Help with VRT

lampard696

Hi, so recently I acquired a scooter which was imported from England to Ireland and sold to a private cars dealer from whom I bought it. I only received the V5C with it and no other documents, I didn't realise that I need an invoice for the vrt and now I have no way of getting it as the guy is not answering his phone. I also don't have any proof of when the car was brought into the country.
Has anyone done a vrt recently? If so what documents did you have to present?
Can I still go through with the vrt without an invoice and proof when it entered the country?

I'm sorry but this vrt thing is really confusing to me as I've never done it before. *headache*
Thanks for the help.

Kawalski

I would never suggest that you fabricate an invoice from a private sale yourself. 👼

SmartinMartin

The nct will accept a handwritten bill of sale that shows you bought it within the last 14 days from some lad in the north with an obscure address. Not that I'd condone that sort of thing.

SeamusG97

Nor would I dream of actually borrowing a pen and paper from the bloke at the desk in NCT centre to do so....:D:D

lampard696

SmartinMartin wrote: »

The nct will accept a handwritten bill of sale that shows you bought it within the last 14 days from some lad in the north with an obscure address. Not that I'd condone that sort of thing.

So I'm guessing they don't really care about the invoice? As long as you have something with you? Same for the VRTVPD2?
And I'm smelling some sarcasm from @Seams
Thanks for the help guys.

SeamusG97

That's about it in my experience - I've done a few over the years.

Didn't mean to sound sarcastic - the one where I borrowed the pen had zero VRT so it didn't matter anyway.

Bohrio

lampard696 wrote: »

Hi, so recently I acquired a scooter which was imported from England to Ireland and sold to a private cars dealer from whom I bought it. I only received the V5C with it and no other documents, I didn't realise that I need an invoice for the vrt and now I have no way of getting it as the guy is not answering his phone. I also don't have any proof of when the car was brought into the country.
Has anyone done a vrt recently? If so what documents did you have to present?
Can I still go through with the vrt without an invoice and proof when it entered the country?

I'm sorry but this vrt thing is really confusing to me as I've never done it before. *headache*
Thanks for the help.

Hi

Was the car dealer in the Republic?

I find it odd that he wont answer your calls considering he is a dealer, same as he wouldnt/shouldnt have any issues giving you a receipt for your vehicle sale. And you will think that buying it from a dealer would give you a bit of reassurance. If I were you I would just call over and demand a receipt.

However, I had a similar issues many years ago, my bike was bought from a cowboy (private) in Navan, shortly after acquiring it I had an accident so the bike was off the road for a long while, when I got back on it and decided to register it in Ireland I realized I needed a proof of purchase/sales receipt, didnt have one and the person I bought it from was nowhere to be seen, so I contacted the revenue and they literally told me to create one myself, sign it (without the original owners/sellers signature) with the approx date of purchase. I had no issues passing the VRT after that.

I would suggest contacting the revenue first, kind of anonymously and explain them your situation, add seek advice.

The vehicle was technically never imported to Ireland, it was just brought over from the UK. They could get picky at the VRT desk, although normally they are quite laid back just bear this in mind.

I just got my bike registered in Ireland (also ex-UK) and had everything done within 5 days of bringing it to Ireland but I was ready for it (including some good advice from people in this forum).

What year is the scooter? how many miles does it have on it?

lampard696

Bohrio wrote: »

Hi

Was the car dealer in the Republic?

I find it odd that he wont answer your calls considering he is a dealer, same as he wouldnt/shouldnt have any issues giving you a receipt for your vehicle sale. And you will think that buying it from a dealer would give you a bit of reassurance. If I were you I would just call over and demand a receipt.

However, I had a similar issues many years ago, my bike was bought from a cowboy (private) in Navan, shortly after acquiring it I had an accident so the bike was off the road for a long while, when I got back on it and decided to register it in Ireland I realized I needed a proof of purchase/sales receipt, didnt have one and the person I bought it from was nowhere to be seen, so I contacted the revenue and they literally told me to create one myself, sign it (without the original owners/sellers signature) with the approx date of purchase. I had no issues passing the VRT after that.

I would suggest contacting the revenue first, kind of anonymously and explain them your situation, add seek advice.

The vehicle was technically never imported to Ireland, it was just brought over from the UK. They could get picky at the VRT desk, although normally they are quite laid back just bear this in mind.

