Skyr - any dairy farmers doing that in Ireland?

Chuchote

I see the Viking yogurt Skyr - no fat, high protein, low sugar - which is a craze with New York foodies, has migrated to Yorkshire. Any dairy farmers making it here?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/27/skyr-viking-superfood-waking-up-britain

kowtow

Skyr is one of a family of soft cheeses which are sold as yoghurt... the market has been booming since Greek yoghurt took off, they can be strained (as skyr is), set, made from skim or whole. Typically the traditional recipe is acid set but some use rennet.

Authentic skyr is supposed to be started from a mother culture of the previous days batch which of course is part of the allure, passed on from generation to generation, also likely to contain a much greater diversity of live bacteria which will make the terror apparent and produce a very deep and complex flavour reflecting the raw milk of the farm.

It's great that there is a resurgence in these soft cheeses but the reality is they were made in almost every farm in every country. They are the original "cottage cheese" with the milk from only a cow or two being sufficient and not much more than a cheese cloth needed to make them.

Every country had its own... many still do (ricotta, quark, styr, fromage blanc..) what I'd really like to unearth is the Irish one. It was always there alright, the clue is in the old irish expression "curds for the boy, milk for the girl" . It just wasn't important enough to write down.

And because it was "poor man's food" we were quick enough to throw it away at the first chance of a shiny packaged import.

pedigree 6

kowtow wrote: »

Skyr is one of a family of soft cheeses which are sold as yoghurt... the market has been booming since Greek yoghurt took off, they can be strained (as skyr is), set, made from skim or whole. Typically the traditional recipe is acid set but some use rennet.

Authentic skyr is supposed to be started from a mother culture of the previous days batch which of course is part of the allure, passed on from generation to generation, also likely to contain a much greater diversity of live bacteria which will make the terror apparent and produce a very deep and complex flavour reflecting the raw milk of the farm.

It's great that there is a resurgence in these soft cheeses but the reality is they were made in almost every farm in every country. They are the original "cottage cheese" with the milk from only a cow or two being sufficient and not much more than a cheese cloth needed to make them.

Every country had its own... many still do (ricotta, quark, styr, fromage blanc..) what I'd really like to unearth is the Irish one. It was always there alright, the clue is in the old irish expression "curds for the boy, milk for the girl" . It just wasn't important enough to write down.

And because it was "poor man's food" we were quick enough to throw it away at the first chance of a shiny packaged import.

I think the problem of finding such a recipe here is that this country was the larder for Britain. If it couldn't be exported and hadn't a shelf life it wasn't made. I'm not saying that no one in the country made it for themselves but if it was dairy in this country it was churn the milk, make butter, add salt, ship it over to Bristol or Liverpool and get your few quid and pay the landlord the rent.

Whereas in Iceland it was for feeding the farm residents themselves or local population. More about survival in Iceland down the years anyway and being self sufficient as a country.

There wasn't a landlord system in Iceland as in Ireland. Basically they value food over money to pay the bills.

kowtow

pedigree 6 wrote: »

I think the problem of finding such a recipe here is that this country was the larder for Britain. If it couldn't be exported and hadn't a shelf life it wasn't made. I'm not saying that no one in the country made it for themselves but if it was dairy in this country it was churn the milk, make butter, add salt, ship it over to Bristol or Liverpool and get your few quid and pay the landlord the rent.

Whereas in Iceland it was for feeding the farm residents themselves or local population. More about survival in Iceland down the years anyway and being self sufficient as a country.

There wasn't a landlord system in Iceland as in Ireland. Basically they value food over money to pay the bills.

You are absolutely right but I think the era I am thinking of predates the larger herds and the bigger cheeses. The "industrialisation" of cheese begins with the tiny village creamery .. consider that a 50lb truckle of cheddar is going to take 250 litres of milk to make, that's a lot of cows (too many actually) for almost any single farm in those days so milk had to be co-mingled to be made into hard cheese which was exportable. I'm guessing but I reckon the Irish creamery / butter industry began to dominate in the early 19th century.

But notwithstanding the creameries, cottage (soft) cheese was made every time, from the farmhouse kitchen. It is simple to make and can mostly be left by the farm house wife to set on it's own. There was always too much spring milk and this way it could be "eaten", kept for at least a couple of days without refrigeration, and moved around locally among neighbours at least. In countries with more of a food tradition like France the soft cheeses evolved and became a fixed part of the culture because they were sold in local markets, in the UK and the USA, and Holland, for example, hard exportable cheese became the thing. In Ireland it was butter.

