Will Kilcock become more attractive to live in with the rail fare cuts?

highdef

With the recent addition of Supervalu and the associated improvements in the area of the square plus the current upgrade in footpaths together with the upcoming addition of the new canal cycleway from Kilcock to Leixlip, Kilcock is finally becoming a more attractive area to live and to visit.
It really hasn't offered all that much to tourists and dwellers thus far and it's not the most developed of small towns despite the huge potential because of it's location, history and amenities.

The KCC development plans for Kilcock (http://kildare.ie/CountyCouncil/Planning/DevelopmentPlans/LocalAreaPlans/KilcockLocalAreaPlan2015-2021/Draft%20Kilcock%20LAP%202015-2021red(1).pdf) look fantastic (it's a long but excellent read) and if it came to pass, Kilcock could become a very attractive place for tourists and for people to live.

But back to the thread title - Currently an adult single trip from Connolly station to Kilcock costs €8.10. When Kilcock is
included in the short hop zone fare scheme (From June 1st 2017) the fare will cost just €4.60 cash or €3.56 Leap. This is a saving
of €3.50 for a single trip paid for with cash or savings of €4.54 per single trip if paid for by Leap.

These are MASSIVE savings compared to the current prices. I'm sure weekly/monthly/yearly tickets will also have huge reductions in cost. I reckon this will have big knock on effects in the area. Existing residents in the local area who commute to Dublin will be more likely to use the train as it will be very much affordable, compared to ever increasing travel times and associated fuel costs on the M4 due to over capacity.
This would also attract house builders to the area as cheap transport links to Dublin are a major benefit. I can envisage house prices increasing too.
And if KCC implement some or all of their development plan, then the area could become attractive to tourists. Sallins is a very popular location for barges and the associated income it brings to the area. Kilcock could easily be the same or better however Kilcock has even more potential due to it's long history, medievel type layout, larger size and better transport links.

So to recap, Will Kilcock become more attractive to live in with the rail fare cuts?

L1011

It'd need some more sodding trains, first.

highdef

L1011 wrote: »

It'd need some more sodding trains, first.

Very true. I'm wondering that as it will be in the short hop zone, will more frequent trains come along as part of this?

L1011

highdef wrote: »

Very true. I'm wondering that as it will be in the short hop zone, will more frequent trains come along as part of this?

Not for the foreseeable. Would need a turnback at Kilcock or else they'd be blocking the line entirely for longer distance services. There also isn't enough commuter stock to allow it - extending some Maynooth trains would prolong their runtime enough as to need more trains to maintain existing services.

Not sure if any existing trains pass through non-stop without checking the timetable. These would be the only likely adds if so

me_right_one

If you're from Kilcock, grand. Live there. If you're not, then dont be expecting it to change for you. The last thing North Kildare / South Meath needs is more commuters who just sleep there.

When I was shopping for my first property in 2005 Kilcock was more expensive than Clane to buy in, I could never quite fathom why tbh. Was as expensive as Naas iirc.
"it's not the most developed of small towns" does sum it up really well.

Advbrd

me_right_one wrote: »

If you're from Kilcock, grand. Live there. If you're not, then dont be expecting it to change for you. The last thing North Kildare / South Meath needs is more commuters who just sleep there.

I am not from North Kildare but I sleep here. I also eat here, socialize here, shop here, raise my kids here, support the local sports and other clubs here, generally do the same as "the locals" and also "the blowins".

me_right_one

Advbrd wrote: »

I am not from North Kildare but I sleep here. I also eat here, socialize here, shop here, raise my kids here, support the local sports and other clubs here, generally do the same as "the locals" and also "the blowins".

But one thing you dont do is love the place the way a local does. You have no history with the place. You come in with a different attitude, you think its fine to muscle your culture and way of thinking into a place where it is not welcome. And suddenly, the land which people died for, the stream which powered the mill for centuries, the hill where people revered for thousands of years etc. becomes another cancerous housing estate which only propagates the rat-race even further.

I dont mean that just about you, its generally how locals see dubs who make "commuter towns" out of their homeplaces.

