Neighbour complaining about noisy pump

gebbel

The pump in the photo kicks in when any tap, shower or appliance that uses water is switched on. It is 2 years old and installed as part of a complete house refurb in a mid-terrace house with block walls. On the opposite side of the tank is, we think, the neighbours bedroom. He lost the head at 11.30pm one night when someone had a shower. I looked at it yesterday and, to be honest, yes it makes noise but I expected much more. There are no pipes vibrating or sounds of cavitation etc.
The house is rented to very nice people who are now paranoid to use the water too early or late in case the neighbour gets irate. He demonstrates his frustration by banging on walls and screaming his head off, he never formally complained to them or us but the tenants are half afraid of him I think. I intend to have a chat with him about his irrational behaviour towards them. But in terms of a possible solution..,is there one that doesn't involve moving the tank which obviously can't happen anyway.
Thanks.

arrianalexander

gebbel wrote: »

The pump in the photo kicks in when any tap, shower or appliance that uses water is switched on. It is 2 years old and installed as part of a complete house refurb in a mid-terrace house with block walls. On the opposite side of the tank is, we think, the neighbours bedroom. He lost the head at 11.30pm one night when someone had a shower. I looked at it yesterday and, to be honest, yes it makes noise but I expected much more. There are no pipes vibrating or sounds of cavitation etc.
The house is rented to very nice people who are now paranoid to use the water too early or late in case the neighbour gets irate. He demonstrates his frustration by banging on walls and screaming his head off, he never formally complained to them or us but the tenants are half afraid of him I think. I intend to have a chat with him about his irrational behaviour towards them. But in terms of a possible solution..,is there one that doesn't involve moving the tank which obviously can't happen anyway.
Thanks.

I'd call over and be ultra apologetic. Ie the minute I heard there was an issue I came straight over etc etc

The idea is you need to get into the neighbours house to hear how bad it actually is. You can say can I hear to see if I can tell if it's just the motor or pipes . if you don't charm him enough to hear the noise he hears you will be second guessing yourself. I'd advice bring a friend or plumber but advise them don't say anything in front of neighbour , and for yourself don't commit to anything when you hear sound. Just say 'OK then ' , and make excuse to leave .

Things to keep in mind it's been there 2 years and only now there is an issue.

How long is neighbor there ? Is it rented ?

How long have your tenants been there,

There is a lot of factors involved so it's about getting the facts right and getting full story.

(BTW I'm not expecting you to reply with answers )

Best of luck with it

TPM

the unit in the photo (pressflo multi) is the controller/flow switch for the actual pump.
the pump is possibly fitted in the tank
would it be possible to put something like an insulation jacket around the tank to dull the sound

gebbel

TPM wrote: »

the unit in the photo (pressflo multi) is the controller/flow switch for the actual pump.
the pump is possibly fitted in the tank
would it be possible to put something like an insulation jacket around the tank to dull the sound

Good question and one I'm hoping someone on here can answer. In terms of the house...it's one of those old red brick terraced houses in Dublin that they bought and renovated. They also became friendly enough with this neighbour. But then they moved abroad for work and rented it out. The tenants say the neighbour has never warmed to them etc...I mean the same pump was there when my brother and OH lived there and he never complained then!!
All that aside, if there is any easy solution that will muffle that sound then I'll get it done.

Dardania

It may involve draining the tank, and putting it on some sound absorbing material

Alun

Maybe the previous residents didn't shower at 11.30pm?

I can sympathize myself, as I'm a very light sleeper and those kinds of annoying humming, buzzing noises keep me awake too. The extractor fans in hotel bathrooms are a prime example. It can be difficult to assess how loud and irritating something like that is when there are other background noises going on compared to if you're in bed trying to get to sleep and everything's quiet.

gebbel

Dardania wrote: »

It may involve draining the tank, and putting it on some sound absorbing material

Why drain the tank to wrap material around its exterior?

smjm

Reminds me of this in the news the other day: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/woman-who-claims-little-explosions-water-pump-disturbed-her-life-for-three-years-awarded-7500-35245031.html

sbsquarepants

I live in an apartment and all day and night I can hear pumps turning on and off - they are noisy bastard things. There's not a whole lot can be done to make them quitter. Vibration is likely your biggest culprit - make sure all the pipes are tightly secured to the wall and not vibrating, make sure the pump itself is fixed down and on anti vibration feet of some sort, after that it's just try put something between it and your neighbour to absorb the sound - I have my hot press lined with acoustic insulation and it's still noisy as hell!

gebbel

Yeah it's a typical issue in apartments with their often substandard noise insulation, but I was surprised here as I believed these old houses had really thick block walls between them that sound doesn't easily traverse. Plus it's been pointed out the pump is contained within the tank, so it's not mounted to the floor..the tank is. And listening to it in action...my apartment Stuart Turner negative head pump is waaay louder!! Thank god it's not one of those!