It's also perfectly possible that there is or was no recipe. In a sense soft cheese is soft cheese, a lot depends on the starter culture and the raw milk. The bacteria that make the starter culture are those already present in the air around and in the milk itself, in proportions which fingerprint the unique local flavour of the cheese, which is one reason why industrial soft cheeses can be very bland and uninteresting.

Would be interesting to know whether or what was added to acidify. It might have been buttermilk? Vinegar? There wouldn't have been much lemon juice around..

Chuchote

One difference between skyr and soft cheeses is that it has no fat.

I had viillii going for years at home - a Finnish yogurt which is kind of jelly-like. Didn't often eat it myself (it was wild fattening) but the hens loved it and thrived on it.

pedigree 6

We must have the greatest reputation of any country in the world for butter.
Sure isn't it turning up in the bogs, buried thousands of years ago.

There could be an old irish tradition or maybe some of the palatines maybe around limerick or different parts of the country where they were planted of making a similar cheese.

Water John

Butter export from Ireland goes back a long way. Certainly major in the late 1700's. You had a Butter Road from Kerry to Cork City also one from Bantry.
Cork Butter Exchange was very big in world terms. This may have killed off largely any cheese skills in this country.
The coops/creameries came in the 1880's.

The buttermilk/skim was eaten with the potatoes instead.

Chuchote

In the 16th and 17th centuries, English people writing about Ireland referred to the Irish practically living on 'white meates' (milk products) and 'the sowerer the better', so we obviously had plenty of sour yogurts then. But there were determined efforts to wipe out Irish foodstuffs and customs.

Genghis Cant

Chuchote wrote: »

I see the Viking yogurt Skyr - no fat, high protein, low sugar - which is a craze with New York foodies, has migrated to Yorkshire. Any dairy farmers making it here?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/27/skyr-viking-superfood-waking-up-britain

There's an Irish company Horgan foods or something like that below in Cork doing it. I saw it in some of the shops.

Chuchote

Genghis Cant wrote: »

There's an Irish company Horgan foods or something like that below in Cork doing it. I saw it in some of the shops.

On their website it's listed as 'Country: IS'. Does that mean it's not Irish?

http://www.horgans.com/trade/catalogue/?cat=1

Water John

Well, it must be Israel or Isis.

Chuchote

Seriously, though, I'm a bit hazy - website - horribly unnavigable and unclear, but maybe ok for a B2B - doesn't make it clear if this is Irish and being sold to Israel/Isis or vice versa.

Water John

Horgans distribute in Ireland. Is, that is Israel, is the country of origin. Maybe that should have been Iceland?

Chuchote

You're right, Iceland:

http://www.horgans.com/horgans-launch-icelandic-skyr-to-irish-retail-for-the-first-time

Funny we can't make it here… I seem to remember seeing a piece in the New York Times or somewhere a couple of years ago suggesting it was fiddly to get right.

dr.fuzzenstein

There simply isn't an Irish equivalent. Whenever I wanted to make a German cheesecake (very different) and needed Quark, the only options were fromage frais or tvarog (quark being as widespread as rocking horse poo). Cottage cheese is mostly salted, so useless for anything sweet.
And besides that there isn't really much of a soft cheese culture (like Boursin) here either. Its even a challenge trying to find sour cream here. One shop girlie once told me "uhm, we have some cream that's gone out of date, but why would you want cream that's gone sour?"
In Ireland you can have milk, cheddar, cream and butter, but anything beyond is already specialist territory. Its there alright, but you have to look in specialist or Eastern European shops, while anywhere on the continent it's available in every corner store. It might he slowly improving though, but I always view it as something non-native and sometimes something is available for 6 months and more of a fad that people get bored off before going back to what they know. There sadly isn't much of an exciting food culture here, people mistrust anything "foreign" or "exiting".

kowtow

Chuchote wrote:

But there were determined efforts to wipe out Irish foodstuffs and customs.

Judging by our recent efforts I'd say we've pretty much mastered it!

Water John

Any have Regina Sexton's book on food. May be she has some traces on our past cheese history.

