applied may take some time.

I think you are missing the point. Under the current legislation, a LL cant issue a rent review within 2 years of the last rent review.

In property 1, the LL issued the last rent review in November 2014. That LL can issue a Rent review to current market value, and can issue 4% increases on current market value when the next review comes around.

In property 2, the LL issued the last rent review in March 2015. This LL cant issue a rent review until March 2017, by which time the new rules apply, and that LL can only increase rent by 4% of whatever was agreed 2 years ago.

Any landlord with a property 2, is being disadvantaged by thousands of euro relative to those landlords with a property 1. 2 identical properties, with similar tenants etc., and a massive gap in how much income the LLs are allowed to earn.

davindub

Baby01032012 wrote: »

Is there anything to stop me carrying out a rent review in advance of the 2 year rule date but with the new rent coming into effect until 2 years and 3 months from the last review date?

Yes you cannot review the rent until 24 months have passed. The rent review is supposed to be where you review the market for the current rate that matches your property, so timing is important.