Advbrd

me_right_one wrote: »

But one thing you dont do is love the place the way a local does. You have no history with the place. You come in with a different attitude, you think its fine to muscle your culture and way of thinking into a place where it is not welcome. And suddenly, the land which people died for, the stream which powered the mill for centuries, the hill where people revered for thousands of years etc. becomes another cancerous housing estate which only propagates the rat-race even further.

I dont mean that just about you, its generally how locals see dubs who make "commuter towns" out of their homeplaces.

Oh dear!

L1011

me_right_one wrote: »

But one thing you dont do is love the place the way a local does. You have no history with the place. You come in with a different attitude, you think its fine to muscle your culture and way of thinking into a place where it is not welcome. And suddenly, the land which people died for, the stream which powered the mill for centuries, the hill where people revered for thousands of years etc. becomes another cancerous housing estate which only propagates the rat-race even further.

I dont mean that just about you, its generally how locals see dubs who make "commuter towns" out of their homeplaces.

The 'culture' of Dublin and Kilcock are not different enough to even start to justify the hyperbole here.

me_right_one

L1011 wrote: »

The 'culture' of Dublin and Kilcock are not different enough to even start to justify the hyperbole here.

The culture of city and country are polar opposites. Advbirds response sums it up there - she made little of my post instead of countering it.

I'm not trying to start an argument here, I'm just saying. If you think Kilcock should change to suit YOU, then dont move there.

lawred2

me_right_one wrote: »

But one thing you dont do is love the place the way a local does. You have no history with the place. You come in with a different attitude, you think its fine to muscle your culture and way of thinking into a place where it is not welcome. And suddenly, the land which people died for, the stream which powered the mill for centuries, the hill where people revered for thousands of years etc. becomes another cancerous housing estate which only propagates the rat-race even further.

I dont mean that just about you, its generally how locals see dubs who make "commuter towns" out of their homeplaces.

that you Bull?

Advbrd

me_right_one wrote: »

The culture of city and country are polar opposites. Advbirds response sums it up there - she made little of my post instead of countering it.

I'm not trying to start an argument here, I'm just saying. If you think Kilcock should change to suit YOU, then dont move there.

He, by the way and from the country.
So we should all go back to wearing moleskin trousers and grandfather shirts (not actually a bad look if you can get away with it) and doff our tweed caps to the local priest, doctor and teacher? Personally, I do not think so.
I know lots of "locals" from my home town and other places I have lived who have no love for the locality. Everyone has a different attitude. Some may want things to remain the same, not everyone does. Because you are born in a particular place should not give you any greater say in how a place develops. Who sold "the land that people died for"? Would it be a local? Personally I don't like housing estates. I live in the country which I and my kids love. I bought the house from a "local" who also loved living there. New blood in an area is a good thing. Where I live, the local shops, hotel, pubs, schools etc would be decimated without the influx of people and their attitudes and I suspect the same could be said about Kilcock. Roll on further change.

L1011

me_right_one wrote: »

The culture of city and country are polar opposites. Advbirds response sums it up there - she made little of my post instead of countering it.

I'm not trying to start an argument here, I'm just saying. If you think Kilcock should change to suit YOU, then dont move there.

Kilcock is not, and never was "the country". Run down post-industrial outer suburb.

Dolbert

me_right_one wrote: »

But one thing you dont do is love the place the way a local does. You have no history with the place. You come in with a different attitude, you think its fine to muscle your culture and way of thinking into a place where it is not welcome. And suddenly, the land which people died for, the stream which powered the mill for centuries, the hill where people revered for thousands of years etc. becomes another cancerous housing estate which only propagates the rat-race even further.

I dont mean that just about you, its generally how locals see dubs who make "commuter towns" out of their homeplaces.

highdef

L1011 wrote: »

Kilcock is not, and never was "the country". Run down post-industrial outer suburb.

Kilcock has a LONG history going back many hundreds of years and was most definitely in the countryside. Due to it's not so distant location with regards to Dublin, it has inevitably become an outer suburb....with Intercity rail prices!