Chuchote

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

There simply isn't an Irish equivalent. Whenever I wanted to make a German cheesecake (very different) and needed Quark, the only options were fromage frais or tvarog (quark being as widespread as rocking horse poo). Cottage cheese is mostly salted, so useless for anything sweet.
And besides that there isn't really much of a soft cheese culture (like Boursin) here either. Its even a challenge trying to find sour cream here. One shop girlie once told me "uhm, we have some cream that's gone out of date, but why would you want cream that's gone sour?"
In Ireland you can have milk, cheddar, cream and butter, but anything beyond is already specialist territory. Its there alright, but you have to look in specialist or Eastern European shops, while anywhere on the continent it's available in every corner store. It might he slowly improving though, but I always view it as something non-native and sometimes something is available for 6 months and more of a fad that people get bored off before going back to what they know. There sadly isn't much of an exciting food culture here, people mistrust anything "foreign" or "exiting".

Have you been in Lidl lately?

Green farmer

Chuchote wrote: »

Have you been in Lidl lately?

Buy it there for the kids. Says Its produced in Germany using EU milk on carton.

Chuchote

Green farmer wrote: »

Buy it there for the kids. Says Its produced in Germany using EU milk on carton.

Skyr in Lidl?

Green farmer

.

Green farmer

Chuchote wrote: »

Skyr in Lidl?

Yep

Lady Haywire

kowtow wrote: »

Skyr is one of a family of soft cheeses which are sold as yoghurt... the market has been booming since Greek yoghurt took off, they can be strained (as skyr is), set, made from skim or whole. Typically the traditional recipe is acid set but some use rennet.

Authentic skyr is supposed to be started from a mother culture of the previous days batch which of course is part of the allure, passed on from generation to generation, also likely to contain a much greater diversity of live bacteria which will make the terror apparent and produce a very deep and complex flavour reflecting the raw milk of the farm.

It's great that there is a resurgence in these soft cheeses but the reality is they were made in almost every farm in every country. They are the original "cottage cheese" with the milk from only a cow or two being sufficient and not much more than a cheese cloth needed to make them.

Every country had its own... many still do (ricotta, quark, styr, fromage blanc..) what I'd really like to unearth is the Irish one. It was always there alright, the clue is in the old irish expression "curds for the boy, milk for the girl" . It just wasn't important enough to write down.

And because it was "poor man's food" we were quick enough to throw it away at the first chance of a shiny packaged import.

Like this? The two recipes above this one are Curd Cheese & Traditional cream cheese. This one is the Cream cheese made with rennet. Sorry for bad photo, it's a big book to hold in one hand!

jfh

Chuchote wrote: »

Skyr in Lidl?

Can't say I've tried the real stuff, but would not be a fan of the lidl version. Contains aspartame too

Base price

@ kowtow, I have a cook book at home (Theodora Fitzgibbon -Country House Cooking 1958) and had a look in it for home made cheese.
I like the idea of the one using rushes - no shortage of them in Ireland. I wonder what it tastes like?

Chuchote

Base price wrote: »

@ kowtow, I have a cook book at home (Theodora Fitzgibbon -Country House Cooking 1958) and had a look in it for home made cheese.
I like the idea of the one using rushes - no shortage of them in Ireland. I wonder what it tastes like?

First time I've seen a recipe that included preparative carpentry!

kowtow

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Like this? The two recipes above this one are Curd Cheese & Traditional cream cheese. This one is the Cream cheese made with rennet. Sorry for bad photo, it's a big book to hold in one hand!

Yup, that's the kind of thing.

The nettles are interesting perhaps because they are - to my eye - in the wrong place. Certain nettles are a traditional alternative for rennet, they have similar enzymes which curdle the milk and separate the whey.

But their role here is different, a natural antibiotic of some kind to delay or restrict bacterial activity on the surface of the cheese and help form a uniform skin, or to modify the acidity and moisture from the outside?

Do you have the curd cheese one?

These recipes are great fun - I'll dig around myself as I think I do have some references to Irish cheeses at various stages.

kowtow

Base price wrote: »

@ kowtow, I have a cook book at home (Theodora Fitzgibbon -Country House Cooking 1958) and had a look in it for home made cheese.
I like the idea of the one using rushes - no shortage of them in Ireland. I wonder what it tastes like?

The rush one reminds me off the top of my head of Vacherin - which is wrapped in a strip of spruce to mature (again, natural anti-bacterial I would think) and ends up with a spruce carton top. Wonderful cheese, you can buy them in the wooden cartons here easily enough I would think.

In Switzerland we often used to use them as an instant fondue, great midweek supper.

Buy a vacherin, leave it in it's box (as long as the box is *only* wood no paper inside), throw a half a clove of garlic in the top of the cheese. Stick foil over the top where the lid used to be and shove it in a medium oven until melted inside.