I just got my bike registered in Ireland (also ex-UK) and had everything done within 5 days of bringing it to Ireland but I was ready for it (including some good advice from people in this forum).

What year is the scooter? how many miles does it have on it?

That's the answer I was looking for, Thanks so much man.
It's November 2015 and it has 900 miles on it

Bohrio

lampard696 wrote: »

That's the answer I was looking for, Thanks so much man.
It's November 2015 and it has 900 miles on it

No problem, there is another thing you might want to check as I am not 100% sure if this applies to scooters, and it is regards to VAT (hence my question about milage). UK vehicles that come into Ireland that are either less than 6 months old or less than 6000 km are liable to VAT (again not sure about scooters), see below:

VAT Liability

When is VAT due on a vehicle?
VAT is due on a new vehicle brought into the State, (or in VAT terms, a new means of transport) which meets either one of the two criteria following:

It is supplied six months or less after the date of its first entry into service.
It has travelled 6,000 kilometres or less at the time of registration.
If the vehicle meets either of these criteria the vehicle is treated as a new means of transport for VAT purposes and VAT is chargeable at registration.

Note: In this context "entry into service" means registration in another jurisdiction. If not previously registered - the vehicle is considered new.

Examples

Vehicle 5 months old with 8,000km - chargeable to VAT
Vehicle 7 months old with 5,000km - chargeable to VAT
Vehicle 7 months old with 8,000km - not chargeable to VAT
I bought a car in the UK and paid VAT there. Now I am asked to pay VAT in Ireland. Why?
VAT is payable in the State on registration where a vehicle is less than 6 months old or has less than 6,000 kilometres on the clock at the time of registration. However, in these circumstances, any VAT paid in the UK may be refunded on application to the appropriate UK VAT authority.

SmartinMartin

As above, any vehicle with less than 6k on the clock is considered new by revenue and will be charged vrt AND vat.

micknail

SmartinMartin wrote: »

As above, any vehicle with less than 6k on the clock is considered new by revenue and will be charged vrt AND vat.

Ah flip!
So let's say vrt on a 600 2013 bike is 475.
what would vat come to?

Tigger

micknail wrote: »

Ah flip!
So let's say vrt on a 600 2013 bike is 475.
what would vat come to?

23% of omsp

tonytoc11

You need the full V5 document. ie. Both pages of it. If you only got one of the pages, you need to apply for a Permanent Certificate of Export.

lampard696

Do I need to have the vehicle registered in my name for the vrt?

Bohrio

lampard696 wrote: »

Do I need to have the vehicle registered in my name for the vrt?

No since what you are trying to do is resgister the vehicle in your name.

Remember dont go to the VRT unless you have everything they require otherwise you are chancing it, specially with VAT

tonytoc11

lampard696 wrote: »

Do I need to have the vehicle registered in my name for the vrt?

No, you vrt the bike 1st and they send out a logbook then. Then you need to tax it.

lampard696

And will I need my driver license/learner permit?

Bohrio

here you go

link

from the above

Vehicle Identity Documentation - please see New vehicle, Used vehicle or Vintage vehicle sections for specific information.
A VRT Vehicle Purchase Declaration Form must be completed in respect of each vehicle prior to arriving at the NCTS centre for registration- see details at VRT 'Vehicle Purchase Details' Form.
Invoice which must have the date of purchase/sale clearly indicated.
Documentation verifying the new registered owner’s name and address (Utility Bill, Bank Statement). The information leaflet "Owner Name and Address Declarations" provides additional information regarding owner's name and address details. Please note that a Television Licence is not acceptable as a Utility Bill.
Personal Public Service Number (PPSN) of the person in whose name the vehicle shall be registered. Documentary evidence of the PPSN will be required. This includes a P60 or any documentation issued by the Revenue Commissioners which include your PPS number, name and address. Where an authorised trader (TAN Holder) is registering a vehicle on behalf of a customer, they should give their Revenue Customer Number (i.e. VAT or CT number) in place of the PPSN of the person in whose name the vehicle is being registered.
Satisfactory evidence of the date of entry of a vehicle into the State is required. This can include shipping details, travel documents, SAD number or evidence of vehicle storage outside the State where the invoice is dated more than 30 days earlier than the date the vehicle is presented for registration. Where satisfactory evidence of the date the vehicle entered the State is not available, an additional charge may be raised by Revenue for the period from the invoice date to the date of registration.
Where an exemption from VRT is claimed, the exemption notification letter issued by Revenue.
Documentation (as approved by the Revenue Commissioners) confirming the level of CO2 emissions of the vehicle at the time of manufacture. Where evidence of the level of CO2 emissions of the vehicle at the time of manufacture is not available at registration - VRT will be charged at the highest rate applicable.
Documents 1 - 5 above are compulsory and the vehicle will not be registered unless they are all presented with the vehicle at registration.

