Teenagers

claregal1

First time posting on boards and apologies if this is in the wrong forum .

I am a single Mam with three children and have been for 11 years . When I split up with my ex , I made a conscious decision not to bring another man into my children's lives .
My eldest two have the same Dad and my youngest a different father . My eldest two are both in college and my youngest is in 5th at secondary . The eldest two - their Dad has always been in their lives , very prominent active parent - involved in all decision making etc etc , whilst my youngest once his father left - he wanted nothing to do with him .
I worked through this with my youngest and the eldest two , their father would sometimes take him for weekends when he was taking his own kids so that my youngest wouldn't feel left out when his siblings were gone for the weekend .
To cut a long story short , my youngest found his Dad on Facebook and messaged him . ( last known contact we had with him he was in London and then moved To Sydney about 9 years ago ) He is now living in London again and I flew over recently with my son so he could visit his father ( didn't want to but my son begged me ).
His father is now encouraging him to leave school and to come live with him and work on some building site and as my son is 17 , he is all for this - thinks it will be great etc etc.
He has totally lost interest in his studies - quoting well my Dad didn't do the leaving and he's grand .

I have tried begging pleading with both my son and how father to stop putting ideas in the child's head until after his leaving Cert to no avail.

I'm at my wits end at the moment and don't know what to do . I have always had a good relationship with my children as it was always only me and the kids .

My eldest two have tried talking to him but all he can see is London , his father and earning some money .
Any advice would be greatly appreciated .

KERSPLAT!

Hi OP. I've deleted all responses and moved this to Personal Issues, I hope you get sorted

leggo

While he's still under 18 (I know it's only a few months, but will it be enough to get him over the line doing his Leaving?) keep in mind that neither he nor the father have any legal rights to make a decision like this and you're the legal guardian. So you're the one who pulls the strings regardless of what they want.

However you don't want to go that way as you want him to be active and engaged for his Leaving to get good results. So how about bargaining with him that if he gets a certain amount of points (in line with his usual abilities in school) in the Leaving, then you'll give him your blessing to move over if that's what he wants. Ultimately, once he hits 18, you're powerless, so just maintaining this illusion of power could be enough to get what you want. Then, sadly, it's his life to make mistakes but you may have given him enough in a decent Leaving to fall back on if (or more likely when considering how the father sounds) this plan goes by the wayside.

Do you have any contact with the father yourself? Do you think you could get him to agree to an arrangement like this? I don't see why he wouldn't want his son to have a decent Leaving and have options at the very least. If you get that agreement then your son has no choice as then the father won't be pushing him, so I'd scratch and claw and fight for that.

Witchie

Like the above,I would put it as a case of keeping options open. Explain to your son that it will do no harm for him to get his leaving cert first and then go, but in the meantime, he can keep in touch with his dad and go visit him. Could you suggest that if he could wait until the summer and then go work with his dad for a few weeks or the whole summer then? There is a good chance he will realise it is tough work and might prefer to come home and study.

Or if he is hell bent on working, why not suggest that he try to get an apprenticeship as a carpenter, bricklayer, etc and then at least he has a trade.

Not every kid wants to finish school and go to college and that is ok, but as a mum who has just gotten her 2 boys through school and into college, I understand that you want the very best for him.

LegacyUser

I can imagine how you feel at the moment.
At 17 your son has his leaving in a few months time so no wonder this sounds a great idea. The reality is that long term this will be not good for your son.

At this stage I would contact his father and have a very honest conversation with him. I would tell him that you want your son to do the leaving and to be thinking of going to college as this will give him more options in his life long term. I would tell him you don't want him telling your son he can leave school and work with him on a building site in London. I would remind him since your son is under 18 you are the only one who can allow him to leave school and this is not happening.

The reality is he might think this is a great idea and that he can make up for not being in his sons life for the past 17 years by doing this. You need to explain to him that your son is doing no work now in school and won't listen to any advice your or your family have given to him about doing the leaving due to fact he thinks he can move to London.

I would tell him if you want our son to move to London I will agree to this once he does the leaving and gets the results he would be expecting to get.

Did you get money from this man when your son was growing up? If not I would say to him I must chat to a solicitor and see how I can get maintance from you to cover the past 17 years. Let him realise that unless he does what you want you can make life difficult for him.

I know a woman who was in a similar position to you over 20 years ago. She made her husband see that their son needed to do the leaving. He is now a grown man who has the leaving cert and is doing well in his life.

