Leaving teaching union

liamolaighin

Can anyone advise me as to whether it is possible to leave the Asti before the next ballot? Not looking to join another union. Simply wish to cease being an Asti member. Would I be bound by results of industrial action as the action has begun?

spurious

Moved to a more appropriate forum.

doc_17

liamolaighin wrote: »

Can anyone advise me as to whether it is possible to leave the Asti before the next ballot? Not looking to join another union. Simply wish to cease being an Asti member. Would I be bound by results of industrial action as the action has begun?

Bound by results of Indistrial Action? As in would you have to strike if ASTI called one? No.

05eaftqbrs9jlh

I can only imagine how many ASTI members have done the same. There has really been a huge failure to secure the terms they demanded. Where is their voice for their members? What are they for?

I'm a primary school teacher but I'm not and never have been a member of the INTO because they failed to protect my pay when I was in college and they haven't satisfactorily represented any of my colleagues since I started working. I'll take the chance of never needing them. I likely won't. I've asked a huge number of teachers and they never used their membership for anything but receipt of the stupid magazine, which I loan from friends when, if ever, there is anything of value in it. I refuse to give money to supporting an agency which doesn't benefit me.

doc_17

They never used their membership to be part of a larger negotiating block that improved their pay? Really?

Teachers that aren't members of the Union and whinge about what the Union does or doesn't do for them deserve to exist in a world with no teacher unions. See how that'd work.

km79

liamolaighin wrote: »

Can anyone advise me as to whether it is possible to leave the Asti before the next ballot? Not looking to join another union. Simply wish to cease being an Asti member. Would I be bound by results of industrial action as the action has begun?

You can leave BUT any teacher who leaves during an industrial dispute will not be permitted to rejoin i believe

TheDriver

Turn up to branch meetings, get involved. Being outside the union won't get you anything better

mirrorwall14

doc_17 wrote: »

They never used their membership to be part of a larger negotiating block that improved their pay? Really?

Teachers that aren't members of the Union and whinge about what the Union does or doesn't do for them deserve to exist in a world with no teacher unions. See how that'd work.

Can you imagine how badly the teachers would have been shafted if we hadn't had anyone at the negotiating table? Christ it doesnt bear thinking about

2011abc

At least wait till the end of January .I left before but they seem(ed) to be finally fighting and Im back .Every vote counts in the next one .It could be the last one although a part of me still fears that was the notorious LRA vote a few years ago .All this assumes you are opposed to pay apartheid and arent simply swayed by the governments crumbs .And yes Ive had LPT friends say "But I NEED this 793/1000 etc euro !" Believe me you need to sign off on this deal like a hole in the head!

doc_17

TheDriver wrote: »

Turn up to branch meetings, get involved. Being outside the union won't get you anything better

A bit like the water charges, some people want everything but they want everyone else to pick up the tab.

feardeas

I know from speaking to a good number of colleagues that the op will not be alone in investigating this if the deal is rejected and there is further action that results in continued salary deduction.

That wouldn't be my only reason. I am tired of the seemingly never ending disputes. I am actually worried about my junior english class who have not been in the assessment process thus far. I am a little sick of being shouted down when you raise a point contrary to the view of we fight them on the beaches etc.

I would like to be in a school where there might be the possibility of a return of some posts of responsibility.

There are many reasons and yet I feel very much that one should be unionised. However I am conflicted because I can not say that I think this is the right strategy so frankly I'm at a loss.

I'm going to await the information before ballot although I will vote in favour of acceptance. It will be interesting to see what information is put out particularly the strategy they believe in employing in the event that they get their wish and it is rejected.

If that is continued striking then I, and I believe a lot of other people, have a lot of thinking to do.

evolving_doors

CINCLANTFLT wrote: »

So questioning unions results in you being told to "jog on" or not to post here? Please look up the definition of bigot...

please read the charter before 'contributing' to a thread.
Refrain from posting until doing so.
Mod.
P.s. Stay on topic folks.
Ta

Mardy Bum

The only union I would consider leaving would be a union where the leadership is in the government's pocket. ASTI have some very poor communication issues which need to be resolved but at least the membership wants to see teachers being paid the same. Some other unions' membership don't care about this.

MrJones1973

People have a right to leave or join a union if they want. However if we all did that they would ride us into the ground like the UK.
However I think taking a break on principle from the union is not a bad idea.
But without ASTI this would be an even worse job.
Take a break and come back a year or two. Only the very selfish or insane think the Asti doesn't prevent worse **** from occurring

MrJones1973

feardeas wrote: »

I know from speaking to a good number of colleagues that the op will not be alone in investigating this if the deal is rejected and there is further action that results in continued salary deduction.