If there is a delay in obtaining the correct documentation, this may result in the vehicle exceeding the 30 day requirement to have the vehicle registered once it has entered the State. Where a vehicle is in the State for more than 30 days without being registered, an additional VRT Charge will apply upon registration as outlined in Section 132 (3A) of the Finance Act of 1992 (as amended).

lampard696

Bohrio wrote: »

Hi

Was the car dealer in the Republic?

I find it odd that he wont answer your calls considering he is a dealer, same as he wouldnt/shouldnt have any issues giving you a receipt for your vehicle sale. And you will think that buying it from a dealer would give you a bit of reassurance. If I were you I would just call over and demand a receipt.

However, I had a similar issues many years ago, my bike was bought from a cowboy (private) in Navan, shortly after acquiring it I had an accident so the bike was off the road for a long while, when I got back on it and decided to register it in Ireland I realized I needed a proof of purchase/sales receipt, didnt have one and the person I bought it from was nowhere to be seen, so I contacted the revenue and they literally told me to create one myself, sign it (without the original owners/sellers signature) with the approx date of purchase. I had no issues passing the VRT after that.

I would suggest contacting the revenue first, kind of anonymously and explain them your situation, add seek advice.

The vehicle was technically never imported to Ireland, it was just brought over from the UK. They could get picky at the VRT desk, although normally they are quite laid back just bear this in mind.

I just got my bike registered in Ireland (also ex-UK) and had everything done within 5 days of bringing it to Ireland but I was ready for it (including some good advice from people in this forum).

What year is the scooter? how many miles does it have on it?

So I just called revenue and I explained the situation but the fella just said that I have to get the invoice and that's it or it will not be registered.....what a douche.

Bohrio

lampard696 wrote: »

So I just called revenue and I explained the situation but the fella just said that I have to get the invoice and that's it or it will not be registered.....what a douche.

That's fine, I would just say, they dont check the invoice against anything... also, go back to the dealer and ask for one, it will take him 1 minute to do it.

I would honestly be more worried about paying TAX than getting the invoice. You need to put miles on that bike before you even consider going to the VRT

lampard696

Just one last question. When exactly do I have to pay them? Is it on the day of the vrt or do I have some time to pay them?

colm_c

If it's just VRT on the bike, then you usually pay there and then as you should know what the price is based on the VRT calculator.

If it's VAT as well, it's VAT on a brand new value so they take a few days to get it, then you have a few days to decide if you want to go ahead or not.

Personally, unless it's an absolute bargain or a very rare machine, 23% of the 'new' value of any bike is a large chunk of change and is absolutely not worth paying.

It would be cheaper and less hassle to find the same bike here, already registered.

lampard696

colm_c wrote: »

If it's just VRT on the bike, then you usually pay there and then as you should know what the price is based on the VRT calculator.

If it's VAT as well, it's VAT on a brand new value so they take a few days to get it, then you have a few days to decide if you want to go ahead or not.

Personally, unless it's an absolute bargain or a very rare machine, 23% of the 'new' value of any bike is a large chunk of change and is absolutely not worth paying.

It would be cheaper and less hassle to find the same bike here, already registered.

Thanks, I came to a conclusion that I made a very ****ty deal and I learned my lesson, but that's life haha I'll be more careful and prepared next time. Big thanks to everyone for the answers.

SmartinMartin

There's lots of ads on adverts.ie for mileage adjustment. Not that I'd condone that sort of thing.

lampard696

SmartinMartin wrote: »

There's lots of ads on adverts.ie for mileage adjustment. Not that I'd condone that sort of thing.

Cheers, I'll definitely look into that

kokiyou

SmartinMartin wrote: »

The nct will accept a handwritten bill of sale that shows you bought it within the last 14 days from some lad in the north with an obscure address. Not that I'd condone that sort of thing.

Is this still something you should not do but might be accepted?

Sir Galahad

kokiyou wrote: »

Is this still something you should not do but might be accepted?

Yes. ;)