When is it enough is enough

thegodlife

Haven grown up with a sibling who I believe has un-diagnosed (ASD) he is independent, married but still with behavior and social interaction difficulties. I often wonder where is the line between overlooking his presumed ASD behavior and being no longer being able to tolerate it.

All my life my brother has acted odd and often confrontational from calling the Garda's because some children sat on the boundary wall of his home to sending legal letters to people over nothing.

For me the breaking point was loaning him a considerable amount of money which he failed to repay and even after a year and my suggestions for him to even give me 50-100 per month which never transpired. Obviously a sibling asking for the return of a loan should result in a concern or apology and some sort or effort to repay something with no response having consequences to the relationship, yet nothing was ever paid and a short while after I noticed he purchased a new car.

There has been hundreds of incidents of this unthoughtful behavior resulting in me cutting all ties with him. But now my OH is stating I am too hard on him because he obviously has issues.

Just wondering about you thoughts on when enough is enough and if things should be just over looked.

leggo

I know of a family who go through a similar situation. One of the brothers obviously has something wrong (Asperger's or somewhere on the autism spectrum) but it's gone pretty much undiagnosed, aside from going to a special needs school during the day he gets no treatment and the mother refuses to acknowledge it and doesn't want him 'treated differently'. You can see where she's coming from, like her heart is in the right place, but she's not helping him or anyone around them with the attitude. He's stolen from members of the family (as well as randomers in the area) countless times, has severe gambling problems, goes missing for days at a time, has occasional violent outbursts, and to know this guy you know he's not a bad guy, it's his untreated illness acting out.

Probably the best thing you can do is go to his OH about it and see how she feels. If you're experiencing these issues from a relative distance, there's a good chance she's up to her ears with it at home. If she feels the same, you can stage an intervention of sorts with other family members, let him know how this is affecting you all and insist he gets help. If she disagrees and is fine then there's not much you can do. Just know his illness and protect yourself from becoming affected by it, e.g. don't give him loans.

thegodlife

Thanks Leggo

Sometimes I start to doubt my sanity with him and start thinking its me. My mother also refused to acknowledged anything wrong but paid the price when she was dying in a hospice with him interfering with her medication and even taking it and disposing of it all because he felt she would not not be able to communicate with him if she was out of her mind on morphine. He was beside her bed 24/7 in the last few weeks and luckily I got a few minutes with her alone the day she passed. The hospice were troubled with his behavior and we had many meetings trying to placidity them encase they restricted his access.

He even had an outburst once with my wife when he call to see me and I was out, she was heavily pregnant at the time resulting in her forcing him out of our house.

Don't have any other relatives apart from some distant cousins living abroad and his wife is Asian with unusual english and I often think she puts up with his behavior and assumes its down to culture differences. I suppose for me it was a toxic relationship and I know there are always two in any confrontation but as I said enough is enough I cant deal with him anymore. But still feel responsible especially when OH is making me feel guilty.

twill

With ASD, to overlook someone's issues is the greatest disservice you can do. Because there is little innate ability to internalise societal norms, it needs to be verbalised to them. Ditto the act of taking into consideration the needs and feelings of other people. For yourself, you need to stop expecting thoughtfulness and tell him in detail what you want and expect, and agree on how and when it should be accomplished, don't suggest. He may be too spoiled and coddled at this point to want to co-operate, but letting someone know that X is acceptable and Y is not isn't being mean, it's giving information he needs to know. And you can't let him ride roughshod over you either just because he has "issues": I don't see why he shouldn't be treated like an adult who has to face the consequences of his behaviour, once he knows that it's wrong.