That wouldn't be my only reason. I am tired of the seemingly never ending disputes. I am actually worried about my junior english class who have not been in the assessment process thus far. I am a little sick of being shouted down when you raise a point contrary to the view of we fight them on the beaches etc.

I would like to be in a school where there might be the possibility of a return of some posts of responsibility.

There are many reasons and yet I feel very much that one should be unionised. However I am conflicted because I can not say that I think this is the right strategy so frankly I'm at a loss.

I'm going to await the information before ballot although I will vote in favour of acceptance. It will be interesting to see what information is put out particularly the strategy they believe in employing in the event that they get their wish and it is rejected.

If that is continued striking then I, and I believe a lot of other people, have a lot of thinking to do.

Don't buy the bull from Bruton. There will be no consequences for students if we vote no again . For JC English. They can easily mark one student out of 100 and another out of 90.
As for wanting promotion- do you think loads of extra posts on way under LR ? Have you read that ? Where ? No definite promise and what they wrote is that the whole post structure to be reviewed.
Personally I think this ballot will pass but people should at least vote for the right reasons and not fantasy or false threats

feardeas

Mrwhite1970 wrote:

Don't buy the bull from Bruton. There will be no consequences for students if we vote no again . For JC English. They can easily mark one student out of 100 and another out of 90. As for wanting promotion- do you think loads of extra posts on way under LR ? Have you read that ? Where ? No definite promise and what they wrote is that the whole post structure to be reviewed. Personally I think this ballot will pass but people should at least vote for the right reasons and not fantasy or false threats

Definitely voting for the right reason. All actions the department promised last May were carried out to the letter. I expect no different this time.

km79

feardeas wrote: »

Definitely voting for the right reason. All actions the department promised last May were carried out to the letter. I expect no different this time.

Just going to ignore the refusal to pay Asti members for s and s work delivered in full under the last agreement ?
Ok
I'm not

feardeas

km79 wrote:

Just going to ignore the refusal to pay Asti members for s and s work delivered in full under the last agreement ? Ok I'm not

Rejecting it will hardly ensure payment. No point in huffing and sulking either.

km79

feardeas wrote: »

Rejecting it will hardly ensure payment. No point in huffing and sulking either.

Ok so just accept all the"promises " and ignore the fact that the last one we signed up to was NOT honoured ?????
Where do I sign up

MrJones1973

feardeas wrote: »

Definitely voting for the right reason. All actions the department promised last May were carried out to the letter. I expect no different this time.

And that's why the department will always win. You keep giving in. In the history of the state the department has never punished pupils for the actions of the Union. Think about whether they really would do that. Fianna fail is opposed to such action and FG have no majority. Asti like an abused spouse. Department uses FEMPI fist and we roll over but to be fair this time we lacked clear leadership.
The JC only has relevance in schools anyway in terms of determining levels for LC. Thus a school can compensate .

acequion

feardeas wrote: »

Rejecting it will hardly ensure payment. No point in huffing and sulking either.

It's not huffing and sulking. It's sticking to your guns and not being ruled by fear.

acequion

2011abc wrote: »

At least wait till the end of January .I left before but they seem(ed) to be finally fighting and Im back .Every vote counts in the next one .It could be the last one although a part of me still fears that was the notorious LRA vote a few years ago .All this assumes you are opposed to pay apartheid and arent simply swayed by the governments crumbs .And yes Ive had LPT friends say "But I NEED this 793/1000 etc euro !" Believe me you need to sign off on this deal like a hole in the head!

Delighted you're back 2011abc, we need people like you. I haven't always agreed with you but I like your spirit.

feardeas

Perhaps people could be ruled by pragmatism.

acequion

feardeas wrote: »

Perhaps people could be ruled by pragmatism.

I don't think it's pragmatic to keep rolling over while the employer constantly downgrades pay and conditions. You could understand the need for cuts in a recession but in a steadily recovering economy! And ya I know Trump and Brexit are a threat but must public workers always be the sacrificial lambs??

clunked

At what point do we stop being a group of patsys feardeas? I appreciate you staying around to offer a contrarian view but your responses don't offer any hope or fairness.
There is a feeling among so many teachers that the Dept. have no respect for our profession, that second level teachers are getting a harder going over than others and merely falling into a being part of an ICTU cabal like the TUI and INTO is not delivering enough and there is much worse changes in terms and conditions planned potentially that whatever small restorations in pay is not an adequate compensation.
There is no reassurance coming from the political leadership of the Department or his two predecessors who seem to be following a particular line of action that seems to me being led by the top brass in Marlborough Street and its inspectorate.



<Ok folks take it easy on the personal comments/namecalling, just address the point. Name-calling diminishes the objectivity and weight of a reply. Reconsider the word 'you' in your posts and keep it more general.
Member warned.
MOD
P.s. There was probably more name calling going on earlier on so take the above as a general warning to everyone. Ta.>

acequion

clunked wrote: »

At what point do you stop being a patsy feardeas? I appreciate you staying around to offer a contrarian view but your responses don't offer any hope or fairness. There is a feeling among so many teachers that the Dept. have no respect for our profession, that second level teachers are getting a harder going over than others and merely falling into a being part of an ICTU cabal like the TUI and INTO is not delivering enough and there is much worse changes in terms and conditions planned potentially that whatever small restorations in pay is not an adequate compensation.




<Ok folks take it easy on the personal comments/namecalling, just address the point. Name-calling diminishes the objectivity and weight of a reply. Reconsider the word 'you' in your posts and keep it more general.
Member warned.
MOD
P.s. There was probably more name calling going on earlier on so take the above as a general warning to everyone. Ta.>

Just want to thank clunked's post,especially the emboldened bit.

acequion

feardeas wrote: »

I know from speaking to a good number of colleagues that the op will not be alone in investigating this if the deal is rejected and there is further action that results in continued salary deduction.

That wouldn't be my only reason. I am tired of the seemingly never ending disputes. I am actually worried about my junior english class who have not been in the assessment process thus far. I am a little sick of being shouted down when you raise a point contrary to the view of we fight them on the beaches etc.

I would like to be in a school where there might be the possibility of a return of some posts of responsibility.

There are many reasons and yet I feel very much that one should be unionised. However I am conflicted because I can not say that I think this is the right strategy so frankly I'm at a loss.

I'm going to await the information before ballot although I will vote in favour of acceptance. It will be interesting to see what information is put out particularly the strategy they believe in employing in the event that they get their wish and it is rejected.

If that is continued striking then I, and I believe a lot of other people, have a lot of thinking to do.

feardeas,I don't know how long you've been teaching or if you remember a time when pay and conditions were decent and teachers were happy with their lot. It's not all that long ago. We are all sick of the never ending disputes but you must realise that they are the result of never ending attacks and demands. In such a situation you either put up and shut up which is the course you advocate or you fight against it as many are doing.Whatever the effect it doesn't change the cause,continual attacks in the name of "reform." Just to be very clear on the reason and origin of the constant disputes.

I,too respect your contrarian view,though I quite clearly disagree with it.

feardeas

Evening. Just to answer a direct question, I am 13 years teaching. As for the other comments, everyone can have an opinion although in fairness I see them only serving to highlight one of the points I have of the union branch meetings I have had the misfortune to attend. To call one a patsy while claiming to appreciate a contrarian view is somewhat contradictory.

I know a contributor here is on CEC, I'm wondering is it true that there was about 120 at the meeting out of 180? Understand it's a journey and all and people may have other commitments like weddings/funeral/children sick etc but if that is true then I'd say the absentee list was quite high.

Anyway, just have to say that in my school the mood is different to here but then maybe we are just another kind of echo chamber.

However lads and lassies life is frankly too short for this arguing here, I like my job, enjoy working with the kids I teach and the colleagues I have, I'm very happy in life outside school so all the best to ye, enjoy Christmas and it will be no length until the evenings get a bit of a stretch.

acequion

feardeas wrote: »

Evening. Just to answer a direct question, I am 13 years teaching. As for the other comments, everyone can have an opinion although in fairness I see them only serving to highlight one of the points I have of the union branch meetings I have had the misfortune to attend. To call one a patsy while claiming to appreciate a contrarian view is somewhat contradictory.

I know a contributor here is on CEC, I'm wondering is it true that there was about 120 at the meeting out of 180? Understand it's a journey and all and people may have other commitments like weddings/funeral/children sick etc but if that is true then I'd say the absentee list was quite high.

Anyway, just have to say that in my school the mood is different to here but then maybe we are just another kind of echo chamber.

However lads and lassies life is frankly too short for this arguing here, I like my job, enjoy working with the kids I teach and the colleagues I have, I'm very happy in life outside school so all the best to ye, enjoy Christmas and it will be no length until the evenings get a bit of a stretch.

There were about 140 out of 180 present at the CEC meeting and considering that it was convened two days in advance to people all over Ireland in the month of December,I would consider that a phenomenal attendance and a testament to the commitment of the members.

MrJones1973

The truth of the matter is Feadras does represent a sizable chunk of staff-if not the majority now
Most teachers not newly qualified and will look at deal as improvement plus note the way man newly qualified jumped ship or didnt join union. I have evidence of this in my own school. Particularly the latter.
Bad planning in Nov/headless chickens in ASTI-I have gone on ad nauseuem about this so will leave it.

The Jc has so far touched only 3 subjects so most dont know how full of bull **** it is (the JC)

They should still vote No but many teachers are comfortable and have no ambition for promotion or dont really care about lack of planning in schools. Many work in schools where principal does not take Bull**** from department that seriously.

I hope it wont pass.