How to figure out if I can use the train?

JamesFlynn

Is it possible to figure out what destinations can be reached from a particular station or location?

I live near Grand Canal Dock and would like to create a little map for my flatmates and visitors of where they can get to by rail.

We could bike over to the Docklands station or the Luas at the Point Depot. I'd like to create a map that shows if and how long it would take us to get to places if we used public transport rather than driving.

The Luas is easy and ok, but it doesn't seem possible to figure this out for an irish rail station. Have done a bit of googling but can't seem to find a place where the answer is easily available - any pointers?

I tried the Irish Rail site - there are timetables for the Grand Canal Dock station, but I thought the new Phoenix Park tunnel would open up new options for us, though the latest timetable there seems to be from 2013 so would not include them.

Is there any place where one can compare travel journey times by current rail public transport options versus driving? Google Maps has this option but that must be less up to date than local options?

XPS_Zero

JamesFlynn wrote: »

Is it possible to figure out what destinations can be reached from a particular station or location?

I live near Grand Canal Dock and would like to create a little map for my flatmates and visitors of where they can get to by rail.

We could bike over to the Docklands station or the Luas at the Point Depot. I'd like to create a map that shows if and how long it would take us to get to places if we used public transport rather than driving.

The Luas is easy and ok, but it doesn't seem possible to figure this out for an irish rail station. Have done a bit of googling but can't seem to find a place where the answer is easily available - any pointers?

I tried the Irish Rail site - there are timetables for the Grand Canal Dock station, but I thought the new Phoenix Park tunnel would open up new options for us, though the latest timetable there seems to be from 2013 so would not include them.

Is there any place where one can compare travel journey times by current rail public transport options versus driving? Google Maps has this option but that must be less up to date than local options?

Yep, easy
1.Go to the Irish rail app

2. Go to live trains along the bottom

3. Put in the station name and a time of day it will show next hour or threes departures. You can move the time forward to see rest of the day
Final destination is listed beside departure time as are journey times

4. Click on a particular train you will see every calling station along the way, on the top right you'll see a kind of square, if you click it a map will appear showing the line run over a google maps field you can set map view, satellite view etc to switch map view modes touch the circle on bottom right of map

I personally don't know an app that compares to road time, google maps will give you an idea of road time if you ask directions from A to B then you can compare to Irish rail map

There's a full regional and national hi res rail maps on Irish Rails website

The PP tunnel will be listed using this method.
Get a leap card cappings important if you'll be rail exploring

You could print the various route maps or the ones for custom journeys you select. If the app won't let you do it take a screenshot and email the pic to yourself then print from a laptop or pic

There's hard paper copies of the new tunnel timetables beside the door at the customer service desk in Connoly but tbh the apps easier to understand

JamesFlynn

Hi XPS,

That's really helpful thank you - I will look up that irish rail mobile app and combine it with the luas website and the dublin bus website and the AirCoach website, and the Swords Express website and using Microsoft Paint, create a little map that shows my flatmates where the local bus stops, luas stops and irish rail stations are in relation to our house, along with where those stops/stations can go to.

This map will hopefully result in me and them taking public transportation more frequently.

It would promote more public transport usage if this information was available in a central location without having to access multiple websites and mobile apps.

There is a starting point for this at:
http://www.journeyplanner.transportforireland.ie/
however - for example today - it shows that you need to change at pearse for newbridge from GCD - there's no way of knowing that you can travel direct. I believe at least according to the press releases from irish rail that you don't need to change trains any more.

We've got a lot more public transport options now in Dublin than before but it's difficult to understand what is available. If there was a website where you could enter in your eircode or address and get some indication of the destinations one could reach by rail/luas/bus etc it would drive more users to public transport.

XPS_Zero

JamesFlynn wrote: »

Hi XPS,

That's really helpful thank you - I will look up that irish rail mobile app and combine it with the luas website and the dublin bus website and the AirCoach website, and the Swords Express website and using Microsoft Paint, create a little map that shows my flatmates where the local bus stops, luas stops and irish rail stations are in relation to our house, along with where those stops/stations can go to.

This map will hopefully result in me and them taking public transportation more frequently.

It would promote more public transport usage if this information was available in a central location without having to access multiple websites and mobile apps.

