Overfeeding a cat

Irish Stones

My cat is 16 years old and has been recently treated with radiotherapy for a cancer in her mouth. She also hed two chemo injections prior to beginning the radiotherapy, 8 more injections will follow from next week.
So far so good, she survived the terrible ordeal of the radiation (10 radiations in 5 days), but she returned home a week ago with a unstoppable diarrhea. She had up to five discharges in the first days, nothing yesterday, twice today. Apart from this, the cat is fine and is even too active, I have never known her this way.
Because of her mouth condition she won't be able to eat through her mouth for about 15 days, so a PEG has been inserted in her stomach.
The doctors told me to feed her with up to 150 grams a day of a high energy wet food suitable for a PEG. Such an intake of food would give her around 700 kCal a day.
This morning I have found several tables on the web about RER, resting energy requirements, for a cat like mine. She weighs 2.6 kg, the tables say that her RER is 145-170 kCal a day, corrected by a factor 1.2 for a weight gain, so she should take not more than 204 kCal a day, that is more than three times less than what the doctors said.
A similar table was given to me by the same doctors, and this table has the following formula
Daily kCal = (30 x Pet Weight) + 70
In my case kCal = (30 x 2.6) + 70 = 148, which is not too far from the values above, so I really do not understand why they contradicted themselves.
Am I right to say that the overfeeding indicated by the vets could be the cause of my cat's diarrhea? I mean, it's as I am eating ten full meals each day, I think I would feel sick too.
Am I right to reduce her food intake to an amount that would give her 200 kCal each day, so 40-50 grams?
Today is Saturday, so I cannot call them and discuss about this until Monday.
What would you do in my situation?

PucaMama

Irish Stones wrote: »

My cat is 16 years old and has been recently treated with radiotherapy for a cancer in her mouth. She also hed two chemo injections prior to beginning the radiotherapy, 8 more injections will follow from next week.
So far so good, she survived the terrible ordeal of the radiation (10 radiations in 5 days), but she returned home a week ago with a unstoppable diarrhea. She had up to five discharges in the first days, nothing yesterday, twice today. Apart from this, the cat is fine and is even too active, I have never known her this way.
Because of her mouth condition she won't be able to eat through her mouth for about 15 days, so a PEG has been inserted in her stomach.
The doctors told me to feed her with up to 150 grams a day of a high energy wet food suitable for a PEG. Such an intake of food would give her around 700 kCal a day.
This morning I have found several tables on the web about RER, resting energy requirements, for a cat like mine. She weighs 2.6 kg, the tables say that her RER is 145-170 kCal a day, corrected by a factor 1.2 for a weight gain, so she should take not more than 204 kCal a day, that is more than three times less than what the doctors said.
A similar table was given to me by the same doctors, and this table has the following formula
Daily kCal = (30 x Pet Weight) + 70
In my case kCal = (30 x 2.6) + 70 = 148, which is not too far from the values above, so I really do not understand why they contradicted themselves.
Am I right to say that the overfeeding indicated by the vets could be the cause of my cat's diarrhea? I mean, it's as I am eating ten full meals each day, I think I would feel sick too.
Am I right to reduce her food intake to an amount that would give her 200 kCal each day, so 40-50 grams?
Today is Saturday, so I cannot call them and discuss about this until Monday.
What would you do in my situation?

Your cat doesn't just need the RER calories it needs enough to cope with radiation therapy and get better from it. Do not change anything by yourself. The diarrhoea Is probably affects from radiation therapy. Also being off solid foods. Your cat is at a vulnerable stage. Do everything your vet says.

DBB

Absolutely 100% echo PucaMama's advice... Healing burns up calories.
Radiation therapy causes diarrhoea.
Leave as is and talk to your vet on Monday to put your mind at ease.

Irish Stones

PucaMama wrote: »

Your cat doesn't just need the RER calories it needs enough to cope with radiation therapy and get better from it. Do not change anything by yourself. The diarrhoea Is probably affects from radiation therapy. Also being off solid foods. Your cat is at a vulnerable stage. Do everything your vet says.

