Evohome Security

Uriel.

Afternoon Folks,

Firstly, I am delight that this forum got the nod in the end - can't believe it took three attempts - nonetheless well done those who pursued it and to the mods/admins who made it happen.

I've got various automation set ups etc. with various Sonos Players, Home Media Server, Nest Protect and Nest Thermostats, Wemo Plugs etc.

But the one thing I am now particularly interested is home security. We've only recently moved into our house and it has a pre-existing alarm - but it is an old one with no connectivity etc. Some of the sensors are dodgy and we need to something with it.

I also want to bring additional security such as cameras into the mix. Given that we'd already bought into the Nest system, we were thinking of Nest indoor and outdoor cameras, but we need a whole system overhaul.

That leads me to the Evohome Security Package, which seems very new (I couldn't find any reviews of same. It seems like a nice whole package that is modular and can be expanded as necessary over time. It also seems fairly DIY friendly and is almost completely wireless.

Just wondering if anyone has it or has seen it an action or know anything practical about it and whether it might be worth looking into further - or indeed alternatively if there are any similar or better systems doing the rounds?

cheers

Stoner

Hi this might be one for the home security Forum. Is you house wired for an alarm. It's far cheaper and better to use cabling if it's available.
I'm not familiar with that system but Honeywell work well with IFTTT.

The Siemens panel is very good for home automation.

Having had home automation on a security system it is my opinion that security panels are best left off integrated systems for a number of reasons

However there are advantages every unique zone on a panel can be used as triggers. The installer who put my alarm initially set things up for me. I had X10 sockets like your wemo one's I could trigger them on if the Alarm sounded.

I also had x10 on my heating . When I turned the alarm on full set it switched the heating off

It turned the heating off I had too many windows open .

Every pir can be used , so x10 lighting ccts could be switched on by those PIRs that's handy.

You can have cameras on the same app.

So it's a big plus the PIRs are dual use. But I still switched there were limits I added functionality by adding another x10 hub this gave me dimming.

I'd investigate if this could do similar over an IFTTT link, making the alarm turn on the wemo socket controlling a lamp is a handy trick.

Finally the keypads can be used to turn on and off things too.

Maybe something like this is the way to go. Certainly I wouldn't like IFTTT to be able to switch off the alarm .
But it's a nice app. One app for alarms and cameras is nice.

Stoner

I had look and there are IFTTT channels for evohome but they are for their heating products.

Out of interest i mailed them to see what the plans are to expand this.

Uriel.

Thanks for the detailed reply.

Yep house is wired for alarm. Currently in use and it is giving some problems - everyday when we get home the alarm is going off. I think the problems are with the sensors as opposed to the alarm itself but it is an old alarm.. Maybe 20 or more years.

Because of the problems, we don't put it on anymore, and because of this we were thinking of a complete overhaul. As we would like to also introduce self monitoring, camera capabilities and to alarm the shed which is not presently wired.

Perhaps though, as you suggest making use of the existing wiring would be the way to go and upgrade the system rather than buying into a whole new ecosystem such as the evohome.

Would you be able to post or pm the details of the installer you used, because that sounds like a great system... Hopefully it wouldn't break the bank...

Cheers

garbeth

Was wondering about this too. Have an existing alarm and it works but is not IOT enabled. Would like to replace the control panel which would then be connected to the internet but leave all the other items like the window contacts and the pir

Anyone know of any systems like this.

Stoner

Uriel. wrote:

Would you be able to post or pm the details of the installer you used, because that sounds like a great system... Hopefully it wouldn't break the bank...

Will so . They are all on the sticky in the security Forum

Stoner

garbeth wrote:

Anyone know of any systems like this.

Would you mind if I move this over to the home security Forum as the guys there will answer this better I'll leave a link to it here

garbeth

Yeah sure. Wasn't sure which to post it in

beanian

FYI, I asked this question on the Home Security forum and the answer I got is a Siemens SPC panel will work with most home automation systems. I can use all the sensors to trigger home automation rules, which is great as it saves me doubling up on sensors.
Works using a REST API, MQTT etc.
I'm getting mine installed from a boardsie (KoolKid) on Wednesday. I will report back with a full run down of my experience with it once I have it up and running.