There is a starting point for this at:
http://www.journeyplanner.transportforireland.ie/
however - for example today - it shows that you need to change at pearse for newbridge from GCD - there's no way of knowing that you can travel direct. I believe at least according to the press releases from irish rail that you don't need to change trains any more.

We've got a lot more public transport options now in Dublin than before but it's difficult to understand what is available. If there was a website where you could enter in your eircode or address and get some indication of the destinations one could reach by rail/luas/bus etc it would drive more users to public transport.

Luas has route maps
Swords Expeesss has route maps
Dublin Bus has none, closest I have is a PDF made by private entity and it doest follow streets just straightened out lines similar to dart map

Don't get confused with the tunnel. Not every train going to the tunnel goes all the way to newbridge many stop at Haxelhatch
On some isolated train journeys through the tunnel you need to get off and wait for next train, mostly not though, depends where you're going the Irish rail app is ALWAYS correct on changes of train etc

Also critical to remember at the start the tunnels a limited service to begin with while demand is assessed. It's mainly ATM designed to get people from west Dublin TO cc in work in am and BACK in evenings so they can avoid Houston and having to get a slow trundling Luas the rest of the way to work. There are some trains that go to west dub in am and back to cc in evening but limited times and some require change st Cherry Orchard.

So it's not running off peak just rush hour / school hours ATM

Use the individual apps do NOT use the general NTA planner it's f----g diabolical in the routes it gives you. It once suhhested I get to Derry by getting three seperate busses when there's one bus right from Dublin or you can go by rail with one platform change in Belfast never trust it its crap, in that case it didn't give me the rail options at all I had to use the Translink app which was far better for cross border journeys

The NTA app is meant to be the ALL in one but it's shockingly bad. Just there using apple version trying to put in hypothetical journeys I'm familiar with the best routes for to test it I went to settings to add trains and scrap taxis in options and realised there was no way out of the settings page back to my planner It took me ages to get back out of it to even test the journeys and I'm v v tech savvy imagine a pensioner trying to use it


Then I tested Dalkey to Swords the only option it gave was DART and Swords Express when there's three options, ^ that, DART to Malahide or Sutton and a quick 102 trip or DART to CC and Dublin Bus
Express is fastest sure but not the only option

Tested it again from Dalkey to my sisters in Adamstown it gives DART then 25a/b as only options not mentioning I could go DART to Connoly then Luas to Heuston then train OR the simplest and most comfortable trip: DART to GCD cross the platform to an intercity train and go through Phoenix Park Tunnel str8 to Adamstown there's no option of thus listed even when I intentionally set the departure time for rush hour

JamesFlynn

Thanks XPS,

I thought it was just me who had bad experiences with the Transport for Ireland website - it's an ok first attempt but i've not found it trustworthy and the User Interface is confusing and out of date.

In contrast, when over on the closest big island to the east, the following sites have always been accurate for me:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ for longer distance travel and
https://tfl.gov.uk/ if in London

Just put in an origin and destination postcode along with a time and you've got every option available - bus, tram, underground, intercity train, private bus, walking, cycling - all in one place - I've used both sites for years and I've never been let down yet.

I'm doing up a local public transport map for our house because an Irish equivalent national transport website doesn't exist yet - unless I'm mistaken?

XPS_Zero

JamesFlynn wrote: »

Thanks XPS,

I thought it was just me who had bad experiences with the Transport for Ireland website - it's an ok first attempt but i've not found it trustworthy and the User Interface is confusing and out of date.

In contrast, when over on the closest big island to the east, the following sites have always been accurate for me:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ for longer distance travel and
https://tfl.gov.uk/ if in London

Just put in an origin and destination postcode along with a time and you've got every option available - bus, tram, underground, intercity train, private bus, walking, cycling - all in one place - I've used both sites for years and I've never been let down yet.

I'm doing up a local public transport map for our house because an Irish equivalent national transport website doesn't exist yet - unless I'm mistaken?

