Another mobile phone/driving/stationary question

Comhrá

Just watching lines of traffic stopped at the lights and every second young one with the head down looking at their phones while stationary, is it actually illegal to hold a phone while your vehicle is stopped, and if so, has anyone ever received a fine for same.

If I were a Garda, I'd probably let it go with a reminder to put the phone away but I'm just wondering if fines are dished out as readily for phone use while stationary at lights etc. as they are while actually driving?

Wossack

the offence is holding a phone while driving, so yea, can certainly be done

coylemj

Wossack wrote: »

the offence is holding a phone while driving, so yea, can certainly be done

But are you 'driving' the car while it's stationary at lights - potentially in neutral and with the handbrake on? What about if you pull over into a parking space, leave the engine running and check your e-mail?

what if the phone is in a mount on the dash?

Voodoomelon

If you are in a flow of traffic, stationary or otherwise you are certainly driving and can certainly be done for having a phone in your hand or lap.

pippip

I think once the keys are in the ignition its classed as driving...or you're in control of the vehicle.

NIMAN

It is shocking the number of people I see driving towards me these days with their heads straight ahead and their eyes looking down. Shocking.

Wossack

coylemj wrote: »

But are you 'driving' the car while it's stationary at lights - potentially in neutral and with the handbrake on? What about if you pull over into a parking space, leave the engine running and check your e-mail?

if yer not parked, yer driving - would be my opinion of it

Rubberchikken

i agrre ^^ if you're in traffic, engine running, then the vehicle is been driven imho. why is it so difficult for people to understand how dangerous a vehicle is in the best of circumstances. with the attention on the phone no one can possibly be paying full attention to the road.

biko

It is illegal in UK so I'd assume we have something similar in place.

http://www.rac.co.uk/press-centre/press-releases/motorists-muddled-over-mobile-phone-law

A shocking 61% of motorists still have not got the message that texting at the wheel of a stationary car with the engine on is against the law despite the fact it has been illegal since 2003 for drivers to use a hand-held mobile phone.

Moral of the story - don't chance it..

Homer

Don't get me started on people at traffic lights reading the phone in the lap... Lights go green and they don't move because they have their head in their lap :mad:
I'm getting a car horn installed and mounted up at every set of lights that gives a little toot when the lights change to wake people up!!

Special Circumstances

Rubberchikken wrote: »

i agrre ^^ if you're in traffic, engine running, then the vehicle is been driven imho. why is it so difficult for people to understand how dangerous a vehicle is in the best of circumstances. with the attention on the phone no one can possibly be paying full attention to the road.

I was driving along on the motorway and this guy kept shouting in my window "1.90 please, 1.90 PLEASE!! I know you can hear me, you're causing and obstruction".

But I was like, here I am, handbrake up driving along as you do, it would be utter madness to go rooting around in my pockets to conduct a financial transaction while driving on the motorway! Madness!

Special Circumstances

Homer wrote: »

I'm getting a car horn installed and mounted up at every set of lights that gives a little toot when the lights change to wake people up!!

big syke

Special Circumstances wrote: »

I was driving along on the motorway and this guy kept shouting in my window "1.90 please, 1.90 PLEASE!! I know you can hear me, you're causing and obstruction".

Was he in a car too or just really fast?

km991148

I was at lights and the police (on foot, in UK) were crossing in front of me. I was going through a bunch of receipts or lotto tickets or something, but to outside the car I had my head down not looking ahead.

They asked me if I was on my phone (Which was in my coat on the back seat) - once I held up the bunch of receipts they let me go - otherwise I t would have been a fine.

Apparently being distracted by bits of paper is fine!

(I am sure if i hadn't been able to show my phone wasn't in reach I would have copped a FPN)

Special Circumstances

big syke wrote: »

Was he in a car too or just really fast?

He wasn't in a vehicle, but he was driving at the same speed as I was with handbrake up in neutral.

These car washes that wash your car while you drive along are just as dangerous.

Don't get me started on accepting food at a drivethrough, driving along with your handbrake up in neutral. A fatal accident waiting to happen!

Pataman

Special Circumstances wrote: »

He wasn't in a vehicle, but he was driving at the same speed as I was with handbrake up in neutral.

These car washes that wash your car while you drive along are just as dangerous.

Don't get me started on accepting food at a drivethrough, driving along with your handbrake up in neutral. A fatal accident waiting to happen!

My brain hurts trying to understand your statements

Special Circumstances

Pataman wrote: »

My brain hurts trying to understand your statements

Is it the "driving along, handbrake up, gearbox in neutral" bit? I'm just going on other people's definition of driving.

Or my description of stationary objects appearing to move at the same speed as somebody driving along, handbrake up, gearbox in neutral? Well, they do - special relativity yo!