Then dip boiled potatoes in with a fork and eat away, no plates required, add good truffle oil if you are feeling flush.

Better value and much better feeding than a takeaway.

In our village these smaller Mont D'Or type cheeses were made from the haymilk - the winter milk - at that time of the year the herd has come back down and isn't producing enough to make the big wheels of comte type cheese which are made up on the Alpage in the spring. Same cows, different season, different chemistry & two unique cheeses each perfectly at home in their place.

Chuchote

Spruce tips are very high in vitamin C. Jacques Cartier's 16th-century sailors exploring the shores of America were ill and dying from scurvy when Iroquois cured them with tea made of spruce tips; Cartier, typical of the whiteys, then kidnapped the upper classes of the Iroquois and sailed back to France with them as prisoners.

I assume it's only the sweetened versions of skyr that has aspartame in Lidl? I'm not at all a fan of sweetened yogurts myself, always prefer the natural sour stuff and horrify French family members by eating it without sugar.

Lady Haywire

kowtow wrote: »

Yup, that's the kind of thing.

The nettles are interesting perhaps because they are - to my eye - in the wrong place. Certain nettles are a traditional alternative for rennet, they have similar enzymes which curdle the milk and separate the whey.

But their role here is different, a natural antibiotic of some kind to delay or restrict bacterial activity on the surface of the cheese and help form a uniform skin, or to modify the acidity and moisture from the outside?

Do you have the curd cheese one?

These recipes are great fun - I'll dig around myself as I think I do have some references to Irish cheeses at various stages.

Here you go. Interesting that you mention the spruce bark in your second post, I love the Irish one- Humming Bark, my favourite cheese!

Chuchote

My parents used to make that curd cheese; it was kind of cottage cheese.

kowtow

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Here you go. Interesting that you mention the spruce bark in your second post, I love the Irish one- Humming Bark, my favourite cheese!

Wonderful - to accomplish the correct solids profile the Marquis of Waterford required only two cows in milk, "preferably a Jersey and a Friesan"

Today we need about 20 million quids worth of stainless steel, a homogeniser and a few hundred guys with clipboards and big salaries, the cheese is poorer and so are the farmers.

Water John

See Clona Milk in West Cork making Kefir for the European market.
Grass based, the USP.

dr.fuzzenstein

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

"
In Ireland you can have milk, cheddar, cream and butter, but anything beyond is already specialist territory. Its there alright, but you have to look in specialist or Eastern European shops, while anywhere on the continent it's available in every corner store.

Very true. However I dont believe these never existed. Although many of the population in the 19th century were surviving at subsistence level, there were many farmers on 20+ acres in decent houses with two or three servants who would be quite capable of making and appreciating cheeses.

On a related point, who would have thought that its almost impossible to buy a shoulder of lamb in Ireland? Its a great cut, way better than a (hind) leg in my opinion and available everywhere in Europe, but when I ask butchers in Ireland they either havent a clue or tell me that they won't cut the carcass that way....

Lady Haywire

Deleted User wrote: »

On a related point, who would have thought that its almost impossible to buy a shoulder of lamb in Ireland? Its a great cut, way better than a (hind) leg in my opinion and available everywhere in Europe, but when I ask butchers in Ireland they either havent a clue or tell me that they won't cut the carcass that way....

You'll find them easy enough in Dublin but it's just not the usual way a carcass is cut up here. If you build up a relationship with a butcher you'll get them to do it easy enough though.

marklazarcovic

skyr is made from skimmed milk i believe,you can get it in tesco, dunnes stock the flavoured ones which i hate,the original is fantastic..discovered it in asda a couple of months ago and been eating it a lot since. its practically religious in iceland

Chuchote

DrDonkey, there's a couple of words in Irish for different soured milk products. Can't think of either offhand! One was made by putting high-cream milk to sour gradually on a wide china soup plate on an indoor windowsill, I think shaded by a clean tea cloth. Blabhar?

Water John

Sorry off topic, but Rory O'Connell showed cooking shoulder of lamb on his programme on RTE1 this evening.

Chuchote

Water John wrote: »

Sorry off topic, but Rory O'Connell showed cooking shoulder of lamb on his programme on RTE1 this evening.

What was that dessert? I came back in from stirring the risotto and he was putting slivers of strawberry in it like a delicious axe-murderer's feast. It looked delicious, if gruesome