Replace boiler or not and heating controls

THE ALM

Hi,

As usual with these things, you start looking at one thing which leads to looking at upgrading the boiler :rolleyes:

Currently have a warmflow whitebird70/90 connected to two pumps, one for heating the other for the hot water tank, no valves or thermostats. This is controlled with a simple timed on/off flash timer. We had started looking at installing the likes of the Hive/Nest although this doesn't look feasible. The whole system is about 11 years old and we are looking to get a bit more control and efficiency by being able to heat the radiators and water separately.

It is a 1900sqft bungalow with 12 rads and would assume that the Grant Vortex 50/90 utility model would be the one to go for?

My queries are:-

It it worth replacing the boiler or would we be better just splitting the zones and adding valves and controllers etc. Are we going to see much of a change in terms of effeciency

What sort of cost, roughly, are we looking at in simply creating two zones with new controllers versus upgrading boiler and all.

Can someone recommend a good heating engineer in the midlands, we are about 15mins from Athlone. Can PM me this if you like.

Thanks for any help/advice.

Dtp1979

THE ALM wrote: »

Hi,

As usual with these things, you start looking at one thing which leads to looking at upgrading the boiler :rolleyes:

Currently have a warmflow whitebird70/90 connected to two pumps, one for heating the other for the hot water tank, no valves or thermostats. This is controlled with a simple timed on/off flash timer. We had started looking at installing the likes of the Hive/Nest although this doesn't look feasible. The whole system is about 11 years old and we are looking to get a bit more control and efficiency by being able to heat the radiators and water separately.

It is a 1900sqft bungalow with 12 rads and would assume that the Grant Vortex 50/90 utility model would be the one to go for?

My queries are:-

It it worth replacing the boiler or would we be better just splitting the zones and adding valves and controllers etc. Are we going to see much of a change in terms of effeciency

What sort of cost, roughly, are we looking at in simply creating two zones with new controllers versus upgrading boiler and all.

Can someone recommend a good heating engineer in the midlands, we are about 15mins from Athlone. Can PM me this if you like.

Thanks for any help/advice.

Ideally if you have the money the boiler and controls are the way to go. Yes to a grant vortex 50/90. Total price roughly 4,000.
Controls only roughly 1200
Boiler only roughly 2800(including powerflush)
You'd be entitled to seai grant if 750. 50 of that goes towards a Ber cert such is around 150

crock!

Boiler and controls would be great but if you had to chose then go with controls and see how it goes.

TPM

just one thing to consider, Insulation.
depending on the insulation currently in your house, upgrading it could give a far better saving for what you spend than upgrading the heating controls and/or boiler

THE ALM

Thanks for the advice everybody.

We have recently upgraded the insulation and have had walltite pumped into the cavity, very happy with the difference this has made and hence why we are looking at the heating side of things although the walltite did take a lot of our budget.

The controls and adding valves will have to be done anyway as it is a simple set up that we have, just trying to decide what extra gains we are getting by just doing the controls or saving to do the whole lot.

I see the controls making another difference as we can heat radiators or water and not have to waste energy doing both.

Irish Steve

At the risk of upsetting some of the people here, some of your decision will be economics based.

Are you intending to stay in the property long term, or will you be moving soon, as the cost of installing a new boiler is significant, and you may not see an acceptable return over a short term period, while a condensing boiler is indeed cheaper to run, but you need to see a reduction of more than 300 a year in your oil costs to come out with a positive return over a 10 year period.

You already have separate pumps for heating and hot water, so it's relatively simple to upgrade to having zone control, with separate zoning on the clock, and it may be also worth considering thermostatic radiator valves to allow more control over the temperatures in individual rooms.

A temperature sensor thermostat on the hot water storage cylinder will mean that the pump (and boiler) won't be operational unless there is a need for hot water to bring the tank up to temperature, which helps prevent the boiler cycling when not needed, and you will need to check the hot water storage cylinder to make sure it has a foam insulating cover, which is sprayed on, as the older tape attached covers fibreglass filled covers are not as good at keeping the heat in the cylinder.