There's this:

http://www.transportforireland.ie But same crap planner though does have great maps

TFI is following TFL the idea is like London it under the NTA will run all transport eventually taking it out of the rather criminally incapable a d ineffecent hands of CIE who only know how to do two things: hike prices, close lines, repeat
Dub Bus and Bus Eireann do a vastly superior job to IE though, though IE have got better

Look at the London Citymapper app it's the gold standard

XPS_Zero

The TFI "real time" app IS good though it tags your location zooms in by gps shows as blue dots all bus stops ands rail or tram stops in your area if you click on one you get next few departures / arrivals and can set alarms or timers for a specific stop to alert you when a bus or trains x min away

We are way behind Europe but LIGHT YEARS ahead of where we were pre NDP, Transport 21 and Dublin Buses network direct and the DART UPGRADE plan

Pre 1999 it was basically a third world system with trains from the 60s or 50s with wood in carriages still on the tracks. No Luas , no 8 carriage DARTs, no super sized double deckers, no smart cards, though there were some better ticket options inc multi modal ones like the DART-Bus Nitelink Combo ticket which let you get the DART to town and nitelink home on one ticket for €4.50 .
Naturally this great idea was scrapped lest it accidentally lead to passenger satisfaction or the appearance of conpetense by CIE

Losty Dublin

XPS_Zero wrote: »

Luas has route maps
Swords Expeesss has route maps
Dublin Bus has none, closest I have is a PDF made by private entity and it doest follow streets just straightened out lines similar to dart map

Dublin Bus actually use Google maps to locate its routes and stops through their app and website

JamesFlynn

Thanks for the pointer to CityMapper - the website and app looks really very very good - I see they are considering Dublin as a future location so if you have time get on the site and vote for Dublin:

https://citymapper.com/cities

A suggestion would be for transportforireland.ie to simply outsource their website and mobile app development to citymapper.com or a similar company? They could whitelabel the front end and focus on providing accurate data by integrating the back end timetabling and Real Time Information systems? I could be a lot cheaper than maintaining the 5 separate mobile apps and 1 website they currently do.

Citymapper.com are currently providing a much superior experience for end users and look like they're expert in that area; transportforireland.ie don't need to be experts in User Experience or User Interface - they rather need to be expert in how to tie together the various back end systems in Dublin to feed into a front end like citymapper.com or even maps.google.com already provide.

I work in this area and know how much politics and ego play into decisions like this, but imo transportforireland.ie should focus on its expertise and not try to be expert in website and mobile app user experience - there are others out there who will always do it better and they don't have to re-invent the wheel every time.

end of the road

XPS_Zero wrote: »

TFI is following TFL the idea is like London it under the NTA will run all transport eventually taking it out of the rather criminally incapable a d ineffecent hands of CIE who only know how to do two things: hike prices, close lines, repeat

and who approves the fare hikes? who approved the last line closure? that's right, TFI/NTA. Absolutely CIE are responsible for disaster after disaster, but TFI/NTA isn't much better so lets not pretend they will be this great saviour of public transport, because they aren't.

XPS_Zero wrote: »

Pre 1999 it was basically a third world system with trains from the 60s or 50s with wood in carriages still on the tracks.

the wooden carriges were gone by the start of the 90s. and even then i believe it was just a set on the ballina shuttle that survived until then. even so they would have survived within their life span or maybe a bit longer. if they were barely maintained then that's a different story and they're would be a legitimate complaint.

the carriges from the 60s would have been 30 years old by the 90s, old but still very functional (well in fairness that probably is debatible considering how CIE treated them) . but in general carriges of that age are perfectly fine unless they are in the hands of CIE.

Hilly Bill

You can print off a map of all the train stations in the Dublin area from the IR website.

AngryLips

Transport for Ireland have a really good network map and literally the only place you can find it is on their website. When are they going to take over the information displays of all the public transport providers?

