Finding a Share in a SEP

zuutroy

Recently got my PPL and flying a club a/c at the moment but when I get a bit more experience I'd like more flexibility to go on touring trips which is difficult with an aircraft in high demand.
Would like to buy something but obviously with the fixed costs it's not that practical if you're doing 30 hours a year.
I've looked around a bit online but there doesn't seem to be much with regard to shares for sale in the likes of a 172/182/SR20 in Ireland. Will be doing the en-route IR soon, so would like to get something that is IFR certified too.
Could anyone point me in the right direction, or is anyone interested in part owning a tourer? Preferably out of EIWT.

martinsvi

your best bet is to call up airfields and talk to people, try giving EINC or Kilrush Airfield a visit/call, get to know people. A lot of times groups will not advertise their shares but might offer you something if you ask.
SEP people also will try to stay away from EIWT, it's expensive there, you can easily save a grand or two a year by staying elsewhere

zuutroy

Yea I know Weston isn't popular because of the expense, but its location is very handy for me. The other 2 would add an hour round trip every time I want to go flying. I wouldn't mind paying the extra for the convenience!

duskyjoe

zuutroy wrote: »

Yea I know Weston isn't popular because of the expense, but its location is very handy for me. The other 2 would add an hour round trip every time I want to go flying. I wouldn't mind paying the extra for the convenience!

Op, shares are as rare as hens teeth and you'll find it nigh or impossible to get a share in an aircraft having little or no experience post ppl. My advise is don't let your licence lapse, keep plugging away and with a few extra hours you never know you might get lucky. Besta luck and congrats on your ppl......

zuutroy

Cheers..I'm still flying every 2 weeks or so and gaining experience. Just hoping someone sees this thread at some point in the future and might contact me!

If it comes to it I might buy myself in 18 months-2 years and hope to find partners in due course to reduce the ongoing cost.

martinsvi

if you finished your PPL on a C150, your C182/SR20 can be a bit handful at first.. and the longer you spend on c150, the more difficult it will become to transition to faster/more slippery aircraft. So I would nearly recommend trying renting out some pipers, c172s as you build experience.. basically rent whatever is out there and don't get complacent

duskyjoe

zuutroy wrote: »

Cheers..I'm still flying every 2 weeks or so and gaining experience. Just hoping someone sees this thread at some point in the future and might contact me!

If it comes to it I might buy myself in 18 months-2 years and hope to find partners in due course to reduce the ongoing cost.

A very inexpensive way of flying and worth thinking of is going the micro light route. Some of their aircraft are akin to a standard aircraft and are as reliable and their bigger cousins. Yes I know you sweated bullets getting your ppl on a 152/172 but just saying. Kilrush and Athboy are micro light friendly with out the b/s of ATC , flight plans, yada yada.

zuutroy

martinsvi wrote: »

if you finished your PPL on a C150, your C182/SR20 can be a bit handful at first.. and the longer you spend on c150, the more difficult it will become to transition to faster/more slippery aircraft. So I would nearly recommend trying renting out some pipers, c172s as you build experience.. basically rent whatever is out there and don't get complacent

Oh yea my last 10 hours are in a 172. Couldn't wait to get out of the 150. The qualifying x/c at 6'5" in a 150 was torture! Certainly intend to do at least another 50 hours of local flying before I take on longer trips and more complex machines.

@duskyjoe Ultimately I want to go further afield so I'd like to keep to the aforementioned.

martinsvi

zuutroy wrote: »

@duskyjoe Ultimately I want to go further afield so I'd like to keep to the aforementioned.

the answer to life, the universe and ultimately everything is RV-7

duskyjoe

martinsvi wrote: »

the answer to life, the universe and ultimately everything is RV-7

PA18 for me. Different folks different strokes. Yes the RV is a superb machine.

zuutroy

martinsvi wrote: »

the answer to life, the universe and ultimately everything is RV-7

Except there's nowhere for the kids, no Ifr and you can't leave the FIR!

