Death record

carolinej

Hi all, I've been trying to track down a death cert on Irish genealogy and findmypast but cannot find it. Is it possible there's missing tracts of records? The death would have been between 1919 - 1923 at the very latest. I've tried every variation of name but no success.

pinkypinky

There shouldn't be anything omitted at that stage. Can you verify it with a corresponding grave record?

If you want to give us the name and details, we can have a go.

carolinej

pinkypinky wrote: »

There shouldn't be anything omitted at that stage. Can you verify it with a corresponding grave record?

If you want to give us the name and details, we can have a go.

How would I find the grave record?

The record I can't firnd is for Norah/nora/hanorah Purcell nee Casey.
Husband is James Purcell. Her DOB is 1893. I have a death record in 1920 for one of their children in Wexford town, where they lived. She has to have died sometime between then and 1923, because her husband married my great grandmother in 1923.

My Great grandfather worked on the railways in Wexford town in the period of 1918 upto his death in 1929 and when he re-married in Kilkenny in 1923, they went back to Wexford, where my Granny was born, so I'm thinking his 1st wife probably died in Wexford.
Unless she got sick and went to her own hometown of Dungarvan, Co Waterford. I vaguely remember a relation said when he remarried in 1923 one of the children was still alive but died after. I must see can I find that death record. Forgot about that.

pinkypinky

Well, you'd have to know where she died, but I see that's part of the problem.

Irishgenealogy shows 6 Nora (plus variant names) Purcells between 1918-1923 and all look too old to be this person.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-perform-search.jsp?namefm=nora&namel=purcell&location=&yyfrom=1918&yyto=1923&type=D&submit=Search&sort=&pageSize=100&century=&decade=&exact=&ddBfrom=&ddMfrom=&ddDfrom=&ddPfrom=&mmBfrom=&mmMfrom=&mmDfrom=&mmPfrom=&yyBfrom=&yyMfrom=&yyDfrom=&yyPfrom=&ddBto=&ddMto=&ddDto=&ddPto=&mmBto=&mmMto=&mmDto=&mmPto=&yyBto=&yyMto=&yyDto=&yyPto=&locationB=&locationM=&locationD=&locationP=&keywordb=&keywordm=&keywordd=&keywordp=&event=&district=

FMP doesn't have any useful candidates either.

carolinej

pinkypinky wrote: »

Well, you'd have to know where she died, but I see that's part of the problem.

Irishgenealogy shows 6 Nora (plus variant names) Purcells between 1918-1923 and all look too old to be this person.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-perform-search.jsp?namefm=nora&namel=purcell&location=&yyfrom=1918&yyto=1923&type=D&submit=Search&sort=&pageSize=100&century=&decade=&exact=&ddBfrom=&ddMfrom=&ddDfrom=&ddPfrom=&mmBfrom=&mmMfrom=&mmDfrom=&mmPfrom=&yyBfrom=&yyMfrom=&yyDfrom=&yyPfrom=&ddBto=&ddMto=&ddDto=&ddPto=&mmBto=&mmMto=&mmDto=&mmPto=&yyBto=&yyMto=&yyDto=&yyPto=&locationB=&locationM=&locationD=&locationP=&keywordb=&keywordm=&keywordd=&keywordp=&event=&district=

FMP doesn't have any useful candidates either.

Yep. Bit of a mystery. The joys of family genealogy.

mickmackey1

Considering how turbulent were the years 1920-23 it wouldn't surprise me if some records have gone missing.

Gloraghgirl

Hi I had a quick look.was it mary carroll he remarried in 1923 in kilkenny? also i have had the same problem where a death cert cant be found even though i have their full name and know exactly when and where they died,i was told it was the coroners fault?

KildareFan

Seems a mystery - I see Norah was born in Comeragh which is townland in Kilrossanty up the mountains beyond Dungarvan. Norah's father Maurice died in Dungarvan on 30th Dec 1914, aged 76. In 1901 they were living in Gallows Hill, Dungarvan, in 1911 at 1 Fairlane. Maurice was a retired farmer.

I've checked the database of burials in St Mary's Cemetery Dungarvan, but haven't found him there but he could be buried in his homeplace. It's likely Norah was buried with her family - there is a graveyard in Kilrossanty which I visited some time ago. There were Casey graves there & Maurice might be buried there.

carolinej

Gloraghgirl wrote: »

Hi I had a quick look.was it mary carroll he remarried in 1923 in kilkenny? also i have had the same problem where a death cert cant be found even though i have their full name and know exactly when and where they died,i was told it was the coroners fault?

hi, no he married Bridget Butler in 1923 in KK.

KildareFan wrote: »

Seems a mystery - I see Norah was born in Comeragh which is townland in Kilrossanty up the mountains beyond Dungarvan. Norah's father Maurice died in Dungarvan on 30th Dec 1914, aged 76. In 1901 they were living in Gallows Hill, Dungarvan, in 1911 at 1 Fairlane. Maurice was a retired farmer.

I've checked the database of burials in St Mary's Cemetery Dungarvan, but haven't found him there but he could be buried in his homeplace. It's likely Norah was buried with her family - there is a graveyard in Kilrossanty which I visited some time ago. There were Casey graves there & Maurice might be buried there.

hi Kildarefan, yep that's her. I found in the Dungarvan Observer the obitutiary for Maurice, he was buired in Kilrossanty. I was doing a search of all the family on the 1901/11 census to see did any marry etc, none did, either died young or emigrated. The sole living sister died tragically in 1940's,was crushed by a train in Dungarvan. I found the news story in Dungarvan Observer. Very sad to read. (Dungarvan Observer & Dungarvan Leader old newspapers are all free online on Waterford County Library site )

The nearest death record I can find for a Purcell, born circa 1893 is for a "Bridget" Purcell in Enniscorthy Workhouse/Asylum who died from "exhaustion from epilepsy" aged 32.