The doctors that performed the radiotherapy do not recognise the diarrhoea as a side effect of the therapy itself or the 10 sedations. They were actually surprised by the news. They suggested me a home treatment with tablets that should have worked in a couple of days, we are at the fifth day and still no changes. I am a bit worried about it, because if the cat loses everything she takes in then she will have a hard time recovering from the heavy therapy.
Despite the continuous diarrhoea she feels great and is full of energy. Lately she is not using her litterbox anymore, can you imagine what our floor might look like? Probably she links the litterbox to her situations and she's avoiding it.
About being off solid food, the PEG, this tube to her stomach, needs to be rinsed with clean water after every use, at least 5 ml of water. But the cat also takes Ranitidine 15 minutes before food and an antibiotic 15 minutes later twice a day and both these drugs go through the PEG and need washing. So every time she takes about 15-20 ml of water, it's more water than food. These drugs cannot be related to the diarrhoea either, according to the vets.
How can I solve this out?
Thanks!

PucaMama

Irish Stones wrote: »

The doctors that performed the radiotherapy do not recognise the diarrhoea as a side effect of the therapy itself or the 10 sedations. They were actually surprised by the news. They suggested me a home treatment with tablets that should have worked in a couple of days, we are at the fifth day and still no changes. I am a bit worried about it, because if the cat loses everything she takes in then she will have a hard time recovering from the heavy therapy.
Despite the continuous diarrhoea she feels great and is full of energy. Lately she is not using her litterbox anymore, can you imagine what our floor might look like? Probably she links the litterbox to her situations and she's avoiding it.
About being off solid food, the PEG, this tube to her stomach, needs to be rinsed with clean water after every use, at least 5 ml of water. But the cat also takes Ranitidine 15 minutes before food and an antibiotic 15 minutes later twice a day and both these drugs go through the PEG and need washing. So every time she takes about 15-20 ml of water, it's more water than food. These drugs cannot be related to the diarrhoea either, according to the vets.
How can I solve this out?
Thanks!

She is still looking ok because of the amount of food she's getting. I understand it's frustrating cleaning up all the time. Could you confine her to a large dog crate and only take her out to play?

Irish Stones

DBB wrote: »

Absolutely 100% echo PucaMama's advice... Healing burns up calories.
Radiation therapy causes diarrhoea.
Leave as is and talk to your vet on Monday to put your mind at ease.

Thanks, DBB, re therapy causing diarrhoea, the doctors said it isn't the case.

Irish Stones

PucaMama wrote: »

She is still looking ok because of the amount of food she's getting. I understand it's frustrating cleaning up all the time. Could you confine her to a large dog crate and only take her out to play?

No, PucaMama, she would hate being confined, she has her routines and changing them, especially in this moment of her life, might cause stress.
She has her pillow on the sofa, she can reach it easily, but it seems she does not remember to step down when she needs to pee. So lately she urinates on the pillow that has been protected with pet training pads that I replace at least twice a day. She pees on the pad when she sleeps, but also intentionally.
This morning I woke up early (4:30) to check her out and found urine in three different spots, plus some liquid poo on the floor not far from the litterbox. I had to clean everything before going back to bed!
Outside it's too cold and wet to allow her out. I do when it's warm, like yesterday, not today (I am Italian, I live in Italy, our weather might be different than yours ). Furthermore, it's not sure that she "makes her things" outdoors. She might take a walk outside, then she gets in again and lets it go on the floor

PucaMama

Irish Stones wrote: »

No, PucaMama, she would hate being confined, she has her routines and changing them, especially in this moment of her life, might cause stress.
She has her pillow on the sofa, she can reach it easily, but it seems she does not remember to step down when she needs to pee. So lately she urinates on the pillow that has been protected with pet training pads that I replace at least twice a day. She pees on the pad when she sleeps, but also intentionally.
This morning I woke up early (4:30) to check her out and found urine in three different spots, plus some liquid poo on the floor not far from the litterbox. I had to clean everything before going back to bed!
Outside it's too cold and wet to allow her out. I do when it's warm, like yesterday, not today (I am Italian, I live in Italy, our weather might be different than yours ). Furthermore, it's not sure that she "makes her things" outdoors. She might take a walk outside, then she gets in again and lets it go on the floor

Maybe you could try the pants they put on female dogs in heat

DBB

Would she wear pants? You can also use pampers, you'll need to snip a little hole in the appropriate spot for her tail, but I've used them with success (albeit with pee) on a dog.