Stoner

beanian wrote:

FYI, I asked this question on the Home Security forum and the answer I got is a Siemens SPC panel will work with most home automation systems. I can use all the sensors to trigger home automation rules, which is great as it saves me doubling up on sensors. Works using a REST API, MQTT etc. .

In my experience It won't work with most system to a decent level the guys who have it working are interfacing with mini computers etc.

I had this very system yes the PIR double up is great but I took the home auto off it. I had to add a master system to it to get dimming and other commands that the Siemens limited instruction set didn't have.

Just like you have to have a computer that has Zigbee interfaces etc to tie it into other systems the security alarm panel becomes a slave. It's complicated enough for most. Some of these interfaces as the same price as s hub anyway and some wrap up a micro PC completely

It uses x10 units ,
I replaced mine with lightwaverf ( Siemens actually rebrand lightwaverf too )There is better out there again as neither are two way

It was handy to have the alarm turning on lamps and the heating , but it's nothing like what I have now with lightwaverf.
Siemens does not work with lightwaverf or any Zigbee units like hue etc, WeMo sockets .
What I will say is that the Siemens panel is the best I've see at this .
But I found it limiting.

I've a pir in the attic and the kitchen etc. But many times you won't have an alarm pir where you'd want a lighting one. The hall is a good place though. The window contacts on less individually wired or wireless can be difficult to find a practical use for them in home automation, you end up adding triggers for the sake of it.

Where I have a need for a pir like a toilet or utility room ( hands full with washing etc) there's no intruder pir. Here I've added regular PIR that cost 15 euro they work just fine and are automatic.

The heating control is imo not great. Yes the keypad can turn on and off. But your be mad not to use one of the more modern units imo.
If you had it already than I'd keep it.

But turning the heating off when you have doors open etc is not as smart as it sounds.
If the back door is open do you really want the heating to turn off everywhere . What happens is the boiler turns off but the circulation pump keeps going for a period of time. You still lose heat out that door. It's not worth losing our kn the features of something like a nest thermostat

Here you need a different level of control you need the back door open to turn the hot water off to the rad in its room only.

The heating stays on, but only that rad is shut off. Less work for the boiler while the door is open .

The units don't know if they are on or off. It's one way communication.
Lightwaverfs is a little like this too but not as bad it has two way comes with its heating programmer and all its stats , for example on the wireless stat if I change the temp it changes on the app. And the app can set the temp too. Schedules are the same. TVRs too. It is now also aware if sockets are locked or now (only recessed ones) that's a status flag on the app.

For me apart from turning on security lights when the alarm sounds I found much more functionality with other systems.

Most alarms have an output to let you know they are activated and you can link them.
If you are very handy with technical equipment the Siemens panel is the way to go.


Pros

Lots of calendars, I used 2. Heating and Christmas lights
Keypads can be used as switches very handy this is something you'll use every day multiple key pads are advised
Turn on lights via x10 if the Alarm sounds
Can use alarm sensors
Heating on or off via the app ( once you map it)

If you are handy with with Adriano and rPi computers you can get a great system out if it . I understand that if you have a few rPs you can integrate to a level where you have the best of the best and take a pir trigger to turn on a Zigbee socket.

If like me you now look at security on its own with maybe integrated cameras this is a super system. I really don't want IFTTT options my panel

Out of all the panels Siemens give this a good go imo.
Because x10 just carries out the last command it was sent. It can be handy as you can use all the Siemens features , and run another x10 controller as well . It appears to be integrated (that's good) An X10 lighting socket addressed as B10 can be turned on and off via the Siemens panel. Buy another system with x10 and use its as a dimmer etc once it talks to B10 too.