That said, with your update, I'm not sure to what extent you can effect any change if he won't go for an assessment, and it does sound as if his behaviour is intolerable from your perspective. I wouldn't immediately assume ASD either, it could be a range of things which only a professional can really decide. I would urge his wife to seek support for herself if she can't persuade him to get a diagnosis. She sounds as if she's in a vulnerable position.

thegodlife

twill wrote: »

With ASD, to overlook someone's issues is the greatest disservice you can do. Because there is little innate ability to internalise societal norms, it needs to be verbalised to them. Ditto the act of taking into consideration the needs and feelings of other people. For yourself, you need to stop expecting thoughtfulness and tell him in detail what you want and expect, and agree on how and when it should be accomplished, don't suggest. He may be too spoiled and coddled at this point to want to co-operate, but letting someone know that X is acceptable and Y is not isn't being mean, it's giving information he needs to know. And you can't let him ride roughshod over you either just because he has "issues": I don't see why he shouldn't be treated like an adult who has to face the consequences of his behaviour, once he knows that it's wrong.

That said, with your update, I'm not sure to what extent you can effect any change if he won't go for an assessment, and it does sound as if his behaviour is intolerable from your perspective. I wouldn't immediately assume ASD either, it could be a range of things which only a professional can really decide. I would urge his wife to seek support for herself if she can't persuade him to get a diagnosis. She sounds as if she's in a vulnerable position.

Think you have kinda hit the point his whole life he was spoiled and coddled and don't think he can change now and from his point of view why should he. His wife was also party to him borrowing this sum from me which was considerable and under the understanding it would be repaid within a few months and I know he is able as he was and possibility still is very wealthy. His wife has independent means and a home is Asia so dont think she is vulnerable at the moment.

Think the horse has bolted on this one as should have adopted the attitude years ago of letting him know that X is acceptable and Y is not. But again difficult with older sibling as when I was young he was so far ahead of me and ruled the roost as children.

thegodlife

thegodlife wrote: »

my OH is stating I am too hard on him because he obviously has issues.

thegodlife wrote: »

But still feel responsible especially when OH is making me feel guilty.

I think your wife is the problem here. She should respect your decision and support you. Your brother has made your life miserable for years and if you decide enough is enough, then that's it.

You should have a frank conversation with her on the subject, let her know how much pain her guilt trips are causing you, maybe even get her to read this thread.

I do understand that she probably thinks it's "for your own good" but it's really not her decision.

Airyfairy12

Ive a brother whose extremely difficult, id swear he has something undiagnosed as his behaviour is and has been since he was a child completely abnormal, like your brother he's been spoiled and coddled his whole life and still is. He's been so toxic towards me over the years it reached the point where I just had to stop talking to him and involving him in my life as it was really affecting me, setting boundaries or standing my ground with him just wasnt working. You need to do whats right for yourself and if that means keeping him out of your life then maybe its not a bad idea. As hard as it is he'll never be the brother you want him to be.
Youre not going to get your money back unless you bring him to court but would you want to go down that road?

thegodlife

Thank guys, btw my wife hates his guts and has reasons to but still likes to make me feel uncomfortable about it. Yea reckon the money is gone and could really do with it tbh but lesson learned.

LegacyUser

I would speak to your brother and his other half and tell them that you want the money back that he owes you. Why should you be out of pocket when he is driving a new car and you know he has money.
I would also say to him and her that unless he pays this back you will be getting a solicitor involved.

At this stage your brother needs to learn that what he does has consiquences. My feeling is that people have let him away with a lot over the years. I know people who have children and it is obvious at an early age they have some problems. Some parents don't want to deal with this so ignore it or let the child away with being unsocial, nasty ect.

My feeling is she could be having issues with him at home but she may not know about him owing you money. If she is having a hard time with him you can stage an intervention of sorts with other family members. He needs to be made aware that his behaviour is effecting his marriage and along how he gets on with family members and that he needs help.
I am sure he is not coping in work. He may be good at his job but not liked by his co workers. He might not notice when they are upset, need help or might want/expect his own way always.

hydro1

I feel your pain mate, but you gota do what what is right and it does sound like a toxic relationship so if you cant resolve it probable best to distance yourself. You can chose you friends but unfortunately not you family.