EU Block UA (BFS-EWR) Deal

Jamie2k9

United will exit Belfast-Newark on 9th January 2017 after the EU blocked the deal on sate aid grounds.

Those who put it together should of known better.

Blut2

Good news for DUB at least I guess. Should result in more Belfast residents taking the M1 down.

Pat Dunne

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

United will exit Belfast-Newark on 9th January 2017 after the EU blocked the deal on sate aid grounds.

Those who put it together should of known better.

Well if all goes to plan with Brexit, this will have no bearing on the UK as they will be no longer a part of the EU and not subject to their rules and regulations.

Jamie2k9

Pat Dunne wrote: »

Well if all goes to plan with Brexit, this will have no bearing on the UK as they will be no longer a part of the EU and not subject to their rules and regulations.

True but I'm sure an Open Skies Agreement will restrict it and if not the UK financial situation as a whole will.

Pat Dunne

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

True but I'm sure an Open Skies Agreement will restrict it and if not the UK financial situation as a whole will.

Yes, it will be very interesting to see how Brexit pans out. Especially if there is a knock on effect throughout the regions in the UK, losing similar connections with possible trade implications.

From Great Britain to Little England in less than a century.

arubex

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Those who put it together should of known better.

Seems to be a prevalent feeling 'up here' too.

Shame that the route is ending but at least we're no longer paying £2 per NI resident per year subsidy to an airline that made $4.5 billion in profit last year.

Pat Dunne

arubex wrote: »

Seems to be a prevalent feeling 'up here' too.

Shame that the route is ending but at least we're no longer paying £2 per NI resident per year subsidy to an airline that made $4.5 billion in profit last year.

Three and a half million sound like a good investment if it means US firms are providing jobs in NI on the basis of having direct air access to their firms based in NI. If US companies decide to relocate to the Republic as a result of Brexit and the cessation of a direct air route. There would be much bigger hue and cry especially from people whose jobs are threathened with closure.

You just can't isolate a subsidy like this if it has benefits for the community as a whole. If this service has resulted in say 250 new jobs, this has a potential knock on effect of providing at least 5 additional jobs in support to each and everyone of the 250 new jobs. So now you're talking a further 1250 jobs resulting in a potential 1500 jobs.

Now 1500 people drawing the dole in NI is an annual cost to the NI tax payer of £5.7million.

Jamie2k9

arubex wrote: »

Seems to be a prevalent feeling 'up here' too.

Shame that the route is ending but at least we're no longer paying £2 per NI resident per year subsidy to an airline that made $4.5 billion in profit last year.

Worst thing is it would of been pretty easy to side step EU rules (like member states do all the time). UA may be part of the problem with little notice or the NI Goverment dragged it's heels until they were forced to save the route after UA got fed up.

TopTec

Pat Dunne wrote: »

From Great Britain to Little England in less than a century.

Think I would rather be in a little England making my own choices than a little bit of the EU having no say in anything, even our own budget!

TT

arubex

Pat Dunne wrote: »

Three and a half million sound like a good investment if it means US firms are providing jobs in NI on the basis of having direct air access to their firms based in NI.

No sane company would consider a single daily flight by a single airline to be a reliable means of communication back to headquarters.

I worked for a US company in NI for 15 years and I used the Continental / United service *once* to go to HQ compared to over a dozen times flying through Dublin and once through Manchester.

United's pricing and schedule ( and horrific attitude to passengers in the case of delays ) simply didn't work for the company and accordingly it was usually only considered the contingency option for short-notice travel if Aer Lingus or American were booked-out.


~~

Amusingly when the executives of two other Belfast-officed US companies visited, they often had their bizjets fly into Dublin and then came up by car. It's really only Citibank that uses Belfast ( City ) for its bizjets.

J.pilkington

Pat Dunne wrote: »

Three and a half million sound like a good investment if it means US firms are providing jobs in NI on the basis of having direct air access to their firms based in NI.
.

arubex wrote: »

No sane company would consider a single daily flight by a single airline to be a reliable means of communication back to headquarters.
.

Exactly. I also work for a US company with sites (r&d, manufacturing and sales) in most EMEIA countries and the amount which are located within an hour of an international airport served by a direct US air route are in the minority. It's low in the pecking order when choosing a site and especially if the route is served by one single aircraft which is relying on state aid.

Pat Dunne

J.pilkington wrote: »

Exactly. I also work for a US company with sites (r&d, manufacturing and sales) in most EMEIA countries and the amount which are located within an hour of an international airport served by a direct US air route are in the minority. It's low in the pecking order when choosing a site and especially if the route is served by one single aircraft which is relying on state aid.

It interesting what you say about the location of US companies. My experience is that almost all of the very large US companies located in West and North Dublin, listed access close to DUB as high on there priorities of "must have". But sure thats just my experience.

Pat Dunne

arubex wrote: »

No sane company would consider a single daily flight by a single airline to be a reliable means of communication back to headquarters.

I worked for a US company in NI for 15 years and I used the Continental / United service *once* to go to HQ compared to over a dozen times flying through Dublin and once through Manchester.

United's pricing and schedule ( and horrific attitude to passengers in the case of delays ) simply didn't work for the company and accordingly it was usually only considered the contingency option for short-notice travel if Aer Lingus or American were booked-out.


~~

Amusingly when the executives of two other Belfast-officed US companies visited, they often had their bizjets fly into Dublin and then came up by car. It's really only Citibank that uses Belfast ( City ) for its bizjets.

Fair enough but you got to start from somewhere and build it.

Pat Dunne

TopTec wrote: »

Think I would rather be in a little England making my own choices than a little bit of the EU having no say in anything, even our own budget!

TT

Mores the pity we didn't have someone looking over Charlie McCreevy and Brian Cowan's shoulders in the late 90's and early part of this centuary to stop them from framing the disasterous budgets that lead to the melt down.

I'd be sticking with my view point that the EU is beneficial to Ireland.

Apologies to the Mods for dragging this topic into the murky world of politics.

Idbatterim

just checked passenger figures on the Newark route, fairly negligible.

69,258 in 2015 and 82,958 in 2014, a 17% decrease year on year...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belfast_International_Airport

Blut2

Pat Dunne wrote: »

It interesting what you say about the location of US companies. My experience is that almost all of the very large US companies located in West and North Dublin, listed access close to DUB as high on there priorities of "must have". But sure thats just my experience.

Former US MNC worker here too. A lot of US companies that are located in less desirable areas will use DUB access as public justification for it. So rather than saying "rents around Stephens Green are insane, so instead we decided to base our operations in Blanchardstown because its cheaper" they'll say "motorway access to the airport was a top priority, making Blanchardstown the obvious choice". It saves face for the company.

Jamie2k9

European Commission have come out saying they received a complaint about UA package for BFS-EWR however did not make any decision about the package.

So wonder if the package would of been ruled illegal or have UA taken the easy way out without getting much blame?

LiamaDelta

They're probably not willing to take the chance that it would be ruled illegal in the future and have to pay back the money. So the prudent business decision is to pull out as planned.

Jamie2k9

LiamaDelta wrote: »

They're probably not willing to take the chance that it would be ruled illegal in the future and have to pay back the money. So the prudent business decision is to pull out as planned.

They will be paying back the portion received to date.