X10 on eBay has gone dirt cheap recently (because of the other options people are changing) but that's an advantage imo if you want to save money and are tech savvy

It works if your internet connection fails , many don't

It has battery back up from the iap

If you like on off control and can find use for some of the sensors it's a great system ( on that you run out of ideas fairly quickly)

The app is great. You will still need this anyway the remote commands I think have to run the right Siemens network ( good IMO)
But isolating zones etc is very easy on the app. If you are out and say a particular pir was acting up you can inhibit it and set the rest of the alarm.

Cons
Heating control and cloud reporting stats don't feature unless you tie into a mini computer that is actually the master and you buy the hub interfaces for the wireless and mesh systems, zwave, Zigbee. Lightwaverfs etc they all add up

If you just use the Siemens panel you are stuck with x10
X10 sockets are imo the worst looking unit in home auto
X10 technology runs over power lines, is unreliable sometimes needing filters
X10 was developed in 1975 it's 41 year old technology
If a command doesn't get through then you won't know there's no handshake/feedback.
It's not IFTTT compliant so you miss all that cool functionality
It couldn't dim lights last time I checked , but that fixable for about 80 euro
From recollection the x10 instruction set for dimming was limited to 10 levels, but that's enough for most.
It's light switches are terrible looking big hickey cheap looking units
It does not link to Google home , apple home kit , Amazon echo without something smarter than it sitting on top if it.

You'd need to be handy with IT to get this working to a high standard . The guys who have this are all very handy and have fantastic systems

Philips hue lighting control it is not
Samsung smart things it is not etc.
Lightwaverfs it is not ( Siemens own lightwaverf I think)
Great intruder alarm panel it is imo.

By the way I have to take the suppliers name off your post sorry. PM.

Overall imo IFTTT type apps are closing the gap on having to have the systems on one overall ecosystem. Your links exist in the cloud. My Ring intercom had access to all my lightwaverf channels for free .
Philips hue, Apple, android, samsung , wemo , lightwaverf, Honeywell, nest, netamo etc can all be linked now via the IFTTT app along with your texts, Dropbox, calendars from apple android and Microsoft, your phones GPS etc.

I'd leave security and possibly cctv on its own app . I'm not knocking Siemens here IMO they are the best at it from an intruder alarm perspective. It's a great intruder alarm the app is free notifications have no annual charge

Once again to make this a great system imo you need good skills the fact that you mention MQTT indicates that you have so like everything else it depends on who's buying it.
But to use all the nice features of other systems you still have to buy more kit with interfaces but it's all possible.

bk

I fell like smart alarm systems are still very much in their infancy and I'm not really impressed with any of the systems on the market yet.

I understand why, home security systems are understandably conservative. You don't really want a home security system that doesn't work well and reliably and your certainly don't want a system that can be easily hacked.

I've looked at multiple smart home security systems, like ismartalaram, etc. but they all seem to fall down in one way or another.

Like many I've a crappy old HKC alarm system that I'd love to modernise and connect to my home automation systems. It would be great to be able to say to GH or Echo, "Arm home mode" (external sensors turned on only), "What is the alarm status", maybe even "trigger alarm" (if there was an intruder). Obviously I wouldn't want to be able disable the system by voice! At least not until we get really good voice recognition.

Looking at this Evohome system, it initially had me excited. It looks like it covers some vital things that many smart alarm systems miss. Namely:

1) Battery backup (24 hours) of the main unit if the electricity goes down. No brainer, your alarm system should continue to operate even if you don't have electricity. After all, if there was an extended blackout, it is probably when a lot of break ins would happen. ismartalarm stupidly doesn't support this! Evohome, does, great. Though no indication if you would get a notification if the electricity did go down, something I feel I really would want to be notified about (freezer melting, etc.).

2) Backup communication channel. If your broadband or wifi goes down, you want alarm notifications to continue to go out over GPRS mobile network. Again stupidly ismartalarm currently doesn't support this! Evohome does, but see below for the catch.

The above two points combine. If your electricity goes down, then so does your broadband, so you really want to get a notification of electricity and broadband down over GPRS.

3) They have a glass break audible sensor! This is great, many smart alarms I've looked at lack glass break sensors, instead relying on PIR's and cameras. A mistake IMO as glass break sensors are so cheap and add nice extra safety feature.