Big Lar

I had the same problem with a pressurised system the noise of the pump would wake the kids if someone flushed the toilet or ran a tap.
Luckily enough I had the tank in the attic so I put a switch on the wall to knock off the pump and used gravity for the toilets and washand basin.
I know it doesn't exactly fix your problem but it's cheap fix and a step closer

lawred2

gebbel wrote: »

The pump in the photo kicks in when any tap, shower or appliance that uses water is switched on. It is 2 years old and installed as part of a complete house refurb in a mid-terrace house with block walls. On the opposite side of the tank is, we think, the neighbours bedroom. He lost the head at 11.30pm one night when someone had a shower. I looked at it yesterday and, to be honest, yes it makes noise but I expected much more. There are no pipes vibrating or sounds of cavitation etc.
The house is rented to very nice people who are now paranoid to use the water too early or late in case the neighbour gets irate. He demonstrates his frustration by banging on walls and screaming his head off, he never formally complained to them or us but the tenants are half afraid of him I think. I intend to have a chat with him about his irrational behaviour towards them. But in terms of a possible solution..,is there one that doesn't involve moving the tank which obviously can't happen anyway.
Thanks.

We've a number of pumps in the house - stand beside them and you hear next to nothing..

However it's vibration/resonation is the problem. Despite all manner of mufflers, rubber washers and sound proofing the pump's inner workings resonate through the walls/pipe work of the house.

Not sure what the solution is.

Dardania

gebbel wrote: »

Dardania wrote: »

It may involve draining the tank, and putting it on some sound absorbing material

Why drain the tank to wrap material around its exterior?

On. The resonance is possibly being transmitted through the base of the tank, so isolating the vibration source is what might be needed. Also, flexible hoses (per lawred's point above) could help with another resonance path

my3cents

A more general question here regarding the OP's set up? Should there be a pressure vessel in the system to stop the pump coming on every time a tap is turned on?

Calahonda52

my3cents wrote: »

A more general question here regarding the OP's set up? Should there be a pressure vessel in the system to stop the pump coming on every time a tap is turned on?

There is one but it wont cover a shower.

OP:
Re this:
intend to have a chat with him about his irrational behaviour towards them

This a poor approach as outlined earlier: at best it is based on hearsay.

Noise at 11:30pm is a different issue from 11:30am.

You may have to look at an electric shower for nocturnal use

In passing, any ethnic, racial, religious over/undertones at play here?

gebbel

Calahonda52 wrote: »

There is one but it wont cover a shower.

OP:
Re this:
intend to have a chat with him about his irrational behaviour towards them

This a poor approach as outlined earlier: at best it is based on hearsay.

Noise at 11:30pm is a different issue from 11:30am.

You may have to look at an electric shower for nocturnal use

In passing, any ethnic, racial, religious over/undertones at play here?

Absolutely not. My approach is always to give respect and I expect it in return. In this case however, the landlord has not given the tenants respect. Unless you think that roaring through a thick wall (unfortunately not thick enough), shouting, and banging doors to convey his displeasure is normal behaviour? I expect him to behave rationally and that possibly includes:

1. Call around and talk to them like a rational adult. They would gladly receive him.

2. Call or email their landlord who he knows. Outline his grievances.

He has done neither. That doesn't change his right to a peaceful nights sleep nor it will not alter my efforts in solving this. But I will admit, part of me feels like giving him a piece of my mind for behaving like he has.

Kristopherus

Does he leave the window open at night?

gebbel

Kristopherus wrote: »

Does he leave the window open at night?

I don't know. I'll be talking to him early next week.

sbsquarepants

gebbel wrote: »

Yeah it's a typical issue in apartments with their often substandard noise insulation, but I was surprised here as I believed these old houses had really thick block walls between them that sound doesn't easily traverse. Plus it's been pointed out the pump is contained within the tank, so it's not mounted to the floor..the tank is. And listening to it in action...my apartment Stuart Turner negative head pump is waaay louder!! Thank god it's not one of those!

That's the bugger I've got - sounds like a jumbo jet taking off!

I didn't realise you could get a pump that sat inside the tank.