Conchir

This map shows approximately where you can get to in a certain amount of time. It's sort of accurate, probably a bit too optimistic mostly. I've tested a lot of different routes I normally take and it's definitely a "best case scenario/best conditions" type of thing. Still cool though. Plenty of cities too. Just drop the marker where you want it and adjust the time.

http://www.mapnificent.net/dublin/

It's not massively practical in that it doesn't show how you get to those places, it's more of a visualization thing.

devnull

XPS_Zero wrote: »

Use the individual apps do NOT use the general NTA planner it's f----g diabolical in the routes it gives you. It once suhhested I get to Derry by getting three seperate busses when there's one bus right from Dublin or you can go by rail with one platform change in Belfast never trust it its crap, in that case it didn't give me the rail options at all I had to use the Translink app which was far better for cross border journeys

The NTA app is meant to be the ALL in one but it's shockingly bad. Just there using apple version trying to put in hypothetical journeys I'm familiar with the best routes for to test it I went to settings to add trains and scrap taxis in options and realised there was no way out of the settings page back to my planner It took me ages to get back out of it to even test the journeys and I'm v v tech savvy imagine a pensioner trying to use it

Then I tested Dalkey to Swords the only option it gave was DART and Swords Express when there's three options, ^ that, DART to Malahide or Sutton and a quick 102 trip or DART to CC and Dublin Bus Express is fastest sure but not the only option

Tested it again from Dalkey to my sisters in Adamstown it gives DART then 25a/b as only options not mentioning I could go DART to Connoly then Luas to Heuston then train OR the simplest and most comfortable trip: DART to GCD cross the platform to an intercity train and go through Phoenix Park Tunnel str8 to Adamstown there's no option of thus listed even when I intentionally set the departure time for rush hour

The idea of the planner is to give you the fastest option, that is the whole point of the route planner and if you don't want that change the settings so that you have the one with the fewest changes. I certainly don't want a planner by default to recommend me a 4 hour direct route if I can do 2 changes and do it in two and a half hours.

Route planners all around the world work on the same basis, and the journey planner engine that is used for TFI is used the world over, it's the most in use system anywhere in Europe for multi-mode transport planning systems. You can find a list of their clients here: https://www.mentz.net/ueber-uns/unsere-kunden/ yes, it's the same system that powers TFL even if the interface is a bit different.

devnull

AngryLips wrote: »

Transport for Ireland have a really good network map and literally the only place you can find it is on their website. When are they going to take over the information displays of all the public transport providers?

The transport companies would quite like to hold on to their own branding for commercial reasons (ironic for a so called public company) Unfortunately having a proper integrated system is not top of their agenda because they are worried that it could lead to revenue abstraction to other operators therefore they want to be fully in control of their own destiny rather than allow someone else to have the power to do what is in the public interest but not necessarily in their own interest.

The companies see Transport for Ireland as a threat to their control over transport in this country and could lead to a situation where power is transferred from local management to a regulator who dictates what happens rather than the situation at the moment where to a degree the companies have that power in their hands due to their position. This is why Dublin Bus started making their own maps not long after the first TFI maps appeared, started pushing their own app after TFI started pushing theirs.

It's essentially CIE stating that we're not going anywhere and we're not going to give up control of transport in this country and we should be the ones at the forefront, not Transport for Ireland. It's why transport is so dysfunctional in this country, on the one hand setting up public operators to serve the customer first and foremost is an excellent idea to avoid vested/self interest, but the problem we have now is the companies self interest is generally coming before that of public transport in this country.

For example I heard a BE staff member in Limerick saying they will never "bow down" to Transport for Ireland literature because that literature includes private operaors and BE staff will not tolerate the 307/308 being included on a TFI map and therefore won't use it and if it is the company will simply produce their own map minus the private operators.

This is typical of the issues that exist, including the 307/308 on the map would be of benefit to public transport as a whole, however the operator we set up to have it's first priority of being as benefit to the public, refuses to use it because it's not in their own interests. It's a simple failure of public companies to do what they were set-up for, which was to avoid this kind of thing.

devnull

There are over FOURTY maps here
https://www.transportforireland.ie/journey-planner/maps/

JamesFlynn

That TFI Train and Tram map is excellent - when the luas works complete next year, it looks like Dublin will have a transport network rather than a disjointed set of lines - at least to my eyes I'd not realized that yet.

plodder

devnull wrote: »

There are over FOURTY maps here
https://www.transportforireland.ie/journey-planner/maps/

Some of those are a decent effort, but the Dublin Bus network is too complicated for that style of offline mass-transit map in my opinion. It really should be possible to build an online map showing the exact routes of all buses on google maps, and the location of all bus stops.

devnull

http://journeyplanner.transportforireland.ie/rm/XSLT_TRIP_REQUEST2?language=en

Does this, however it's a bit messy because of os many stops.