As for my query about whether rail services will become more frequent, I guess it will only become an option should patronage increase as a result of large reduction in fares. If the demand is there for extra services, I would imagine the demand could be met.
I do realise that it is single line track here but when the new road bridge was installed in the 90's, provision was made for double tracking so a passing loop could be installed without massive costs. As well as enabling turn back facilities, it would provide an additional location where any non-stop trains can pass in either direction.
This may take a few years to happen (or never!) but with current plans to build a lot more housing in the area, especially to the west of the town, I can foresee the train becoming a popular mode of transport, certainly more so than it is currently.

Finally, I don't live in Kilcock. I live several KM away in a rural area. I am a blow-in from Dublin but have embraced the local ways wholeheartedly. I don't use the train to/from Kilcock more than once/twice a year. So all my comments in my OP are merely thoughts and observations......what happens in Kilcock doesn't have very much bearing on my day to day life. I actually live closer to Enfield!

listermint

me_right_one wrote: »

But one thing you dont do is love the place the way a local does. You have no history with the place. You come in with a different attitude, you think its fine to muscle your culture and way of thinking into a place where it is not welcome. And suddenly, the land which people died for, the stream which powered the mill for centuries, the hill where people revered for thousands of years etc. becomes another cancerous housing estate which only propagates the rat-race even further.

I dont mean that just about you, its generally how locals see dubs who make "commuter towns" out of their homeplaces.

Absolute headcase alert....

Advbrd

highdef wrote: »

Kilcock has a LONG history going back many hundreds of years and was most definitely in the countryside. Due to it's not so distant location with regards to Dublin, it has inevitably become an outer suburb....with Intercity rail prices!

As for my query about whether rail services will become more frequent, I guess it will only become an option should patronage increase as a result of large reduction in fares. If the demand is there for extra services, I would imagine the demand could be met.
I do realise that it is single line track here but when the new road bridge was installed in the 90's, provision was made for double tracking so a passing loop could be installed without massive costs. As well as enabling turn back facilities, it would provide an additional location where any non-stop trains can pass in either direction.
This may take a few years to happen (or never!) but with current plans to build a lot more housing in the area, especially to the west of the town, I can foresee the train becoming a popular mode of transport, certainly more so than it is currently.

Finally, I don't live in Kilcock. I live several KM away in a rural area. I am a blow-in from Dublin but have embraced the local ways wholeheartedly. I don't use the train to/from Kilcock more than once/twice a year. So all my comments in my OP are merely thoughts and observations......what happens in Kilcock doesn't have very much bearing on my day to day life. I actually live closer to Enfield!

Good on you! So have I apart from the naked field dancing in winter. That's a bit much to take to especially when the Cappagh lads join in.

L1011

highdef wrote: »

I do realise that it is single line track here but when the new road bridge was installed in the 90's, provision was made for double tracking so a passing loop could be installed without massive costs. As well as enabling turn back facilities, it would provide an additional location where any non-stop trains can pass in either direction.

The line as-built was double track the bulk of the way to Sligo (all the way to Longford and again in patches) - it was only singled in the 30s or so - so there's more than just modern structures built for it. It just reduces the costs from astronomical to high, though.

I consider anywhere inside the Pale as not being properly country - think Kilcock was. The Pale might be too new a concept for the poster in question though!

ted1

People getting the train in a regular basis have annual tax savers, what's the savings in this compared to old price

highdef

ted1 wrote: »

People getting the train in a regular basis have annual tax savers, what's the savings in this compared to old price

I'm unsure as I haven't see any figures bar single cash and LEAP fares but with those fares being near half of the existing ones, then I'm sure it would reasonable to assume that weekly/monthly/yearly tickets will follow a similar vein.

Advbrd - "Naked field dancing in winter"! Hmmm, not something I've heard of nor something I'd be too interested in myself but each to their own. Out of interest, what changes when the Cappagh lads join in??? :eek:

Advbrd

highdef wrote: »

I'm unsure as I haven't see any figures bar single cash and LEAP fares but with those fares being near half of the existing ones, then I'm sure it would reasonable to assume that weekly/monthly/yearly tickets will follow a similar vein.