Or my suggestion that driving at this speed makes it VERY DANGEROUS and probably ILLEGAL to do things that would be OK if you were "galilean" stationary (aka ... ammm. .."stationary") rather than "boardsian" stationary (aka driving along handbrake up, car in neutral)? Again, this is just standing on the shoulders of giants, taking the theories of other poster's another step along.

I'm happy to admit that the basic theories here, the heavy spacetime calculations, are the work of other posters.

J.pilkington

tippman1 wrote: »

If I were a Garda, I'd probably let it go with a reminder

I wouldn't, I'd guess that mobile phones contribute to traffic congestion. Plenty of green lights missed because motorists are looking at their phones and not anticipating that traffic in front are wmeither moving or about to move

Wossack

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Is it the "driving along, handbrake up, gearbox in neutral" bit? I'm just going on other people's definition of driving.

Or my description of stationary objects appearing to move at the same speed as somebody driving along, handbrake up, gearbox in neutral? Well, they do - special relativity yo!

Or my suggestion that driving at this speed makes it VERY DANGEROUS and probably ILLEGAL to do things that would be OK if you were "galilean" stationary (aka ... ammm. .."stationary") rather than "boardsian" stationary (aka driving along handbrake up, car in neutral)? Again, this is just standing on the shoulders of giants, taking the theories of other poster's another step along.

I'm happy to admit that the basic theories here, the heavy spacetime calculations, are the work of other posters.

has this pedantic bollocksology worked in a court room, or are we in the realms of Bobby Sludds here?

Special Circumstances

Wossack wrote: »

has this pedantic bollocksology worked in a court room, or are we in the realms of Bobby Sludds here?

Are you implying that "stationary with hand brake up, car out of gear" IS or ISN'T the same as actually driving along?

Could be interpreted either way!

Wossack

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Are you implying that "stationary with hand brake up, car out of gear" IS or ISN'T the same as actually driving along?

Could be interpreted either way!

I agree, its pretty vague alright - and I reckon why the legislation for drink driving is so peculiarly written ("An offence of driving or attempting to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place") - that 'attempting' bit probably catches all the nuances

There must be a legal definition of 'driving' though - its used throughout the statute book

Special Circumstances

Wossack wrote: »

I agree, its pretty vague alright - and I reckon why the legislation for drink driving is so peculiarly written ("An offence of driving or attempting to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place") - that 'attempting' bit probably catches all the nuances

There must be a legal definition of 'driving' though - its used throughout the statute book

Apparently (caution, no legal expertise, no idea if this was updated or altered since):

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1961/act/24/section/3/enacted/en/html

“driving” includes managing and controlling and, in relation to a bicycle or tricycle, riding, and “driver” and other cognate words shall be construed accordingly;

So, going by this, taking your hands off the wheel to get change for a toll, or grabbing a eurosaver munch at mcdonalds is the very same if you are "driving" at 0kph (handbrake up, car in neutral) or driving at 100kph.

I'll be honest - I'd much rather people used stationary time to bang out a quick whatsapp or read one, rather interacting with a phone while in motion.
But where are people more likely to be caught - 8 cars back at a traffic light as a Garda walks by, or on the N20 at rush hour.

Also - I'm sure the RSA will tell us that God kills a kitten every time you do check your whatsapp while driving along with your handbrake up and the car out of gear. Because they would, wouldn't they.

Kimbot

Once the key is in the ignition and switched to anything bar off then you are considered as using the vehicle regardless of if it is stationary or not so yes you can be done for looking at your phone.

Special Circumstances

They see me trollin

http://c8.alamy.com/comp/AAM7HK/1970-1970s-man-businessman-salesman-sitting-drivers-seat-car-door-AAM7HK.jpg

_Kaiser_

jonnycivic wrote: »

Once the key is in the ignition and switched to anything bar off then you are considered as using the vehicle regardless of if it is stationary or not so yes you can be done for looking at your phone.

As with most laws in this country it's deliberately vague so can mean anything and interpreted differently by individual Gardai and Judges

Hence the "it depends who you get" phenomenon.

Me I regularly have the engine running while parked up and waiting for someone if it's only for a few minutes - especially in the colder weather - and may use the time to catch up on email or send a text, but sure if that makes me a maniac then so be it.

As always in this country, it's more about being seen to do something than actually deal with the real issues.

Special Circumstances

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

As always in this country, it's more about being seen to do something than actually deal with the real issues.

I wouldn't put it past them to have another bash at the law here and not only ban GPS use* but end up with some bodged "catch all" that would actually make it illegal to physically pay a toll or buy drive through, or get your car washed by one of those brush washes.

*Is phone based GPS illegal as is?

ofcork

I had a woman behind me in a queue of traffic and everytime I moved it took her a few seconds as the head was down at the phone.

Special Circumstances

ofcork wrote: »

I had a woman behind me in a queue of traffic and everytime I moved it took her a few seconds as the head was down at the phone.

I only move when it's worth the effort. These f**kers that shuffle 3 feet .... 2 feet... 3 feet... stop for 30 secs and repeat. :mad: