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PSNI Recruitment Process Discussion

  • 17-11-2016 9:19am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,640 Homer01


    This topic has come up on a number of threads.

    Is the process too long?
    Should there be a PCA retest?
    Should they still have push/pull as part of test?
    Do they communicate enough with their candidates?

    Let's discuss it all in a friendly open manner. Then we'll present our findings to George :D


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭✭✭ SneakyBeaky


    Haha, this will be interesting!
    I for one quite enjoyed the push pull compared to the 3 laps, also thought it had relevance to the job I.e. Struggling against something


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,640 Homer01


    I was watching the Garda fitness test last night (yes my life is that interesting)

    Whilst it looked tough it did look very fit for purpose; jumping over gates, ducking under beams, etc.

    https://youtu.be/uXo3roYoCUw


  • Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭ shanevendrell


    * dons tin hat *

    For me the PCA should be like every other stage - one go or you're out. Probably an unpopular opinion but if you think that from the time of applying in 1509 you had what roughly 8/9 months before anyone done a PCA, then to me that's more than enough time to have prepared physically.

    There's no second turns at any other stage so don't see why that should be any different.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,640 Homer01


    * dons tin hat *

    For me the PCA should be like every other stage - one go or you're out. Probably an unpopular opinion but if you think that from the time of applying in 1509 you had what roughly 8/9 months before anyone done a PCA, then to me that's more than enough time to have prepared physically.

    There's no second turns at any other stage so don't see why that should be any different.

    *dons devil's advocate hat*

    What about the candidate who scores highly in IST and AC and has potential to have a great career in the PSNI. For one reason or another they fail the PCA by one second. We talk about fairness a lot on here; is that fair?

    In the 1309 campaign only 67 females got a place out of 353 posts. If adding a small step such as retest or removing the push/pull helps the male:female ratio then that is a good thing.

    It's all about getting representation across our community.

    My question is why have the mainland forces offered retests for years but the PSNI have only just started, presumably under pressure from NIPB?

    Personally I feel the mainland fitness test is 'easier' than the PSNI one. At the very least it is easier to train for unless you have an obstacle course in your back garden.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 248 ✭✭ D4z


    Process is incredibly long, I feel my life has been on hold from July. I put off my holiday in October as I assumed I would have been in GV already and due to the lack of communication I was naive to think calls could be tomorrow. One of the benefits of this delay is I've had more time to work on my fitness and I would say I've the fittest I've ever been.

    I believe the push pull should be a part of the PCA. I can think of quite a few scenarios that would require push pull power. I remember at the PCA familiarisation I seen a woman score 12kg on the push pull and thought this shouldn't be acceptable.

    I would also agree with the guy above in that the PCA should be a one time deal and if you fail, you've failed. Or at least if you fail then you should go to the bottom of the merit list when/if you pass.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 201 ✭✭ Psni26


    I definitely think a retest should be allowed. For me I am physically fit and trained for months for PCA and felt physically ready for the test. However what restricted me and what Was out of my control was how nervous I was it came out of nowhere and put a lot of pressure on my breathing that I really struggled. I even had a dodgy cough for 2 weeks I'd pushed my body so hard. Thankfully I passed but it really through me off.

    I dont think a retest is taken lightly either, it can apply more pressure to a candidate and with the process alone with a variety of factors it could rule out even getting a chance to get to GV. It would be a completely different ball game if the psni recruitment came up more frequently but a once a year (if your lucky) campaign does apply extra pressure and stress for a job that some people desperately want.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,640 Homer01


    Just to throw a great big cat amongst the pigeons...

    Is a nine month extension to PCA expiry too long?

    Are they taking a big risk assuming Joe and Jane Bloggs will have the same fitness level in March 2017 as they did in June 2016?
    All that turkey, booze and mince pies will take their toll lol

    What about a different PCA extension test? Instead of the course and push/pull maybe just have the beep test.

    Without this turning into a PCA thread I also think the process is too long compared with other forces and see no reason for it. Additionally the complete lack of communication is very frustrating.

    I can't imagine life without this place and the good people that post information, views and theories :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 211 ✭✭ PCWannabe


    I can see where people are coming from who disagree with a retest but I definitely think nerves play a huge factor.
    I trained for over a year and failed. Retested 12 weeks later and passed. I definitely don't think my fitness drastically increased in the 12 weeks I think it was down to my nerves on the day.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 248 ✭✭ D4z


    PCWannabe wrote: »
    I can see where people are coming from who disagree with a retest but I definitely think nerves play a huge factor.
    I trained for over a year and failed. Retested 12 weeks later and passed. I definitely don't think my fitness drastically increased in the 12 weeks I think it was down to my nerves on the day.

    Nerves, colds/flus, bad days would play a massive factor is any of the stages in my opinion.

    I believe it is unfair that someone who fails the PCA merges back into their original AC merit score after they've passed. I don't understand why you get a second chance at the PCA but you don't any other stages.

    At the end of the day this is a rat race for a dream career. Imagine the budget stopped at the person above you in the list but 1 of those candidates had a repeat due to an initial failure?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,640 Homer01


    PCWannabe wrote: »
    I can see where people are coming from who disagree with a retest but I definitely think nerves play a huge factor.
    I trained for over a year and failed. Retested 12 weeks later and passed. I definitely don't think my fitness drastically increased in the 12 weeks I think it was down to my nerves on the day.

    Perfectly put!

    As someone who has been to the support sessions I think they should have offered them before the PCA to those who wanted it.

    Some people are going to pass the PCA all day long and others will struggle. Those support sessions would really help those who would struggle.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,640 Homer01


    D4z wrote: »
    Nerves, colds/flus, bad days would play a massive factor is any of the stages in my opinion.

    I believe it is unfair that someone who fails the PCA merges back into their original AC merit score after they've passed. I don't understand why you get a second chance at the PCA but you don't any other stages.

    At the end of the day this is a rat race for a dream career. Imagine the budget stopped at the person above you in the list but 1 of those candidates had a repeat due to an initial failure?

    I imagine they don't allow retests elsewhere as it would be a nightmare to arrange as well as costly as they were completed by Deloitte.

    I do think think the retest is a good idea and not just because I am availing of it. If the PCA is potentially keeping women out then something needs to change unless we want a male police force.
    Does a 'fitter' person make a better cop? I don't believe so. It helps and yes of course we all need a good level fitness but punishing those of us who needed a second chance doesn't seem fair.
    What if someone appeals vetting or medical (I think you did d4z); should they drop down the list? Not saying a successful appeal is a failure but you get the gist.

    If the CC is happy to give a second chance to 50 student officers caught cheating I'm sure he'll not mind me having another go around the course.

    I'm starting to regret this thread as it's going to create divisions and sides amongst and that's probably not healthy.
    I'll drop out of here for a bit as it's getting very tense and while discussion is good it's not worth falling out with people :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭✭✭ SneakyBeaky


    I agree with homer that women are underrepresented but my partner trained very hard to pass a few years back and is disappointed that the push pull is not acknowledged anymore.

    She regularly keeps me going that I didn't pass "the proper PCA" as her and her colleagues call it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭ swl33t


    What did everyone score in the push pull out of curiosity?


  • Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭ swl33t


    Delete


  • Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭✭✭ SneakyBeaky


    42kg for me


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 62 ✭✭✭ Delightscience


    PCWannabe wrote: »
    I can see where people are coming from who disagree with a retest but I definitely think nerves play a huge factor.
    I trained for over a year and failed. Retested 12 weeks later and passed. I definitely don't think my fitness drastically increased in the 12 weeks I think it was down to my nerves on the day.

    I completely agree. I failed the PCA by seconds because of penalties incurred through nerves. I passed two weeks later with almost 50 seconds to spare. I managed 29kg in the push pull on both occasions as well. Why shouldn't we get two attempts? Furthermore, I feel that once in the job, an annual fitness tests for all officers would eradicate this attitude of - they had a Mickey Mouse PCA and that's the only reason they're in the job. It's more important for officers to maintain their fitness levels while in the job than be ridiculed for failing at first attempt.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 248 ✭✭ D4z


    Homer01 wrote: »
    I imagine they don't allow retests elsewhere as it would be a nightmare to arrange as well as costly as they were completed by Deloitte.

    I do think think the retest is a good idea and not just because I am availing of it. If the PCA is potentially keeping women out then something needs to change unless we want a male police force.
    Does a 'fitter' person make a better cop? I don't believe so. It helps and yes of course we all need a good level fitness but punishing those of us who needed a second chance doesn't seem fair.
    What if someone appeals vetting or medical (I think you did d4z); should they drop down the list? Not saying a successful appeal is a failure but you get the gist.


    I'm starting to regret this thread as it's going to create divisions and sides amongst and that's probably not healthy.
    I'll drop out of here for a bit as it's getting very tense and while discussion is good it's not worth falling out with people :)

    In some aspect of the job I would say that a 'fitter' officer would be the better officer. A lot of the duties in the job are physical and fitness related?

    Appeals are completely different. With an appeal you're appealing to overturn the decision with new information that they didn't have at the time of the original decision or appealing the testing environment/procedures. Medical decisions are also based on their 'professional' opinion as they're not experts in the field.

    Debates like these are perfectly healthy as long as they don't become personal (as you have done above).


  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭✭ Tricop


    Reading about the IST, PCA, Push/Pull and whatever 'fitness' test which is tested is neither a reflection of who u are on the day.....or next 20 years! It's a judgement 'on the day', of your capacity and ability to cope in a given situation! Most on here will become unhealthy, fat, overweght, stressed, divorced, alcoholic and even suicidal....thats the reality...and im not even in the job! If it's what u r willing to take onboard as a career, like nurses, doctors, firemen, ambulance,....etc....deal with it you will sacrafice


  • Registered Users Posts: 45 ✭✭✭ coolhand50


    I agree with a retest if you fail. However, if you fail after passing (for instance it expires) then I'm sorry, no retest should be allowed. I'm not sure how this can be "policed" but surely we all are in agreement that when you get fit, as the role requires it, you got to STAY fit! *taking out injury/post pregnancy etc factors*


  • Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭✭✭ SneakyBeaky


    Have any of the 1405 intake ever had to repeat a PCA? (When theirs expired)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 45 ✭✭✭ coolhand50


    Not me. I was lucky enough to pass first time. Just for the record. I agree with whoever said about the nerves. And the dry air in that bloody hall! Mouth was so dry by the first corner. This is not an exaggeration. And really after 3 tough minutes I felt exhausted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭✭✭ SneakyBeaky


    coolhand50 wrote: »
    Not me. I was lucky enough to pass first time. Just for the record. I agree with whoever said about the nerves. And the dry air in that bloody hall! Mouth was so dry by the first corner. This is not an exaggeration. And really after 3 tough minutes I felt exhausted.

    So has your PCA not expired at any point in the wait?


  • Registered Users Posts: 45 ✭✭✭ coolhand50


    Well I only did my PCA in may and with the extension, fingers crossed it won't have to run out.


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