Advbrd - "Naked field dancing in winter"! Hmmm, not something I've heard of nor something I'd be too interested in myself but each to their own. Out of interest, what changes when the Cappagh lads join in??? :eek:

You don't want to know. My counsellor told me to try and move on. The memories, the memories...

sadie06

me_right_one wrote: »

becomes another cancerous housing estate which only propagates the rat-race even further.

As a matter of interest, what's your solution to the current housing crisis which will see hundreds of families in hotel rooms or worse this Christmas?

Finding our way out of this mess is going to be very hard, but if every stretch of land in commuter belt towns is off limits because of the hundreds of years of history associated with it, there will be no moving forward.

You list the historical utilisation of that very land to cater for the various needs of the population. Guess what? Those needs changed....the biggest need we are currently facing is being able to provide housing for all.

As a Dub living in Sallins, I haven't encountered your attitude here at all. All of us blow ins contribute to the local economy, the vibrancy of clubs and activities, the fundraising to improve amenities etc. Nowhere is perfect...that's a fact, but stagnation for any town/village can't be a good thing.

lordgoat

me_right_one wrote: »

But one thing you dont do is love the place the way a local does. You have no history with the place. You come in with a different attitude, you think its fine to muscle your culture and way of thinking into a place where it is not welcome. And suddenly, the land which people died for, the stream which powered the mill for centuries, the hill where people revered for thousands of years etc. becomes another cancerous housing estate which only propagates the rat-race even further.

I dont mean that just about you, its generally how locals see dubs who make "commuter towns" out of their homeplaces.

LOL #kilcockexit #nocultureforoldmen

What are you on about? The land which people died for?

sadie06 wrote: »

As a matter of interest, what's your solution to the current housing crisis which will see hundreds of families in hotel rooms or worse this Christmas?

Finding our way out of this mess is going to be very hard, but if every stretch of land in commuter belt towns is off limits because of the hundreds of years of history associated with it, there will be no moving forward.

You list the historical utilisation of that very land to cater for the various needs of the population. Guess what? Those needs changed....the biggest need we are currently facing is being able to provide housing for all.

As a Dub living in Sallins, I haven't encountered your attitude here at all. All of us blow ins contribute to the local economy, the vibrancy of clubs and activities, the fundraising to improve amenities etc. Nowhere is perfect...that's a fact, but stagnation for any town/village can't be a good thing.

Great points.
Maynooth for 15 years and the only whinging you get there is about how messy students are.

n97 mini

sadie06 wrote: »

As a matter of interest, what's your solution to the current housing crisis

Urban sprawl is not the solution when there is no high-rise in the city centre. The shortage is in Dublin, not Kilcock. I know several people, working, no kids under the age of 30 living in a 3 bed semi places like Kilcock as they've been priced out. They'd happily live in a 1 or 2 bed apt in the city centre (and so they should, you're only young once).

As regards the OP, I can't see the train having any effect on prices. If it was a frequent service like DART or Luas it would be different, but you're talking a very limited service that's no use for socialising etc.

liam7831

With the rail fare cuts there is going to be a problem with parking in the town, the little bit of parking at the train station is already full. People are currently parking in the court house across the road but that does not hold much and with it due for renovation next year that parking will disappear.

lordgoat

n97 mini wrote: »

Urban sprawl is not the solution when there is no high-rise in the city centre. The shortage is in Dublin, not Kilcock. I know several people, working, no kids under the age of 30 living in a 3 bed semi places like Kilcock as they've been priced out. They'd happily live in a 1 or 2 bed apt in the city centre (and so they should, you're only young once).

As regards the OP, I can't see the train having any effect on prices. If it was a frequent service like DART or Luas it would be different, but you're talking a very limited service that's no use for socialising etc.

No one suggested Urban Sprawl. The entire population of the country is increasing and towns right across the country need to be developed in a matter that cares for the area. Urban planning is a disaster in Kildare where towns are growing faster than elsewhere in the country. The knock on effect of this is why you see what you have described here.