One of the baby death record for my Purcells said cause of death was epilepsy. But different christian names unfortunately so not her. plus she died in 1923, my g grandfather remarried in 1923 Only link is epilepsy.

nikonuser

On a similar topic to this thread, chasing down a Death Certificate, I had never been able to find a Cert for a Patrick Meroe. I knew the Date of Death in 1899, it was reported as an accident in the Ballsbridge Tram Depot in a paragraph in the Irish Times. I had his Burial Record from Glasnevin so why no Civil Certificate.

Reading this thread, I started in again and there it was. The name 'Meroe' and its 14, by now, variations reached 15 when I found him under the name 'Moore'. It certainly doesn't look like 'Meroe' but as
Carolinej, on 14/11 said:
"Bit of a mystery. The joys of family genealogy."

And the moral of the story...snippets from reading these threads keeps the searching going even when that solid wall is there.

KildareFan

Yes - I've been driven to using the * to try to find names - using Patrick M*r*e / deaths / 1899 gives one record for Dublin North - Patrick Moore & one for Dublin South - again Patrick Moore. Since the index is transcribed from often eccentric handwriting, it at first you don't succeed with the name, keep trying other variations....

nikonuser

KildareFan, I had never tried using the letter*, didn't know about it at all. I must try it for more of the Meroe gang.
The Patrick Moore, Dublin South is my lad, the address is correct.
And I thought having a rather uncommon name might make this easier, no such luck.
Thanks again for that. J

nikonuser

Would anyone venture a guess as to the Cause of Death on the attached Certificate, it's fairly jumbled. I do know it was an accident in the Ballbsridge Tram Company. But, what the Registrar has written is barely decipherable.
Patrick Meroe is Number 364.
Jimmie

shanew

nikonuser wrote: »

Would anyone venture a guess as to the Cause of Death on the attached Certificate, it's fairly jumbled. I do know it was an accident in the Ballbsridge Tram Company. But, what the Registrar has written is barely decipherable.
Patrick Meroe is Number 364.
Jimmie

wow - that's difficult... I see the word Electric and I think car, but not much else at the moment... . I wonder if a research cert might be clearer ?

shanew

starting to see a little more ...

.. consequent upon ... 24th February 1894 .. Electric .. car.. accidentally... Fracture [?].. ankle and thigh..

spurious

Shock consequent upon injuries received(?) at Ballsbridge on the 24th February 1899 when a type of ____ car or electric ______ car accidentally caught ____________ caused (?) a car ___ fractured ankle and thigh. ____________

It's really quite difficult to read.
I don't know what the condition is caused, but I know if you are trapped (squashed) for a long time, there can be a sudden release of toxins on your release that can kill you. Perhaps that was what happened him? Horrid accident.

nikonuser

Shanew, Here's the newspaper notice, Freeman's Journal, paragraph on the accident. Injuries in the Tram Depot all right but the actual certificate is very hard to read.
J

nikonuser

Horrid death is right, the Coroner's Court provides more details.
Any ideas what the following means at the end of the article?
'We recommend the relatives of the deceased to the consideration of the Tramway Company"
Is this a suggestion that some compensation be paid?
J

shanew

nikonuser wrote: »

Horrid death is right, the Coroner's Court provides more details.
Any ideas what the following means at the end of the article?
'We recommend the relatives of the deceased to the consideration of the Tramway Company"
Is this a suggestion that some compensation be paid?
J

I'd say so, as in consideration of payment

nikonuser

shanew, thanks for that. I thought it might be some form of payment all right. Maybe it would have helped his sister, the only one of the 3 left. Thomas, the eldest of the 3 died just a month earlier in the Workhouse. A bad start to 1899 for the family.
Thanks
Jimmie

pedroeibar1

A few minor changes/suggestions to the views above:
Shock consequent upon xxxx xxxxxx at Ballsbridge on the 24th February 1899 when a type of xx on electric tram car accidentally caught him and crushed (caused ?) a compound fracture of the leg and thigh. Certified.

The last word, ‘certified’ meant there was a Coroner's Certificate issued after the inquest was concluded.
I think there was a Ballsbridge & Pembroke Tram Company, I recall some such name when doing some research on an engineer who was involved it the switchover to electrification on that route and also on the one from Lucan ro Parkgate street.

Also agreed on the interpretation of ‘consideration’ – it was not unusual for firms to make a once-off payment to the dependents of a deceased worker. Notice of them can sometimes be seen in rather sanctimonious and self-congratulatory newspaper reports where ‘The Directors awarded the sum of £X & Y shillings to the family of ABC’ who died in an accident’. In some cases they also would make payments at Christmas. Guinness were (quietly) to the fore in this type of activity, hence the firm's great reputation as an employer.
Thomas Meroe’s death was Phthysis, a name widely used in that era for TB.

nikonuser

pedroeibar1
It is indeed hard to decipher the whole 'Cause of Death' section but with the Coroner's Report, attached previously and with all the suggestions given here I think poor Patrick died a painful death.

His sister, Elizabeth bought a grave in Glasnevin 1 month before for Thomas, the TB man without thinking that her last brother would be joining him shortly. The grave ended up with 8 people in it.

We had a bit of a ceremony & placed a plaque there last summer.

Certificates, notations & records only skim the surface of the tragedies that follow some families.

Thanks for your input.
Cheers
J