Vibration travels surprisingly well through solid walls though, but in all honesty odds are you just have an asshole for a neighbour!

monseiur

Firstly try enclosing the whole unit (pump & tank) in 75mm or 100mm rigid board insulation,(Kingspan or similar) they come in 8' x 4' boards easy to cut to size with hand saw - duct tape will keep them in position + some 8'' spikes. But if the noise is vibrating thorough the floor you may have to place a thick, say 50mm, rubber mat under the unit - this is a worst case scenario as it may involve extending pipe work etc. depending on set up.
Some rubber matting under the actual pump may help.

gebbel

monseiur wrote: »

Firstly try enclosing the whole unit (pump & tank) in 75mm or 100mm rigid board insulation,(Kingspan or similar) they come in 8' x 4' boards easy to cut to size with hand saw - duct tape will keep them in position + some 8'' spikes. But if the noise is vibrating thorough the floor you may have to place a thick, say 50mm, rubber mat under the unit - this is a worst case scenario as it may involve extending pipe work etc. depending on set up.
Some rubber matting under the actual pump may help.

The pump is located within the tank and the tank is rigidly secured to the floor...there's absolutely no movement there.

quietsailor

gebbel wrote: »

The pump is located within the tank and the tank is rigidly secured to the floor...there's absolutely no movement there.

That's the point - vibration travels through solid items like walls and from pumps to the floor via a solid fixing. You need to isolate the tank from the floor to keep the vibration within the tank.

It's the same reason another poster above talked about flexible hoses between the pump and house piping - the vibration won't travel from the pump to pipe work through the flexible hose.

It's standard procedure in industrial applications to isolate pumps by using rubber anti vibration feet and connect the pump to the pipe work using flexible hoses

Man of Aran

quietsailor wrote: »

That's the point - vibration travels through solid items like walls and from pumps to the floor via a solid fixing. You need to isolate the tank from the floor to keep the vibration within the tank.

It's the same reason another poster above talked about flexible hoses between the pump and house piping - the vibration won't travel from the pump to pipe work through the flexible hose.

It's standard procedure in industrial applications to isolate pumps by using rubber anti vibration feet and connect the pump to the pipe work using flexible hoses

+1 on above.

HVACR industry uses stainless steel braiðed hose all the time in connecting Air Handling Units to compressors and condensing units.
Try a refrigeration wholesaler if local plumber shop cannot help. Ensure that spec selected can tolerate water.
Anaconda and United Flexible are 2 brands come to mind.
You will need a plumber to help adapt/ connect to existing.

monseiur

It's obvious from the OP's last post what's causing the noise to vibrate throughout the building, the tank & pump has to be placed on some thick foam/rubber matting + as the whole pipe system has to be disconnected - replace rigid pipes with flexible ones as suggested above (that's a very good suggestion)

runawaybishop

Those pumps also accumulate dirt which causes them to become noisier over time.

alexonhisown

runawaybishop wrote: »

Those pumps also accumulate dirt which causes them to become noisier over time.

Is it recommended to get them serviced?
Mine is not a water submergible one, but i feel sorry for my neighbour because its noisy, he replaced his last year, and i cant hear his new one, but i bet he can hear mine

mad m

Before you alter anything, call in and ask him would it be ok with him when it's suitable to be where he was when pump was on. Ask your tenants to turn pump on and judge sound he is actually hearing for yourself in his house.

gebbel

monseiur wrote: »

It's obvious from the OP's last post what's causing the noise to vibrate throughout the building, the tank & pump has to be placed on some thick foam/rubber matting + as the whole pipe system has to be disconnected - replace rigid pipes with flexible ones as suggested above (that's a very good suggestion)

Estimated cost here?

K.Flyer

My suggestion is to take out the submersible pump and replace it with a floor mounted Kikawa Whisper Flow floor standing pump.
Guarantee you problem solved.

gebbel

Money will not be thrown at this issue and that includes replacing pumps etc. Cost comes into it. As with all things.

Wurley

Hi I know this thread is old but I’m having similar issues but with the apartment above me and wondering if someone can point me in the right direction or was their a solution found. I live in an apartment and since the new owner refurbished the noise levels have gone through the roof esp the water pump and water tank. Everytime the pump activates I can hear it followed by the tank filling. It’s so loud. Also the bathroom fans. I can hear them from mornIng till night The other residents were above me for over 8 years and I hardly ever heard them. I’ve gone through management company and called into them and I’m not getting anywhere. Has anyone ever had a similar issue and got any positive results. I’ve heard you can contact someone from the hse about noise pollution but can’t find the relevant link. Any help would greatly be appreciated. Thanks