Minerals-- bolus or bucket

jd06

Hi
I bought mineral buckets last week to put with the weanlings and stores. 16 euro a pop.
Would I be better off getting an allsure bolus with the basics and give it to them. There on slats and I reckon they need basic minerals.
The weanlings are getting 1kg of meal but but the stores are on silage only. By the end of the winter I'd have a lot of buckets bought
What are ye doing
Or what products are ye using
Thanks

ABlur

jd06 wrote: »

Hi
I bought mineral buckets last week to put with the weanlings and stores. 16 euro a pop.
Would I be better off getting an allsure bolus with the basics and give it to them. There on slats and I reckon they need basic minerals.
The weanlings are getting 1kg of meal but but the stores are on silage only. By the end of the winter I'd have a lot of buckets bought
What are ye doing
Or what products are ye using
Thanks

Bolus all the way the buckets will break you! No way of ensuring each animal gets the correct amount from the bucket as one animal may hog it all the time. They're mostly molasses anyway.

_Brian

ABlur wrote: »

Bolus all the way the buckets will break you! No way of ensuring each animal gets the correct amount from the bucket as one animal may hog it all the time. They're mostly molasses anyway.

Same here..
Wouldnt go back...

jd06

ABlur wrote: »

Bolus all the way the buckets will break you! No way of ensuring each animal gets the correct amount from the bucket as one animal may hog it all the time. They're mostly molasses anyway.

Would you give it to all cattle and cows
Does the bolus last 6 months. Might do the cows after Christmas should see them through calving and bulling

ABlur

jd06 wrote: »

Would you give it to all cattle and cows
Does the bolus last 6 months. Might do the cows after Christmas should see them through calving and bulling

The bolus is supposed to last 6 months.

Muckit

If animals are really lacking minerals they'll be licking girders and chewing water pipes or timbers under feed barrier. But you don't want things to get to this stage. Your silage could well be adequate on it's own, but it may not. Who knows?

Minerals are one of those things that cattle just need enough of. They can't store them so anything surplus to their daily requirements is excreted and effectively wasted.

If feeding a beef nut with silage, then minerals will be included in it. A grain based loose ration will need mineral supplementation.

I am feeding a loose powdered mineral to weanlings. You buy it in a bag. I sprinkle a very light dusting on top of ration or silage. I also have a lump of himalyian rock salt at each pen.

You also can buy the square salt lick blocks. Can't really talk about how good/bad they are but remember oul lad using them years ago.

RobinBanks

Just to add to what muckit said there. If feeding a mineral then a bolus is not enough by itself. It only covers the trace elements not the macro minerals

L1985

Guys excuse my ignorance but this has just confused me. Our cattle in the slats are on silage only-were going through 2buckets of minerals a week each last winter so was looking at boluses for this winter. Would the boluses not sustain them over the 6months or would it pass through them? New to this as dad has always used to buckets or copper injection.

Lady Haywire

We normally use licks in front of the barrier and move them about from pen to pen but am thinking of changing it this year. Does anyone know if you can put these- http://www.mayohealthcare.ie/drinkingwatersupplements.html into the drinkers in the shed or does it have to be a large drinker?

Noticed heifers licking pee today too, time for a salt lick! We normally use the red blocks, tie them with a rope between two pens.

ganmo

ABlur wrote: »

The bolus is supposed to last 6 months.

I've seen blood samples where the effects of boluses were gone after 3 months.

Now if you have a know specific deficiency boluses are the way to go. Buckets and powders have the major minerals(calcium sodium pros and mag) with more trace elements than would fit into a bolus.

My suggestion...get your silage tested for minerals. Could save you a fortune

Never wrestle with pigs

L1985 wrote: »

Guys excuse my ignorance but this has just confused me. Our cattle in the slats are on silage only-were going through 2buckets of minerals a week each last winter so was looking at boluses for this winter. Would the boluses not sustain them over the 6months or would it pass through them? New to this as dad has always used to buckets or copper injection.

Two blouses/doses for big cattle and one for yearlings on turn in and the same on turn out. Job done. Everything is covered then. Use the allsure here the last few years and it's doing the job. Unless you're silage is very bad that will be fine.

pedigree 6

ganmo wrote: »

I've seen blood samples where the effects of boluses were gone after 3 months.

There are some boluses that last just 3 months. I know Osmonds have a 6 month and a 3 month one and then there's a difference in minerals and quantities in each and what they're used for. There's no one bolus that will do all animals all the year round. I remember a farmer who had slow lazy calvers and he was just blaming it on the cows waiting for the Jack. He didn't realise the silage was too high in some mineral.
You could test the silage and it would be ok but the cows are drinking high sulphate water from a deep borehole and it upsets copper metabolism. So another factor there.

mf240

pedigree 6 wrote: »

There are some boluses that last just 3 months. I know Osmonds have a 6 month and a 3 month one and then there's a difference in minerals and quantities in each and what they're used for. There's no one bolus that will do all animals all the year round. I remember a farmer who had slow lazy calvers and he was just blaming it on the cows waiting for the Jack. He didn't realise the silage was too high in some mineral.
You could test the silage and it would be ok but the cows are drinking high sulphate water from a deep borehole and it upsets copper metabolism. So another factor there.