I know another woman who made her child go back to college during the boom. This lads freinds were all working on the buildings then. Her son had a bad car with no money and was studying. Meanwhile his freinds had nice cars, holidays ect. Because he went back to college he got a good job and is now doing well. Meanwhile his friends are unemployed or have had to abroad to get work. Her son told me recently - I was not happy going back to college but I am glad Mammy made me when I see the lads I am freindly with have nothing.

claregal1

Thanks for the replies .
I do realise that college isn't for everyone and if my son was any good with his hands , I would try and get him sorted with a trade and have him go straight into an apprenticeship next June if that was what he wanted but it isn't .
I know in my heart and soul that this is all only a passing fantasy with his father that there is nothing to stop him upping and disapppearing again .
Two of my brothers are living and working in Brisbane - both married and I spoke with one of them this morning about this . My eldest brother is going to try and speak some sense to my ex tomorrow morning and tell my son that he can go out and stay with him come next June for the Summer once the LC is over and see how it goes but he has to attempt college in Sept.
My ex never supported his son and still doesn't and to be honest I never chased him for money even now because he made his decision when he left and even though it was hard down through out the years ( getting a little bit easier now ) I actually don't want anything off him and I wouldn't lower myself to ask him now .
I really appreciate the time you took to reply to me and please God , my brothers will be able to talk some sense into both my son and his father .
Thanks again .

cbyrd

Like an above poster said going down the bargaining route will probably work best. You could then both start planning for him to spend the summer, after his leaving, or part of it with his dad.
The perception that his dad is amazing will be huge for him. Don't underestimate how big a feeling this is for your son. It will feel like rejection of you, for this vision of his dad that he has held in his mind forever.
Meeting his expectations with reality will be very difficult for you, I imagine you feel huge resentment towards his dad for waltzing in and taking over after your years of hard work.
My advice, after facing a similar (but not as difficult) situation was to seek counselling with my daughter when this happened. Impartial advice can work better for teens as coming from you will sound like you're telling him how to live his life and he may want to rebel against you.
Good luck. I'm on the other side now. Patience and holding my tongue were never my strong point, but paid off.

I have to add fair play to the dad of your other 2 children for including him, not an easy thing to do.

zoobizoo

You don't know any builders who could take him on for weekend work?

Couple of days on a site lugging buckets of cement in the depths of winter might put everything in perspective for him.

Or put him to work in the garden digging holes - worst job ever.

Rubberchikken

i can see that his dad must be such an attractive, almost adventerous, figure to your son at the moment. if you can delay things as long as possible the realisation of what's he wants to do might cool a bit.
if nothing works and once past 18 he decides he's going, keep all avenues of communication open. make sure he knows you're always there and will support him no matter what.
sometimes we need to make mistakes to realise what we actually have.

i realise it's no consolation and it has to be a very worrying time for you so i hope things work out for the best.

Airyfairy12

Can you bribe him? if he stays to finish his leaving cert and does well in it you'll give him a grand or a car or something?

jimmycrackcorm

claregal1 wrote:

I have tried begging pleading with both my son and how father to stop putting ideas in the child's head until after his leaving Cert to no avail.

How have you approached his father? Have you made the point that his son has plenty of time to spend with his father after the leaving cert is over?. That if he leaves earlier then his son is losing out on possibly every opportunity and choice. If he really cared about his son, he would make sure he completed his leaving and then you'd be happy for him to spend the time getting to know and work with his father. Otherwise if his son drops the LC and finds out that he can't hack the work, that he doesn't have much of a choice.

Edups

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Can you bribe him? if he stays to finish his leaving cert and does well in it you'll give him a grand or a car or something?

No wonder chaps today cut about like little animals if that's how discipline works. Bribe a child to finish education?? ****ing hell.

Airyfairy12

Edups wrote: »

No wonder chaps today cut about like little animals if that's how discipline works. Bribe a child to finish education?? ****ing hell.

What are you talking about chaps cutting about like little animals?? I dont even know what that means.
lots of people get bribed when doing their Junior and leavin cert, I remember my leaving peoples parents where buying them expensive phones, giving them hundreds of euro some where given cars if they did well, anyone I remember from school getting bribed got high marks in their leaving certs and went off to DCU,Trinity, Maynooth and they got their first choice, now 10 years later theyre all in successful jobs and doing great in life all because their parents invested in them and encouraged their education by any means possible. Allot of 17/18 year olds can't think 5 years ahead, thats nearly a lifetime to them so sometimes they dont grasp the importance of a good leaving cert. The main concern for any decent parent is that their child has that solid foundation to fall back on for life.

Edups

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

What are you talking about chaps cutting about like little animals?? I dont even know what that means.
lots of people get bribed when doing their Junior and leavin cert, I remember my leaving peoples parents where buying them expensive phones, giving them hundreds of euro some where given cars if they did well, anyone I remember from school getting bribed got high marks in their leaving certs and went off to DCU,Trinity, Maynooth and they got their first choice, now 10 years later theyre all in successful jobs and doing great in life all because their parents invested in them and encouraged their education by any means possible. Allot of 17/18 year olds can't think 5 years ahead, thats nearly a lifetime to them so sometimes they dont grasp the importance of a good leaving cert. The main concern for any decent parent is that their child has that solid foundation to fall back on for life.