Also the population of Kilcock is also increasing so services and housing prob will increase in the next few years.

n97 mini

lordgoat wrote: »

No one suggested Urban Sprawl. The entire population of the country is increasing and towns right across the country need to be developed in a matter that cares for the area. Urban planning is a disaster in Kildare where towns are growing faster than elsewhere in the country. The knock on effect of this is why you see what you have described here.

Also the population of Kilcock is also increasing so services and housing prob will increase in the next few years.

The definition of urban sprawl: The housing needs of a city are spreading into rural land. Development on green field sites in Kildare is being driven by the needs of Dublin. There are probably less people working in Kilcock itself than there were 20 years ago.

Even the OP's question is premised on the fact that cheaper rail fares will be more attractive for getting to.... Dublin.

kidneyfan

me_right_one wrote: »

But one thing you dont do is love the place the way a local does. You have no history with the place. You come in with a different attitude, you think its fine to muscle your culture and way of thinking into a place where it is not welcome. And suddenly, the land which people died for, the stream which powered the mill for centuries, the hill where people revered for thousands of years etc. becomes another cancerous housing estate which only propagates the rat-race even further.

I dont mean that just about you, its generally how locals see dubs who make "commuter towns" out of their homeplaces.

Don't be a dope. The councillor who was rezoning crazy in the Kilcock area went to St Joseph's. The developer who built the ridiculous estate on the way to Summerhill is from Kilcock, the men who closed the chewing gum factory still live in Kilcock.

I am not saying that people should be allowed to fly Dublin flags but Kilcock's problems are created by Kilcock people.

kidneyfan

lordgoat wrote: »

LOL #kilcockexit #nocultureforoldmen

What are you on about? The land which people died for?

1798 the British burned Kilcock.

kidneyfan

L1011 wrote: »

I consider anywhere inside the Pale as not being properly country - think Kilcock was. The Pale might be too new a concept for the poster in question though!

The Pale ditch ran through what's now Kilcock

lordgoat

n97 mini wrote: »

The definition of urban sprawl: The housing needs of a city are spreading into rural land. Development on green field sites in Kildare is being driven by the needs of Dublin. There are probably less people working in Kilcock itself than there were 20 years ago.

Even the OP's question is premised on the fact that cheaper rail fares will be more attractive for getting to.... Dublin.

And what is it called when the housing needs of the town aren't met due to the towns expanding population? See Leixlip, Cellbridge and Maynooth when Intel moved to Leixlip. Not saying this is what's happening in Kilcock but to just whinge about one issue when it is not the only thing taking place is inaccurate.

Kilcocks population is expanding. More people have grown up there, I'm guessing alot of them might want to continue to live there. Houses are needed. Amenities are needed.

Also are you calling it urban sprawl that people who can't afford to live in Maynooth/Cellbridge/Naas have to settle for Kilcock? Because if you're talking about Dublin - i'm done.

kidneyfan wrote: »

1798 the British burned Kilcock.

Just Kilcock was it? Is it them back now snapping up all the houses?
Also 1798 - move on pal, way too much living in the past. Know your history, but don't be ruled by it.

highdef

kidneyfan wrote: »

The Pale ditch ran through what's now Kilcock

Off-topic but do you know it's route or have a map? The only bit of it I know in existence is in and around Clongowes College

BuffyBot

Folks, remember you can differ in opinions..but it does not give you permission to name call. If you can't keep it civil, don't post.

liam7831

Anyway......back on topic time will tell. I'm delighted personally about the rail fare cuts as I intend renting my house out in a few years and it make the area more popular for commuters. I can see Super Valu & Clearys Hardware having to put up a barrier or something to stop people parking in their car parks and going to work as even at the moment their is no spare parking.

n97 mini

lordgoat wrote: »

And what is it called when the housing needs of the town aren't met due to the towns expanding population? See Leixlip, Cellbridge and Maynooth when Intel moved to Leixlip. Not saying this is what's happening in Kilcock but to just whinge about one issue when it is not the only thing taking place is inaccurate.

