Break the law says my insurance company

bog master

Insure expires in 4 days. Haggled with current insurer with no joy, so new Company and policy sorted and paid. Now you must notify the old insurance company or they will automatically renew, so quick call this morning. And, was told to post back insurance disc and certificate to prove to them that I am not renewing! WTF!!!!

biko

It's common when you cancel policy that they want disc and cert back. Not sure how common it is when your policy expires. I think 123 does this IIRC

Not sure how this is breaking the law...

bog master

biko wrote: »

It's common when you cancel policy that they want disc and cert back. Not sure how common it is when your policy expires. I think 123 does this IIRC

Not sure how this is breaking the law...[/QUOT

Not displaying a insurance disc. And don't even have the Certificate to prove I am insured. By all means they can have it back when it is expired.

wonski

I am pretty sure it is the disc and certificate issued on renewal, not the old one that is about to expire

They always send them out before the renewal date.

VandC

bog master wrote:

Insure expires in 4 days. Haggled with current insurer with no joy, so new Company and policy sorted and paid. Now you must notify the old insurance company or they will automatically renew, so quick call this morning. And, was told to post back insurance disc and certificate to prove to them that I am not renewing! WTF!!!!

....

Not displaying a tax disc. And don't even have the Certificate to prove I am insured. By all means they can have it back when it is expired.

Huh? I don't get you. How does asking for the insurance cert and accompanying disc turn in to not displaying a tax disc? Insurance company asked for their docs back. Like biko said not sure about legalities but surely when your insurance is expired you can send them back? By your explanation (or at least my understanding of it) they didn't ask for your tax disc (and nor should they) they just asked for the insurance disc and the cert that it would have been attached to to be returned.

If you have lost that insurance cert well then you need to talk to them and figure that bit out but from your post I don't understand it to be that they are asking for anything to do with your motor tax.

VandC

wonski wrote:

I am pretty sure it is the disc and certificate issued on renewal, not the old one that is about to expire

wonski wrote:

They always send them out before the renewal date.

+1

Never thought of that one too. Maybe it's the new docs they just issued that they want back.

Advbrd

I don't recall ever having an insurance disc and cert issued to me unless I renewed the policy. No company has ever auto renewed my policy. They always check whether there have been any changes since last renewal.

VandC

Advbrd wrote:

I don't recall ever having an insurance disc and cert issued to me unless I renewed the policy. No company has ever auto renewed my policy. They always check whether there have been any changes since last renewal.

Hasn't happened me personally but did happen a friend of mine whose insurance just auto renewed and he only found out that was part of t and c's when the docs arrived (just to note, I'm not saying insurance co were being sneaky I would say he just hadn't made himself aware of that fact). But I would say he was paid up to date and to be fair even at that point he could still cancel the auto renewal.

bog master

VandC wrote: »

Huh? I don't get you. How does asking for the insurance cert and accompanying disc turn in to not displaying a tax disc? Insurance company asked for their docs back. Like biko said not sure about legalities but surely when your insurance is expired you can send them back? By your explanation (or at least my understanding of it) they didn't ask for your tax disc (and nor should they) they just asked for the insurance disc and the cert that it would have been attached to to be returned.

If you have lost that insurance cert well then you need to talk to them and figure that bit out but from your post I don't understand it to be that they are asking for anything to do with your motor tax.

I went through it with them three times. They want the current disc and certificate which expires on 16/12/16 returned immediately to prove to them that I am not renewing the policy with them. And since I have paid in full for the insurance which includes the disc and insurance why should I send it back while it is still valid.

bog master

VandC wrote: »

Huh? I don't get you. How does asking for the insurance cert and accompanying disc turn in to not displaying a tax disc? Insurance company asked for their docs back. Like biko said not sure about legalities but surely when your insurance is expired you can send them back? By your explanation (or at least my understanding of it) they didn't ask for your tax disc (and nor should they) they just asked for the insurance disc and the cert that it would have been attached to to be returned.

If you have lost that insurance cert well then you need to talk to them and figure that bit out but from your post I don't understand it to be that they are asking for anything to do with your motor tax.

Sorry for typing -should be insurance disc-apologies

VandC

I understand a bit more now. The tax disc thing was throwing me off.

I would probably have the same reaction as yourself but even without the disc you would still be insured. While I know that this doesn't make it right to ask for it back, AFAIK it is not a penalty point offence if you don't have your disc displayed and my understanding would be that if you were stopped and had to produce docs to show that you are insured then the insurance company would be obliged to issue that proof to you. I am by no means an expert on this so maybe someone better knowledgeable can confirm/correct me.

If you do decide to return them before the 16th, I would take a copy of them just to have in the car/on your person to help avoid grief at a checkpoint and any delays with Xmas post should you need to ask insurance co to issue something to you for the guards.

bog master

VandC wrote: »

I understand a bit more now. The tax disc thing was throwing me off.

I would probably have the same reaction as yourself but even without the disc you would still be insured. While I know that this doesn't make it right to ask for it back, AFAIK it is not a penalty point offence if you don't have your disc displayed and my understanding would be that if you were stopped and had to produce docs to show that you are insured then the insurance company would be obliged to issue that proof to you. I am by no means an expert on this so maybe someone better knowledgeable can confirm/correct me.

If you do decide to return them before the 16th, I would take a copy of them just to have in the car/on your person to help avoid grief at a checkpoint and any delays with Xmas post should you need to ask insurance co to issue something to you for the guards.

