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Should I say something?

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  • 11-11-2016 4:27pm
    #1
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭


    I attend a weekly support group for sufferers of depression and anxiety. I have been going there for about five or six years and there is another person who attends who I have got to know pretty well. He has told me he is planning to become a facilitator for this support group. The next training session for this is in January. The trouble is I think this person is totally unsuitable to be a facilitator. He is extremely bigoted and sometimes downright racist. He has never expressed these views during the meetings but has frequently made remarks of this nature before and after the meeting as we chat among ourselves.
    Others in the group have been present while he has said these things but we haven't talked about him as I suppose it isn't a problem if he doesn't say anything offensive to someone in person. He is a nice enough guy in other respects, I am friendly enough with him but I would keep my distance because I really dislike racism and bigotry. Just this week before the meeting he was saying that he hated Muslims (another person was present when he said this). He has in the past referred to a well-know Northern Irish sports person as an "Orange b*****d".
    He can't help it in a way as he is not very well educated (he didn't go to secondary school and only recently learnt to read and write properly). I don't have a problem with him not being well-educated, there is no crime in that. I am just worried that if he becomes a facilitator and there is a person from a certain background there he may cause a problem. There is a possibility that he may become a facilitator at the meeting he and I are attending but even if it was somewhere else I would still have a concern. The facilitating is voluntary and I know there is a vetting process but it's unlikely he will admit to being a bigot/racist in a Q and A for example. I am wondering should I say something to the powers that be in an anonymous fashion or should I just stay out of it?


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    #2
    Hemerodrome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 160 ✭✭Hemerodrome


    I would be confident that the vetting and training will show his weaknesses as a potential facilitator, so you don't need to address it. It's also possible the training will help him to see how unacceptable his bigotry is and it's possible he may harbour those views privately but be a fine facilitator for the whole group.
    I think this will work itself out without you needing to take responsibility.


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    #3
    SB_Part2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭SB_Part2


    Hemerodrome wrote: »
    I would be confident that the vetting and training will show his weaknesses as a potential facilitator, so you don't need to address it. It's also possible the training will help him to see how unacceptable his bigotry is and it's possible he may harbour those views privately but be a fine facilitator for the whole group.
    I think this will work itself out without you needing to take responsibility.

    While I agree with this I'd be afraid that this person could fall through the cracks. A knew a guy who would the absolute worse person ever as a counsellor but low and behold, it seems like he's fallen through the cracks so I'd be inclined to say something if possible.


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    #4
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Hemerodrome wrote: »
    it's possible he may harbour those views privately but be a fine facilitator for the whole group.

    That's perfectly true and he may well turn out to be a very good facilitator and be able to put those views to one side during the meetings. See I don't even know if there is vetting in the training; it could be just training the person to be a facilitator but not include a part to see if this person is suitable to be a facilitator. Maybe I am being a bit OTT but it's just that in these meetings there can be people that have very serious issues and you need someone of really good character as a facilitator.The ones I have had at my meetings over the years have been superb (mostly).


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    #5
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    I don't understand why you think you can't call him out on it unless he says something to someone directly.

    Bigotry doesn't have to be directed at someone to be offensive. Next time he expresses a racist or bigoted view why don't you say "that's a very racist/bigoted thing to say and I'd rather you didn't express views like that in my company".

    I don't see how trying to prevent him get a job anonymously is going to address his racism but speaking up when he says racist things might.

    Just going on your example if he says he hates Muslims then you can say "it's very ignorant and islamophobic to express hatred of Muslims because you disagree with Islam. Why not hate the religion but accept that people born into a religion don't have many choices about being indoctrinated into it. Or if it is the actions of a few that you hate them hate those actions but not all Muslims. Because generalising your hate across billions of people, most of whom are very ordinary people, just shows you up".

    Or, if that's a bit wordy and you don't want to engage on it, simply say "please don't express bigotry in my company, I find it unacceptable" and walk away.

    I called a work colleague out on casually using the N word in conversation. He thought I was a bit off my rocker, but he stopped using that word. When I called him out on it he said "but there's no black people here to be offended" as though that made sense! I told him I was offended and his language was racist and unacceptable.


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    #6
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    intheclouds wrote: »
    I don't understand why you think you can't call him out on it unless he says something to someone directly.
    I suppose I didn't want to make waves. It wouldn't have any effect on him anyway, it would just roll off of him. He's so ignorant he doesn't even realise what he is saying is offensive.
    intheclouds wrote: »
    Bigotry doesn't have to be directed at someone to be offensive.
    I agree with that totally.
    If he became facilitator to the group we are both attending I wouldn't feel comfortable at all. I don't know if I would go anymore.


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    #7
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    jim50 wrote: »
    I suppose I didn't want to make waves. It wouldn't have any effect on him anyway, it would just roll off of him. He's so ignorant he doesn't even realise what he is saying is offensive.

    That's exactly why you should tell him. If he said something offensive and you said aloud it was offensive, other people would probably agree with you and he might actually twig that he was being offensive!


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    #8
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    jim50 wrote: »
    I suppose I didn't want to make waves. It wouldn't have any effect on him anyway, it would just roll off of him. He's so ignorant he doesn't even realise what he is saying is offensive.
    Then he is not fit to be a facilitator and if the screening does not see that it says more about the group than him.

    Many people in such groups do not treat people as they should and speak outside the group in a way they should not. And do not even seem aware it is wrong


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    #9
    LynnGrace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,347 ✭✭✭LynnGrace


    I agree about calling him on it when/ if he makes such a statement in your company. On a separate note, you mention that you would consider not attending were he to become a facilitator of your group. Is it usual practice that someone who was an attendee becomes a facilitator? There are probably others who feel the same as you do, in that respect.


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    #10
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    LynnGrace wrote: »
    I agree about calling him on it when/ if he makes such a statement in your company. On a separate note, you mention that you would consider not attending were he to become a facilitator of your group. Is it usual practice that someone who was an attendee becomes a facilitator? There are probably others who feel the same as you do, in that respect.

    I don't think it is allowed that someone who was an attendee at the group can then become a facilitator at that group. I think they have to go somewhere else. I will have to confirm that. I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable going to a meeting if he was a facilitator. Maybe some people at the group would feel the same but maybe they feel that if it's the case that when or if he qualifies as a facilitator he is not going to be doing it at their meeting so it's OK. That's a bit of a selfish viewpoint though. There was one other person present when he made the remark about Muslims and I don't think she was too impressed.
    I do think there should be a minimum education level that a facilitator should meet in order to become a facilitator though. Or else a reference from people at the meetings he or she has attended before that. However that is difficult as anonymity is an important part of this particular group's rules.


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    #11
    LynnGrace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,347 ✭✭✭LynnGrace


    Yes, I guess I was just thinking that it would be a shame if you and possibly others were put off going to the group were this person to become a facilitator.
    I am inclined to think as pp said that if there are good processes in place in relation to becoming a facilitator, he may well not make the grade. It's not a particularly easy task; those who make it look easy are the truly skilled ones.
    All the best with whatever you decide to do.


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    #12
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Turns out he is only going to be a "cover facilitator", not a full-time one. If the facilitator who is supposed to be on that night can't make it for some reason he will cover for him/her. A facilitator not turning up hasn't happened too many times in the past so hopefully he won't be called upon very often. I won't say anything so but if he was to start doing it full time I would have to say something.


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