You should not have to bargain with a child for them to cop on and do their exams. I don't know one person who was offered cars or money as incentive to do well. That is nonsense.

Airyfairy12

Edups wrote: »

You should not have to bargain with a child for them to cop on and do their exams. I don't know one person who was offered cars or money as incentive to do well. That is nonsense.

Doesnt matter if you dont know anyone that was given anything or if you think its nonsense, it happens and it works.

Edups

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Doesnt matter if you dont know anyone that was given anything or if you think its nonsense, it happens and it works.

And in college do you buy a house to get good grades? Get a grip. It's spoiling a child and it's the worst type of parenting.

Airyfairy12

Edups wrote: »

And in college do you buy a house to get good grades? Get a grip. It's spoiling a child and it's the worst type of parenting.

Its not spoiling a child, theyre not constantly getting adorned with fancy stuff their whole lives, its a one off as a reward for studying hard and doing well in their leaving cert and completing 13 years of school and anyway spoiled kids often do better in life as theyve higher self esteem, more confidence, go after what they want and generally achieve more as adults than kids that grow up in underprivileged homes or homes that lack support from parents.

the_syco

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Can you bribe him? if he stays to finish his leaving cert and does well in it you'll give him a grand or a car or something?

I'd second this. He wants money, and a financial incentive may help your kid see sense.

Edups; you may think it's spoiling the child, but if that's what it takes to keep the kid in school until he gets his LC, it's a cheap bribe. If he goes on the sites in the UK, lack of LC will mean that he won't be able to progress as easily.

Taltos

Mod note
Just a reminder this is not a discussion board. If you don't have constructive advice then please don't post, otherwise you run the risk of breaching our charter. Edups I'm looking specifically at you here.

twill

Agree that bargaining is your best bet. How about agreeing to defer it until after his Leaving, but only allowing it if he does well enough? He can decide after a few months or a year whether he wants to keep working for a while or come back and go to college. Getting some real world experience before university would be no harm for most people, I think.

claregal1

Hi everyone - just a quick update . I spoke with my son's vice principle and principle and voiced my concerns . I have always had a good relationship with the vice principle and he rang my son's father and to be honest I'm not 100% sure what exactly was said but he has changed his tune. I also got a guardianship document drawn up with a solictor which states that I am the sole guardian of my son until he turns 18 and any decision making will be entirely mine . A maintence order was also drawn up and sent to his father looking for maintence and money towards school fees etc and his father has backed down a bit now . My son is back going to study 2 night's a week and the principle is going out of his way with loads of positive feedback and praising him for the effort he is making.
Thanks again everyone - it's been a little easier this week with him and hopefully I can get him over the line till next June .

cbyrd

Great news, it's not easy at the best of times with teenagers.

claregal1

He did say though when we met with the vice principal that he felt that I was putting him under too much pressure to go to college like the other two so I have backed down in relation to college and we both agreed as long as he did his best with his LC that's all that matters .
He did promise me though that he would put in some applications with CAO in case he changes his mind come next August .

Big Bag of Chips

A friend of mine whose daughter has just started college made a very astute point... She said we'll have a country full of geologists and sociologists and no mechanics and plumbers!

And she's probably right. College isn't for everyone, but most of the focus is on going to college.. to fill in something on the CAO. Rather than pushing him towards college ask him to think about what he'd like. If he's interested in an apprenticeship maybe encourage him to get a Saturday job somewhere. It's difficult being the parent of teenagers, but it's also difficult being that teenager!!

The teachers in school will work with him to figure out what he'd like to do.

Fair play to you. You've handled it well.

Witchie

Just wanted to back up chips there and say that you have handled this really well and got him to think about his future after the leaving cert.

Again, like Chips said, not everyone wants to go to college. Do get him to look into the apprenticeship route as that may be where he is happiest.

Best of luck and again, well done.

leggo

Well done OP, great to see a potentially messy situation handled firmly and with a positive resolution.

I decided college wasn't for me too (during the Celtic Tiger when it was seen as a must and even the schools were pressuring all kids) but also made sure I got a good LC to give myself the option in case I changed my mind. As long as your son gets that then he can always go back and has the option down the line. Life would've been so much harder if he hadn't so great news that he's on board!

Ursus Horribilis

Well done you. A potential issue, and something I'm sure you're thinking about, is the lad's father disappearing again. Especially if bills for maintenance start coming through the letterbox. It's one thing to play at fathers and sons from a distance, quite another to come up to the plate.

Eimee90

Really impressive, Op, handled so maturely. Best of luck

dory

Just want to echo what's been said - you handled it very well.
I've a cousin who sounds very similar to your son. Felt under pressure due to older siblings in college. She did nothing for a year after the LC. Then she got a job in an opticians selling glasses and thought it was great for a few months. Is extremely bored now but is glad she at least has the LC behind her. Is thinking about college now at 22. Hopefully your son will find his way as well.