Communism and science

realitykeeper

Recently I have come to realize that Communists have a peculiar attitude to science. Like capitalists they appreciate the great benefits that can come from scientific endeavor but their notions about science contain two fundamental flaws.

Firstly, they seem to think that science alone is enough to understand the world and that God is not necessary. This is like trying to attain knowledge without the wisdom that should precede it, in short it is a big mistake.

Secondly, they forget that scientists need to be equipped and motivated. That costs real money (not fiat currency) and for money, one needs capitalism.

130Kph

Communism …..check
Capitalism ………check
Science …………..check
God …………………check
Fiat currency ….check

It’s only missing these :-

Evolution by natural selection
Maslow's hierarchy of needs
Near term perils of the Renminbi
A Baba Vanga prediction

Black Swan

MOD: This OP had been moved from Politics Cafe to Philosophy. Not sure that it belongs here, but I will open it. Before posting, please read our Philosophy charter, and make sure to include a philosophical orientation in your posts. Thanks.

Peregrinus

I think there's a category error here. It's not communists who think or assume that "science alone is enough to understand the world"; it's materialists, and particularly atheist materialists. And while communists - at least, of the Soviet variety - tended to be atheist materialists, there are plenty of atheist materialists who are not communists.

As for science needing money, well, yes, but communists understood this very well, precisely because they were materialists. And, if we look at the history of the soviet union, they diverted enormous resources into science and technology - often at the expense of livings standards - and achieved, in many respects, dramatic progress in both. Where they tended to fall down was not in not putting enough resources into science; it was in sometimes allowing political and/or ideological stances to distort funding priorities, or to substitute for scientific judgment. But we only have to look at the climate change denialist movement to know that that's hardly a phenomenon unique to communism.

Black Swan

realitykeeper wrote: »

Recently I have come to realize that Communists have a peculiar attitude to science.

It should be noted that there was quite a bit of variation in communism; i.e., both the philosophies and practices exhibited marked differences.

realitykeeper wrote: »

Firstly, they seem to think that science alone is enough to understand the world and that God is not necessary.

What about the Catholic liberation-theology combined with Marxist ideas of Brazilian Paulo Freire?

oneilla

Old topic I guess but Marx solidly broke with religion and was a die hard materialist ie. Earth/the universe was not creates by Gods but was a result of bangs, collisions of atoms, evolution etc.

There's an American-Irish Marxist who wrote a whole book on Marxism and science, Helena Sheehan if you want to look her up, think her book is on her DCU page.

As Black Swan notes there is a strain of Marxist thought that is engaged with religion- Limerick's Peadar Kirby had published on liberation theology in South America.

The Soviet Communists and most Euro-Communists were into materialism as opposed to theology. Today there are few Communists anymore but the leftists who claim its heritage tend to be more materialist than theological. At least wrt the origin of life, the earth, universe etc.

me_right_one

Religion and science are not enemies of each other, one spawned the other! They are just two separate paths leading to the same truth.

Morbert

Recently I have come to realize that Communists have a peculiar attitude to science.

Firstly, they seem to think that science alone is enough to understand the world and that God is not necessary. This is like trying to attain knowledge without the wisdom that should precede it, in short it is a big mistake.

Atheism is not a peculiar attitude among scientists or philosophers. It is quite common, and has a solid body of philosophical work behind it. In fact, surveys suggest atheism is the dominant position among philosophers in general [1].

Also, your characterisation of communists is off. Plenty of communists are dialectical materialists, but this is different from metaphysical materialism. The former pertains to the relationship between society and industry/resources, and not to any metaphysical commitment about God.

Secondly, they forget that scientists need to be equipped and motivated. That costs real money (not fiat currency) and for money, one needs capitalism.

Now this is certainly a peculiar claim. You do not need capitalism to have money. Commodification is not exclusive to capitalism, and you can have markets in socialist communities. Communist countries like the USSR had the soviet ruble, for example.

More relevantly: There were plenty of communist scientists engaged in research, so the claim that communism cannot facilitate science can be dismissed out of hand.

[1] https://philpapers.org/surveys/results.pl