However when I looked further into this system, I see a number of issues that make it less attractive then it first seems.

1) The GPRS channel requires a €24 per year subscription, not cool.

2) If you leave a door or window open when you arm the system, it won't warn you that they are open!!!!!!!! What? This is like home security 101, almost all alarm systems will warn you if you leave a door or window open when you arm it. A very important feature as it is so easily to forget a window in a bedroom and a very simple way to improve security.

In fact on reading this, I immediately discounted this Evohome security system. It is a complete show stopper IMO.

3) Seems quiet expensive for what it is. When I priced it up with relatively same selection of sensors as my existing HKC system, it came out at almost twice as expensive and that is without install, that my HKC system included.

4) Lacks integration with IFTTT, Yonomi, Echo, Google Home, etc. Thier Evohome channel seems to be only for their thermostats, not the alarm system.

5) No indication if their cloud system actively monitors your alarm system and will notify you if the system is unreachable and if it does, what it's polling frequency is?

So overall, I'm still waiting for the Philips Hue * of smart home security systems.

* Come on Philips, if you guys made one, I'd probably throw my money at you!

I agree with Stoner that the Siemens Panel looks to be the best on the market. Does everything a traditional alarm system does, works with all the normal traditional alarm sensors, both wired and wireless, while adding a layer of web connectivity and control. I'd also agree with him that best to ignore it's x10 functionality.

Just a pity it lacks integration with IFTTT, Home, Echo, etc. I've been thinking of getting a Siemens panel for a while now, but I keep thinking that a really polished smart alarm system must be coming any day now, it is such a no brainer!

Stoner

bk wrote:

1) The GPRS channel requires a €24 per year subscription, not cool.

I think that's good value TBH

bk wrote:

2) If you leave a door or window open when you arm the system, it won't warn you that they are open!!!!!!!! What? This is like home security 101, almost all alarm systems will warn you if you leave a door or window open when you arm it. A very important feature as it is so easily to forget a window in a bedroom and a very simple way to improve security.

Agreed crazy stuff

bk wrote:

4) Lacks integration with IFTTT, Yonomi, Echo, Google Home, etc. Thier Evohome channel seems to be only for their thermostats, not the alarm system.

Yes I looked at this recently and made the same comment

bk wrote:

So overall, I'm still waiting for the Philips Hue * of smart home security systems.

True

bk wrote:

* Come on Philips, if you guys made one, I'd probably throw my money at you!

I don't know! They'd want to make an acquisition , like Siemens did with Europlex.

bk

Stoner wrote: »

I don't know! They'd want to make an acquisition , like Siemens did with Europlex.

I agree and it was a bit of a throw away comment. It actually goes against my general philosophy of buying only products from companies who actually specialise in each area (Philips for smart lighting, Netatmo/Hive/Nest for heating, Harmony for remotes, etc.) and then integrating at the cloud level, rather then trying to get a jack of all trades, master of none, like x10 from the Siemens panels.

I suppose it stems from just how impressed I'm with Philips Hue, they really are the leading light in home automation tech, even blowing Google's Nest with their deep pockets out of the water.

Rock solid reliability, massive range of products that is ever growing and improving with every generation and integration with pretty much every other smart home ecosystem and cloud service out there. They really are just firing on all cylinders, they have a fantastic well thought out strategy IMO and I only wish every other HA tech company was like them.

I agree with you, I wouldn't be happy if they just entered Home Security systems on their own. But imagine the possibility if they were to buy a traditional, quality home security system company and were to merge their hardware experience with Philips software experience. Could make for a very exciting system and new market for Philips. But then that might over stretech them.

At least I'd love to see Philips create a Hue smart plug.

Stoner

They are a great company. I did an internship with them abroad in an R&D department many years ago. The Philips CDV system was all the rage. They got a lot of things off the ground, they've kicked a few doors open in their time plenty others ran in after them
But lighting is where they started out. I'm delighted for them a good European start up! They deserve an A+ product