Class machine though.

Stovepipe

Wrong: of course you can leave the FIR. Friends of mine who have Rvs have routinely flown abroad and one has gone as far as Cape Town in his.Incidentally, the UK CAA will be allowing IFR and Night flight in them soon.....want to keep up your Group A hours? get involved with Permit aircraft and fly cheaply in great aircraft.

zuutroy

Ah it seems you're correct. Whatever document I read must have been wrong or outdated.

See section 2 of this: http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/TechnicalLeaflets/Operating%20An%20Aircraft/TL%202.10%20Permit%20to%20Fly%20Compared%20with%20a%20C%20of%20A.pdf

I suppose ultimately what I want is something that can carry 4 up at 140 kts and is (or will be in the near future) IFR certified.

I guess in the permit world the Jabiru J430 would be as close as you'd get?

logie101

zuutroy wrote: »

Ah it seems you're correct. Whatever document I read must have been wrong or outdated.

See section 2 of this: http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/TechnicalLeaflets/Operating%20An%20Aircraft/TL%202.10%20Permit%20to%20Fly%20Compared%20with%20a%20C%20of%20A.pdf

I suppose ultimately what I want is something that can carry 4 up at 140 kts and is (or will be in the near future) IFR certified.

I guess in the permit world the Jabiru J430 would be as close as you'd get?

RV 10 is probably closest to your needs if you can find or build one.

Why not join a club based in EIWT? (Trim or Airport Flying Club)

Also why not learn to fly taildraggers? Great fun and changes your notions about flying Cessnas

zuutroy

I am in one of the clubs....See OP!..Haven't looked into taildraggers yet

logie101

zuutroy wrote: »

I am in one of the clubs....See OP!..Haven't looked into taildraggers yet

Ah sorry I see your original post now. I am also a member of a club based in Weston (probably the same one as you). If you book in advance availability for touring is usually very good. If you email the group you will usually get a few interested people to share the costs.

PM me if you want to talk further. If we are in the same club you might be interested in sharing a few flights.

Stovepipe

If you want to get into IFR and touring, have a think about the costs. Unless you split it three or four ways, even a short jaunt across the Irish Sea can hit the pocket hard in your average 172 or Pa 28. If you want to get into inexpensive Group A flying, then consider Permit aircraft like a Piper Cub or a Jodel or one of the other Pipers. They can be had for modest money and operated cheaply and can still be used for touring, albeit slowly and they are not confined to the Westons of this world. You can reduce the hourly cost and still keep the license current. The price of an hour in a Pa 28 would get you three hours in a Jodel, easily, in terms of fuel cost and landing fees (which are still very small in Ireland. Some of the landing fees in the UK would make your eyes water). So, have a look at ILAS and the NMAI.

zuutroy

The RVs look brilliant. Been reading about them all weekend. Would definitely go for the RV7 or RV10 if I could share the cost with 1 or 2 others.
Would prefer the RV10 but by the time I have it built the kids will be nearly teenagers and want nothing to do with us, so I won't need the extra seats!
Thanks for all the advice.

smurfjed

https://afors.com/index.php?page=adview&adid=38628&imid=0

Might be of some interest to you.
or
https://afors.com/index.php?page=adview&adid=27590&imid=0

Stovepipe

Athboy is a lovely field, run by good lads and the 140 is a very good aircraft. Personally, I'd stay away from a C of A Rallye from sheer cost alone.

basill

The relatively inexpensive glass kit that has been coming out in the past 10 years makes me wonder why people bother at all with tired old aircraft that are 30-40 years old and all of the compliance costs that go with them. Much of the kit available puts many airliners to shame.

Stovepipe

True. Its common now to find an IPad in the cockpit for nav, using Skydemon, whilst the aircraft has a couple of relatively cheap Dynons for the main panel.You can run an RV-7 for less than a cessna 172.