THE ALM

I suppose Irish Steve that is the decision that we will have to weigh up.

Having spent a considerable amount on the insulation we will certainly be here for the next few years although, as there are only two of us on an acre plot, the house really is geared for a family, kids running around and too big for our needs although no mansion. Realistically, with the economic climate they way it is, we will be here for a while which is no bad thing either.

I would say that the most viable option is adding valves and splitting into two zones, adding the likes of Hive/Nest/Tado, adding a water tank thermostat and the trv's as and when required. The tank is spray insulated.

As we are not wired for thermostats etc we will be looking at wireless systems that can communicate with each other.

I would imagine doing this alone will give us greater control over everything and means we could control the radiators in the spare bedrooms which are only used when we have family or friends staying.

If anybody can recommend somebody then let me know.

Dtp1979

THE ALM wrote: »

I suppose Irish Steve that is the decision that we will have to weigh up.

Having spent a considerable amount on the insulation we will certainly be here for the next few years although, as there are only two of us on an acre plot, the house really is geared for a family, kids running around and too big for our needs although no mansion. Realistically, with the economic climate they way it is, we will be here for a while which is no bad thing either.

I would say that the most viable option is adding valves and splitting into two zones, adding the likes of Hive/Nest/Tado, adding a water tank thermostat and the trv's as and when required. The tank is spray insulated.

As we are not wired for thermostats etc we will be looking at wireless systems that can communicate with each other.

I would imagine doing this alone will give us greater control over everything and means we could control the radiators in the spare bedrooms which are only used when we have family or friends staying.

If anybody can recommend somebody then let me know.

What area are you based?

Walter2016

If its any help I replaced an oil boiler last year that was installed in 2004.

The efficiency of the new boiler is unbelievable (grant) - I went out to check the oil this evening assuming I'd need to top up and its still over half full, so just 1/4 tank used since mid September.

Granted its been relatively mild, but heat is on about 4-5 hours a day and copious amount of hot water.

In 2014 we went though almost 3 tanks of oil, I reckon this year it will be about half that.

2 zones + water, large rural house. Total cost was about 3500 net of grant. Probably 3 years to get cost back on oil saving but also house is much warmer.

Wearb

A 2004 boiler wouldn't be all that bad if it was running correctly. Max 15% (more like 10%) less efficient than new ones.

Just stating that lest someone thinks they can get a 50% increase in efficiency by changing a 12 year old boiler.

TPM

some times more savings can be made with heating controls than with the improvement in boiler efficency

THE ALM

Dtp1979 wrote: »

What area are you based?

In the midlands about 15mins outside Athlone in the Shannonbridge area.

THE ALM

I suppose like anybody looking at changing boilers etc the costs have to be weighed up against the benefits.

If changing we would likely see an increase in efficiency of 8-10% max and looking at the current amount of oil we use in a year this would equate to roughly €130/yr. If looking at changing the boiler alone it would take 21years to see the return by which stage there will undoubtly have been more efficient solutions on the market and we couldn't guarantee we would still be in the house. The price of oil is low at the moment and no doubt this will increase over time so the savings will increase.

Adding controls alone and splitting into two zones I would hope would save us a couple of % and would be the most logical choice in our case.

With the update in current heating controls and trv's etc it should be possible to heat where and when you want.

Wearb

A lot of the benifits that come with a new boiler comes from the power flushing of the system that should be done. That with controls cans be very benificial.

There is no reason that a power flush (if needed) inhibitor and controls can't be done with existing boiler.
If a power flush is necessary, it would be important to identify if it was caused by incorrect plumbing and to correct it, so that the sludge doesn't reoccur.

THE ALM

I assume the SEAI heating controls grant would be applicable in splitting zones and adding controls?

Wearb

I think so. Contact an seai registered plumber and check it out.