Irish Stones

PucaMama wrote: »

Maybe you could try the pants they put on female dogs in heat

DBB wrote: »

Would she wear pants? You can also use pampers, you'll need to snip a little hole in the appropriate spot for her tail, but I've used them with success (albeit with pee) on a dog.

At first it seemed a very good idea, but on a second thought I realised it could be wrong. I had a vision of soft poo pinched between my cat's buttock and the pants, with filth spread all over her rear, with her coat to be cleaned and... oh my God!
However, today no diarrhoea yet, the last episode was yesterday at 10 am. I changed two things. The food intake, reduced by a certain amount (I know, you discouraged me doing so, but it was a desperate attempt) and a new probiotics supplement. Instead of a pet product I am trying with a human product. I had used it before and I had very good result with her, I know it's well tolerated by cats.
Tomorrow the cat should fast because we have to run a blood test. On that occasion I will talk to the vet. The cat will also have the first injection of chemo after the radiotherapy.
I will let you know.

PucaMama

Irish Stones wrote: »

At first it seemed a very good idea, but on a second thought I realised it could be wrong. I had a vision of soft poo pinched between my cat's buttock and the pants, with filth spread all over her rear, with her coat to be cleaned and... oh my God!
However, today no diarrhoea yet, the last episode was yesterday at 10 am. I changed two things. The food intake, reduced by a certain amount (I know, you discouraged me doing so, but it was a desperate attempt) and a new probiotics supplement. Instead of a pet product I am trying with a human product. I had used it before and I had very good result with her, I know it's well tolerated by cats.
Tomorrow the cat should fast because we have to run a blood test. On that occasion I will talk to the vet. The cat will also have the first injection of chemo after the radiotherapy.
I will let you know.

Please don't go against vet advice she needs all the food she can get. A few days of cleaning up poo is nothing compared to the health of your cat.

Irish Stones

PucaMama wrote: »

Please don't go against vet advice she needs all the food she can get. A few days of cleaning up poo is nothing compared to the health of your cat.

It's not just cleaning up after her, it's a matter of helping her keeping most of what she's being administered with. So far all she was getting as food was discharged within an hour, so virtually she hadn't been receiving any food in the last 8 days.
Last night and today she was given a bit less food but she kept it all.
It might have been luck or the right thing to do, but she's been fine for the past 38 hours. None of the vets' advices has worked so far.
Tomorrow I will ask the vet more info about this. I don't know whether he is able to give me answers, so far many vets have proved to be incompetent in regard to my cat's diseases.
I don't want to sound weird, but my cat has always shown uncommon and unexpected responses to treatments, and doctors were surprised everytime.

I promise to keep you informed about everything.

Irish Stones

Yesterday my cat had the first shot of chemo after the radiotherapy. All went well, the drug they use, bleomycin, has no side effects, they say. Seven more shots will come, once a week until the end of December.
I also asked the vet whether my theory about the high food intake and the diarrhoea could have a sense and he told me that the previous doctor (who treated my cat with radiation) might have made a mistake. He said that 700 kCal per day sound really excessive for a cat, no matter the cat's weight, and that 150-200 kCal are nearer to the real needs of my cat.
So far no more diarrhoea, so this could prove that my idea was right in the first place.
I have sent an email to the first doctor to let him know about this new diet plan, he could reply me today.
Just out of curiosity, is there a place in Ireland where radiation therapy for pets is done?
As I wrote before, I am Italian and live in Italy and we have only one clinic where this is done. This clinic is 350 km from me, but for my cat I'd do everything. I know there's another place in Switzerland and one in Croatia.
Thanks!

kathleen37

I'm glad your kitty is doing well.

I have no recommendations for anywhere that does radiotherapy, but having googled, there is at least one clinic in Dublin that offers it.

I hope she keeps improving