Irish Steve

I've been wondering for a long time why the older aircraft remained so attractive, what's going to be a game changer is that the restrictions on permit aircraft are being relaxed by the UK CAA, so it will be possible to fly at night and IFR in a permit aircraft. It was flagged on facebook yesterday,
http://www.pilotweb.aero/news/night_and_ifr_clearance_approved_for_permit_to_fly_aircraft_1_4807679

I've not looked into it yet in any detail, there will have to be appropriate levels of instrumentation and pilot qualification to do so, but that will be a huge game changer for Europe, hopefully, where the CAA have gone, the rest of the regulators will follow.

It's long overdue, the technology has become available at a fraction of the cost, weight and size, we've been seeing for a while the problems that remote pilot drones are causing because they can be navigated so accurately by a device the size of a matchbox, costing less than $50, and with an accuracy that's every bit as good as the complex avionics in a modern jet aircraft.

Having said that, I will also say that for me personally, these flight deck devices had better not be using any flavour of Microsoft Windows, I've said for a long time if I ever saw a Microsoft Logo on a flight deck, that would be the last time I flew in that type, and I've seen nothing over a long period of time to make me change that attitude, Windows is just not reliable enough for mission critical applications like IFR flight

zuutroy

Yeah Dynon seem to make lovely panels for the Vans.

It says on the ILAS FAQ page that the IAA can make an exemption and allow IFR flight in a homebuilt, but I'm not sure if they would in reality.

I think from what I've read here I'd buy an RV-10 in the morning if I had 3 people to split the cost with. By the time it would be built I'm sure IFR will be allowed all over Europe in them

martinsvi

Irish Steve wrote: »

I've been wondering for a long time why the older aircraft remained so attractive

In one word - price. Second hand market for kit aircraft or microlights is not yet saturated as the market is relatively new - therefore it's difficult to get a good decent performance aircraft for affordable price.. You pretty much have to chose between paying 40 to 70k for a decent rig that will be cheap to run or a 40 year old spam can for about 20k that's a bit more pricey to run but requires much less initial investment

basill

Looks like exciting times for the homebuilders.

https://www.caa.co.uk/News/Night-and-IFR-approval-for-Permit-to-Fly-aircraft-following-CAA-LAA-agreement/

http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/TechnicalLeaflets/Operating%20An%20Aircraft/TL%202.28%20Night%20IFR%20assessment.pdf

Stovepipe

The IAA will allow you to do IFR in a homebuilt or Classic if you can make a good case for it. In ILAS, we obtained several changes and exemptions by negotiation. The old attitude of automatic "No" has changed. It takes a bit of work but it can be done.

zuutroy

Stovepipe wrote: »

The IAA will allow you to do IFR in a homebuilt or Classic if you can make a good case for it. In ILAS, we obtained several changes and exemptions by negotiation. The old attitude of automatic "No" has changed. It takes a bit of work but it can be done.

Good info thanks. Filled out my ILAS form during the week Would you get members looking to share a/c on there?

Xpro

Hi.

Just keep on looking around and visit as many airfields around the country and you'll find something somewhere.

But yeah, shares are a good option if you have the right people. Costs are significantly lower and you can do things you can't in the clubs, or when self hiring.

My personal opinion from experience in the aircraft you were looking into:

C172/PA28 nice and affordable machines, but slow and weight limiting.
SR20 Beautiful aircraft, 150kt but really a 3 person machine when full of fuel. And maintenance and upkeep on them is pretty high
SR22 even higher costs, but its a proper rocket! ( I know where there is one possibly for sale, but not not cheap)

C182 The ultimate Private plane! 4Pax, bags, full tanks, 7HR endurance,superb IFR platform. This plane is go places machine, it will go in and out from just about any field in the country and it will do 140kt all day long.
C210 same as 182 but 160kt machine, 6 seats, and much more expensive to operate

Rv7 are nice, but its a two seater after all, in this case microlights can be a better option should you wish to go 2 seater route.

Happy flying:cool: