Cold weather affecting range

BoatMad

30kwh leaf.

Left Gorey for grey stones at 7pm returning at 2am , brimmed to 100% at house GOM reported 188 km, 63km to destination , at destination , 97km on GOM , at 52 % battery , driven at 100 kph . Return journey required 6 mins on cullen more fcp ( 65km on arrival at fcp ) , to arrive home at 3am , with 16% and 27 km on GOM , -2 degrees C , 4 battery bar temp

I lost close to 35km , between grey stones and cullen more !!

I noticed the other day that the heat pump seem to start running at constant 1kW+ immediately when the outside temp is close to 0. Could be a heater of some kind to stop the evaporator freezing?

oinkely

BoatMad wrote: »

30kwh leaf.

Left Gorey for grey stones at 7pm returning at 2am , brimmed to 100% at house GOM reported 188 km, 63km to destination , at destination , 97km on GOM , at 52 % battery , driven at 100 kph . Return journey required 6 mins on cullen more fcp ( 65km on arrival at fcp ) , to arrive home at 3am , with 16% and 27 km on GOM , -2 degrees C , 4 battery bar temp

I lost close to 35km , between grey stones and cullen more !!

Mad that there is no public charger anywhere in greystones. The park & ride carpark would be ideal for a few IMO.

BoatMad

oinkely wrote: »

Mad that there is no public charger anywhere in greystones. The park & ride carpark would be ideal for a few IMO.

Yes, its a very strange omission, not that it would have really helped as my destination is near the centre of the village. I wouldn't have used a SCP anyway, as it would hit the charger for hours , and I know I have wicklow and cullenmore FCPs within easy striking distance


It was no hardship to recharge, in fact I was " bursting" so had to go to Applegreen anyway and I just charged for the time it took for a toilet break

Just more an observation on the quite noticeable effect of cold weather, IN summer Id have cruised home without a worry

cros13

The effect isn't as big with the heated pack on the i3. About ~10% in below freezing vs 20 degree weather, plus of course the heater's consumption.

The Leaf suffers a bit more, especially approaching -5.

On the other hand an ICE suffers an increase in fuel consumption of ~25% in the same conditions.... it's just when you have a lower range to start with that you notice.

KCross

cros13 wrote: »

On the other hand an ICE suffers an increase in fuel consumption of ~25% in the same conditions.... it's just when you have a lower range to start with that you notice.

Does it?

I would have thought that once you had the engine up to temp the ICE would run better in the colder air. Isnt cold air more dense and so you can get more of it in for combustion?

Or is the 25% lost on getting the engine to running temp?

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

The effect isn't as big with the heated pack on the i3. About ~10% in below freezing vs 20 degree weather, plus of course the heater's consumption.

The Leaf suffers a bit more, especially approaching -5.

On the other hand an ICE suffers an increase in fuel consumption of ~25% in the same conditions.... it's just when you have a lower range to start with that you notice.

The efficiency of an Otto Cycle engine actually improves with lowering external temperature ( which is why intercoolers are present ), however the gains are very small and typically offset by other factors including pushing the car through denser air and the viscosity of lubricants in colder temps, etc

I would however seriously think its nothing like 25%

Idbatterim

is there nothing to heat the battery and cabin on cold days, before you start your drive? i.e when its plugged into the mains?

BoatMad

Idbatterim wrote: »

is there nothing to heat the battery and cabin on cold days, before you start your drive? i.e when its plugged into the mains?

no not on a Leaf , the battery temperature is uncontrolled, the issue is more to do with the charging temperature then the operating temperature as in practice the battery heats a bit in usage , but doesnt on the 6,6kw charger cycle

KCross

Idbatterim wrote: »

is there nothing to heat the battery and cabin on cold days, before you start your drive? i.e when its plugged into the mains?

Battery no
Cabin yes. You set it via phone app or timer in the car

josip

cros13 wrote: »

The effect isn't as big with the heated pack on the i3. About ~10% in below freezing vs 20 degree weather, plus of course the heater's consumption.

The Leaf suffers a bit more, especially approaching -5.

On the other hand an ICE suffers an increase in fuel consumption of ~25% in the same conditions.... it's just when you have a lower range to start with that you notice.

In our ICE (diesel) there is a 15% difference in fuel consumption (on trips above 100km) for the temp range -10C to 38C.
The difference between the Irish extremes would be about 7-8%

cros13

I was using some of the numbers fleetkarma based this on...but i got them reversed in my head :

josip

cros13 wrote: »

I was using some of the numbers fleetkarma based this on...but i got them reversed in my head :

Don't worry, everyone will remember the first set of numbers you posted.:)
That's the way it is with media.