Most likely high k in the silage causing sub clinical milk fever . Extra mag would solve that.

Base price

Personally from my experience I would go with a bolus. We have had good response from Alltrace/Smalltrace boluses over the years and that is why we still use them.

Signpost

Any bolus have vit E, D & B12 in them as well as trace elements?

ganmo

pedigree 6 wrote: »

There are some boluses that last just 3 months. I know Osmonds have a 6 month and a 3 month one and then there's a difference in minerals and quantities in each and what they're used for. There's no one bolus that will do all animals all the year round. I remember a farmer who had slow lazy calvers and he was just blaming it on the cows waiting for the Jack. He didn't realise the silage was too high in some mineral.
You could test the silage and it would be ok but the cows are drinking high sulphate water from a deep borehole and it upsets copper metabolism. So another factor there.

It was meant to be a 6 month bolus, any bolus will have a decreasing supply curve it's just the nature of the beast

Sulphur plays merry hell with copper selenium.

Mooooo

Right job would be blood test. Bag minerals twice a day on silage be cheaper

Bass Reeves

I try to buy minerals with as little calcium in them as possible. Calcium in the form of Limestone flour provides calcium again at up to 10-15gr/100kgs. Limestone flour is about 4=5 euro/bag. At present I am buying the Superchoice from Dairygold at 15.50 euro/25kgs. It is 25% calcium and is supposed to de fed at 25grams/100kgs to a max of 100grams/head/day. If the ration you are feeding is 3%minerals and you are feeding 2kgs/head then cattle are getting 60grams of minerals.

My stores would be on silage alone they are mostly 400kg+. At 90grms/day a bag will give do 20 400kg+ cattle for a week it costs 5.5c/day and calcium about 1c/head/day. I have a few weanlings for a 300kg weanling getting 1Kg of nuts (the nut is 2%minerals as it is for finishing cattle and I sprinkle a bit of soya on top) they need 40grams/head/day it costs less than 3c/head a day for minerals and limestone flour.

Mind you when you are feeding 60 cattle all them cents add up.

http://www.agritrading.ie/Minerals-for-Beef-Cattle

jimmy2pens

Anyone know where I can order Cosecure bolus on line?

Muckit

Bass Reeves wrote: »

At present I am buying the Superchoice from Dairygold at 15.50 euro/25kgs.
My stores would be on silage alone they are mostly 400kg+. At 90grms/day a bag will give do 20 400kg+ cattle for a week it costs 5.5c/day and calcium about 1c/head/day.

Mind you when you are feeding 60 cattle it all adds up

Do you test your silage for mineral deficiency bass? Going through a bag of mineral a week for 20 cattle seems excessive.

Do you feed loose mineral to store cattle at grass?

Who2

The vet told me that a good bagged mineral can't be beaten, he says people have too much faith in the blouses and that they aren't near as reliable as people think. I m with bass on the limestone flour, I also throw a sprinkle of seaweed and throw up a few of the cheap salt blocks. I'm throwing the cows soya the last few weeks and they seem to be bagging up a bit better than usual, now if I could just get the cattles coats a wee bit oilier.

Bass Reeves

Muckit wrote: »

Bass Reeves wrote: »

At present I am buying the Superchoice from Dairygold at 15.50 euro/25kgs.
My stores would be on silage alone they are mostly 400kg+. At 90grms/day a bag will give do 20 400kg+ cattle for a week it costs 5.5c/day and calcium about 1c/head/day.

Mind you when you are feeding 60 cattle it all adds up

Do you test your silage for mineral deficiency bass? Going through a bag of mineral a week for 20 cattle seems excessive.

Do you feed loose mineral to store cattle at grass?

No just feed minerals ( bagged) as per instructions.Max/ head is 80-100grams/ head. For 20 cattle over 400 kgs max should be 1.5-2kgs/ day 10-15 kgs/ week.. so a bag should last 20 cattle over 400 kgs 12-18 days.

nhg

We've given the allsure bolus to our calves (Jan/Feb/Mar born) & forward stores for the last few years at housing... All on silage only for winter (calves on various nuts from birth until housing).

Just wondering what everyone's opinion is currently on the allsure bolus..

49801

Bolus good for targeting specific animals like in calf heifers or shy cows. Otherwise sprinkle powder on the silage once a day

nhg

That time of year again, getting ready to dose weanlings & stores.... Gave allsure bolus at this stage the last few years too. All on silage only since housed in late November, weanlings were on nuts up to housing.

Dry stock - Dairy bull calf to finished beef bullock system here..

Just wondering what's ye're opinion on the bolus now.

_Brian

We’ve been using bolus here for a number of years and find them very successful.

Bass Reeves

nhg wrote: »

That time of year again, getting ready to dose weanlings & stores.... Gave allsure bolus at this stage the last few years too. All on silage only since housed in late November, weanlings were on nuts up to housing.