Good advice, but chalk up another one for our unique motor insurance business here in Ireland. I of course will post them back but the post is very slow during the holiday season *****

VandC

bog master wrote:

Good advice, but chalk up another one for our unique motor insurance business here in Ireland. I of course will post them back but the post is very slow during the holiday season *****

I know I might sound like I'm on their side, but I'm not! Can't stand them

Maybe wait and see if someone who knows better than me can give better/more accurate knowledge.

Sleeper12

Have they posted out new disc & you haven't gotten it yet?
Another thing to look out for is how slow the post is right now. Some of out post is taking a full week to be delivered in Ireland since black Friday.

bog master

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Have they posted out new disc & you haven't gotten it yet?
Another thing to look out for is how slow the post is right now. Some of out post is taking a full week to be delivered in Ireland since black Friday.

No disc and cert as of yesterday.

NUTLEY BOY

See section 70, RTA 1961 about return of the certificate ;

70.—(1) Where the period of cover under an approved policy of insurance is terminated or suspended by any means before its expiration by effluxion of time, the insured shall, within seven days after the termination or suspension, deliver to the vehicle insurer by whom the policy was issued the latest certificate of insurance in respect of the policy.

wonski

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

See section 70, RTA 1961 about return of the certificate ;

70.—(1) Where the period of cover under an approved policy of insurance is terminated or suspended by any means before its expiration by effluxion of time, the insured shall, within seven days after the termination or suspension, deliver to the vehicle insurer by whom the policy was issued the latest certificate of insurance in respect of the policy.

See op, he doesn't cancel, he just doesn't want them to renew.

dev100

bog master wrote:

I went through it with them three times. They want the current disc and certificate which expires on 16/12/16 returned immediately to prove to them that I am not renewing the policy with them. And since I have paid in full for the insurance which includes the disc and insurance why should I send it back while it is still valid.[/quote

They want their current cert and disc back and not the new one after the 16th? Ignore them if it's your current insurance . Your insured up to a certain time . If they want the paper work back after that date tell them to send a self addressed return envelope and a cheque for 50 euros for a paperwork fee

Liam McPoyle

bog master wrote: »

Insure expires in 4 days. Haggled with current insurer with no joy, so new Company and policy sorted and paid. Now you must notify the old insurance company or they will automatically renew, so quick call this morning. And, was told to post back insurance disc and certificate to prove to them that I am not renewing! WTF!!!!

Just tell them you aren't renewing the policy and cancel the direct debit with them.

The only reason I can think they have asked you to send back the current disc is that there was a miscommunication.

Did you by any chance tell them you wanted to cancel the policy as opposed to lapsing it?

When I was in sales, it happened a few times that people would not be renewing and would say they wanted to cancel their insurance. Canceling and lapsing are two different things so that can be the only reason they would as for the old disc back, they think you want to cancel it in which case you would be obliged to return all documents.

NUTLEY BOY

wonski wrote: »

See op, he doesn't cancel, he just doesn't want them to renew.

And that is exactly the point.

The OP has paid his full contractual consideration up to 16.12.2016 so I see no proper reason for him to surrender the disc and certificate until that date passes. Strictly speaking, I see no basis for surrendering them after the expiry date either.

Suppose he returned the documents and was unlucky enough to have an accident on 15.12.2016. They would probably try and say that the policy was cancelled !

+1 the observation about non display and or non possession of the legally required insurance documents on a public road e.g. a Garda checkpoint. Imagine trying to explain that one at the roadside :rolleyes:

My point about S.70 RTA 1961 was that because the policy is lapsing by effluxion there seems to be no obligation to return the documents - even after expiry.

bog master

dev100 wrote: »

bog master wrote:

I went through it with them three times. They want the current disc and certificate which expires on 16/12/16 returned immediately to prove to them that I am not renewing the policy with them. And since I have paid in full for the insurance which includes the disc and insurance why should I send it back while it is still valid.[/quote

They want their current cert and disc back and not the new one after the 16th? Ignore them if it's your current insurance . Your insured up to a certain time . If they want the paper work back after that date tell them to send a self addressed return envelope and a cheque for 50 euros for a paperwork fee [/quote

Must admit I like this idea!!!!!

VandC

Rod Munch wrote:

Did you by any chance tell them you wanted to cancel the policy as opposed to lapsing it?

Rod Munch wrote:

When I was in sales, it happened a few times that people would not be renewing and would say they wanted to cancel their insurance. Canceling and lapsing are two different things so that can be the only reason they would as for the old disc back, they think you want to cancel it in which case you would be obliged to return all documents.

Best check that op! We know that you just don't want to renew but you want to be clear with your insurance company that you are keeping your current policy active and in place right up until the expiration date/time on the 16th. You wouldn't want them to be using it as an excuse to claim you didn't have cover in the event of the worse, all over a misunderstanding/miscommunication.

Del2005

Advbrd wrote: »

I don't recall ever having an insurance disc and cert issued to me unless I renewed the policy. No company has ever auto renewed my policy. They always check whether there have been any changes since last renewal.

I got a notice from my bike insurer that they would be bringing in auto renewal at my next policy unless I opted out when I was renewing, must be the latest scam that they are bringing in to gouge us even more.


I agree and think that there's been a miscommunication between the OP and the drone on the other end of the line about the current policy and the auto renewal. Call back again tomorrow and see what they say when you say that you don't want to auto renew. If they still insist on the current disc and cert I'd ask for it to be escalated to a manager/claims adjuster, hopefully it'll require a call back and that will get you closer to the 16th;)