Phil.x

BoatMad wrote: »

30kwh leaf.

Left Gorey for grey stones at 7pm returning at 2am , brimmed to 100% at house GOM reported 188 km, 63km to destination , at destination , 97km on GOM , at 52 % battery , driven at 100 kph . Return journey required 6 mins on cullen more fcp ( 65km on arrival at fcp ) , to arrive home at 3am , with 16% and 27 km on GOM , -2 degrees C , 4 battery bar temp

I lost close to 35km , between grey stones and cullen more !!

That's a very complicated drive..

magentis

Jeez thats the last thing I would fancy doing at that hour in this weather,having to detour to a charging point,get out in the cold to plug it in and wait....these battery cars really need to have a minimum range of 500km to make any sense.The manufacturers should really pack more battery in and make the boot even smaller or something.

I get to work with around 5-8% less at -2 to 0 as I approached Dublin so the difference is not large once you pre heat, pre heating the leaf off the battery will make a more notable difference.

Preheating also uses the resistance heating to speed up warm up much more than the heat pump. I've seen it push 4.5 Kw if I did not pre heat before getting in to the car.

Pre heating also does not use the heat pump.

A cold battery can't store as much energy.

I find wet roads will have more of an impact wet and wind makes more of a difference if you ask me.

The heat pump is less effective the more the temps go below 0.

n97 mini

BoatMad wrote: »

no not on a Leaf , the battery temperature is uncontrolled

There is a battery heater but it doesn't come on till something very very low like -12C. And it's only to stop the battery freezing. I need to check the manual again for the actual temperature.

KCross

n97 mini wrote: »

There is a battery heater but it doesn't come on till something very very low like -12C. And it's only to stop the battery freezing. I need to check the manual again for the actual temperature.

I thought that was only an extra for the scandinavian countries and probably not in ours? Could be wrong.

n97 mini

KCross wrote: »

I thought that was only an extra for the scandinavian countries and probably not in ours? Could be wrong.

It's mentioned in our owners manual. I'll check again later.

KCross

KCross wrote: »

I thought that was only an extra for the scandinavian countries and probably not in ours? Could be wrong.

It is quoted as "Li-ion battery warmer(where fitted)".
It comes on at -17 and off at -10.

Cant see how/why that would be in a UK or Irish car by default.

BoatMad

Phil.x wrote: »

That's a very complicated drive..

how is it complicated , its a drive to greystones an back !!!

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

I was using some of the numbers fleetkarma based this on...but i got them reversed in my head :

usual BS info-graphic, to suggest that cabin heating is having that effect is just nonsense and is not borne our by reality ,

With pre heating from the mains I have not seen more than a small impact with temp at 21-22 Degrees climate control.

Cold ,Dry and calm isn't as much of an impact as very wet and windy.

Once the car is pre heated from the mains it won't use a huge amount of energy. Pre heating from the battery has a good bit more notable effect, on the mains pre heating can take 40-45 mins depending on how cold it is and has a good chance to really warm the interior so it kind of has a storage effect.

Check your tyre pressures, I run 38 PSI.

Low tyre pressures will have a much greater impact in an EV.

cros13

BoatMad wrote:

usual BS info-graphic, to suggest that cabin heating is having that effect is just nonsense and is not borne our by reality ,

In fairness... Check the detail of the info graphic and the dataset behind it.

1. Almost all the cars in the data use resistance heaters.

2. The temperatures involved are substantially lower than we see in Ireland.

TBi

Our i3 has gone from 120-130km range down to 90km range on these cold days (-5). Much more reduction than i was expecting!

I drive 67 Kms to work at 100-120 Kph and have 35% left in this weather giving another 40-45 kms.

BoatMad

What a difference a rise in temp makes

Gorey to Enfield on one charge Enfield Athlone -kilbeggan on 80 % charge

zilog_jones

That FleetKarma thing suggests up to 13% range reduction from tyres "winter+inflation": Is it saying that winter tyres will reduce efficiency, or the lack of winter tyres will reduce efficiency in colder temperatures? They should have better grip at temperatures below around 7 degrees C, but I'm not sure about rolling resistance - EU tyre label efficiency rating is probably not very useful in this respect as it's measured on a machine indoors, not anything resembling Irish winter climate.