Dry stock - Dairy bull calf to finished beef bullock system here..

Just wondering what's ye're opinion on the bolus now.

If the weanlings are on nuts that have 3% minerals they should need no further supplementation if getting over 1.5 Kg/day

Use bagged minerals myself spread along top of silage. Supposed to feed at 20 grams/100kgs. This year I am slightly modifying my feeding rates. I am assuming that cattle are getting some mineral/vits from feed so I feed at about 15 grams/100kgs. Now and again I miss a day and usually give there system a rest from minerals for 7-10 days in mid winter. Costs work out a about 4.5c/day or on a 450 kg bullock about 5 euro/head for the winter this year.

_Brian

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If the weanlings are on nuts that have 3% minerals they should need no further supplementation if getting over 1.5 Kg/day

Use bagged minerals myself spread along top of silage. Supposed to feed at 20 grams/100kgs. This year I am slightly modifying my feeding rates. I am assuming that cattle are getting some mineral/vits from feed so I feed at about 15 grams/100kgs. Now and again I miss a day and usually give there system a rest from minerals for 7-10 days in mid winter. Costs work out a about 4.5c/day or on a 450 kg bullock about 5 euro/head for the winter this year.

We bolus at grass, we are high iron area which blocks the uptake of copper, used to be forever injecting copper which is horrible on man and beast.

Low selenium in most Irish pasture, we lost a heifer from selenium diffiency few years ago so vet recommended we bolus everything at grass. We feel it really pays off here anyway.

Bass Reeves

_Brian wrote: »

We bolus at grass, we are high iron area which blocks the uptake of copper, used to be forever injecting copper which is horrible on man and beast.

Low selenium in most Irish pasture, we lost a heifer from selenium diffiency few years ago so very recommended we bolus everything at grass. We feel it really pays off here anyway.

There are exception to everything and specific issues to certain farms. However On average a bullock in my system will receive about 7kgs of mins over the winter. I cannot see how bolus's will give the same hit over a winter. In summer time cattle will draw 50%+ of there minerals from forage and maybe higher so supplementation is not as necessary unless there are farm specific issues as in your case.

Generally i inject copper once to twice during the summer. Its not a real chore as it is done at dosing time and i have a good crush.

_Brian

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There are exception to everything and specific issues to certain farms. However On average a bullock in my system will receive about 7kgs of mins over the winter. I cannot see how bolus's will give the same hit over a winter. In summer time cattle will draw 50%+ of there minerals from forage and maybe higher so supplementation is not as necessary unless there are farm specific issues as in your case.

Generally i inject copper once to twice during the summer. Its not a real chore as it is done at dosing time and i have a good crush.

I don’t know the content of the powdered mineral but I’d guess a lot of the 7kg is filler or bulking agent to facilitate spreading evenly.

Interesting conversation with my vet, she said that anywhere you see iron running in drains is very likely that regular copper supplementation will be required. It was my wife who is a nutritionist who at the time explained the chemistry behind iron blocking copper, but I’ll admit it went a bit over my head

Say my name

Spray the silage ground with foliar seaweed spray.

Simples.

_Brian

Say my name wrote: »

Spray the silage ground with foliar seaweed spray.

Simples.

What does that do ?
At with stage and rates of application ?

Bass Reeves

_Brian wrote: »

I don’t know the content of the powdered mineral but I’d guess a lot of the 7kg is filler or bulking agent to facilitate spreading evenly.

Interesting conversation with my vet, she said that anywhere you see iron running in drains is very likely that regular copper supplementation will be required. It was my wife who is a nutritionist who at the time explained the chemistry behind iron blocking copper, but I’ll admit it went a bit over my head

There may be but a bolus is only a few hundred grams and part of that is a metal shell

Base price

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There may be but a bolus is only a few hundred grams and part of that is a metal shell

That is incorrect. Small/All Trace bolus do not have a metal shell and are manufactured to dissolve completely over time. I don't know about other makes.

orm0nd

Base price wrote: »

That is incorrect. Small/All Trace bolus do not have a metal shell and are manufactured to dissolve completely over time. I don't know about other makes.

mhc and agrimin ditto

_Brian

Base price wrote: »

That is incorrect. Small/All Trace bolus do not have a metal shell and are manufactured to dissolve completely over time. I don't know about other makes.

Yea.
The odd time one gets coughed up it’s already sticky and messy.

Say my name

_Brian wrote: »

What does that do ?
At with stage and rates of application ?

It'll put minerals in the grass what you're all posting about here. All minerals in the foliar feed are taken in through the leaf.
There'll be none of this soil, root antagonism between minerals going on.

Put it on at the vegetative stage when it can take it in through the leaves.
Rates depends on concentration and recommendation of the supplier.

jntsnk

Say my name wrote: »

It'll put minerals in the grass what you're all posting about here. All minerals in the foliar feed are taken in through the leaf.
There'll be none of this soil, root antagonism between minerals going on.

Put it on at the vegetative stage when it can take it in through the leaves.
Rates depends on concentration and recommendation of the supplier.

Cost/acre?