Kilcocks population is expanding. More people have grown up there, I'm guessing alot of them might want to continue to live there. Houses are needed. Amenities are needed.

Also are you calling it urban sprawl that people who can't afford to live in Maynooth/Cellbridge/Naas have to settle for Kilcock? Because if you're talking about Dublin - i'm done.

To express a (well founded) opinion is to whinge?

Amenities are needed across North Kildare, but let's park that.

The Liffey Champion reports that KCC in their wisdom have plans for over 3,000 new houses (the majority of which will be more 3-bed semis) in Leixlip. 2,000 of them are on the other side of Cope Bridge in Confey. Do you think all these houses will be bought by locals who want to stay local? Or do you think it's possible a significant proportion will be bought by people who have no connection to the area and are (like a lot of others) working in Dublin?

Leixlip, Kilcock and places even beyond Longford are dormitory towns. People working in Dublin but sleeping in another county.

BTW, Celbridge has one L, not two.

grind gremlin

An application has been submitted to build 450 houses with an entrance near kilcock GAA. It's going to be a nightmare getting out of Royal Meadows estate if this gets the go ahead......

liam7831

grind gremlin wrote: »

An application has been submitted to build 450 houses with an entrance near kilcock GAA. It's going to be a nightmare getting out of Royal Meadows estate if this gets the go ahead......

Wow that's a lot of houses for the size of the town, any link ?

grind gremlin

liam7831 wrote: »

Wow that's a lot of houses for the size of the town, any link ?

161345 is the planning application number.
Taken from it:
The development will consist of 450 no. residential units comprising of 54 no. 'Type A' 4 bed house of 169.1m2 (16 detached and 38 semi-detached); 83 no. 'Type B1' optional 2 or 2.5 storey, 3 or 4 bed houses of 111.7 or 147.4m2 (5 detached, 70 semi-detached and 8 end of terrace); 54 no. 'Type B3' optional 2 or 2.5 storey, 3 or 4 bed houses of 110.8m or 147.4m2 m (2 detached, 44 semi-detached and 8 end of terrace); 49 no. 'Type C' 2 storey, 3 bed semi-detached houses of 107.1m2; 43 'Type C1' 2 storey 3 bed semi-detached houses of 111.9m2; 14 no. 'Type D' 2 storey, 3 bed mid-terrace houses of 101.4m2; 14 no. 'Type E' 2 storey, 2 bed mid-terrace houses of 89.2m2; 24 no. 'Type F' 2 storey, 3 bed houses of 102.6m2 (2 semi-detached, 22 end of terrace); 11 no. 'Type G' 2 storey, 3 bed mid-terrace houses of 93.1m2; 11 no. 'Type H' 2 storey, 2 bed mid-terrace houses of 80.4m2; 1 no. two storey crèche with floor area of 569m2; a 230m long boulevard/link road along the northern boundary of GAA lands linking to Penwell Lodge that connects to Molly Ware St; and ancillary site development work.

me_right_one

What a shame, what a waste of land. And there are at least that many empty houses in Trim, Longwood, Enfield and Dunshaughlin. All bigger towns with better amenities and infrastructure. Its like Bertie never left the dail.

YellowLead

With the rail commute becoming cheaper, Kilcock could become more attractive for students to live in attending NUI Maynooth. Maynooth cannot keep up the demand for student accommodation, and if Kilcock could become more accessible for students it would help ease the pressure. They could rent much more cheaply there. Not sure how many are living there at the moment.

lucernarian

YellowLead wrote: »

With the rail commute becoming cheaper, Kilcock could become more attractive for students to live in attending NUI Maynooth. Maynooth cannot keep up the demand for student accommodation, and if Kilcock could become more accessible for students it would help ease the pressure. They could rent much more cheaply there. Not sure how many are living there at the moment.

The public transport between the two is quite irregular and delays to the service are common as two tracks become one just after Maynooth.

Celbridge would have better transport if the "regularity" of the 67 was taken into account.

triple nipple

kidneyfan wrote:

1798 the Dubs burned Kilcock.

Lol