How did land title come about

Hope this make sense, my interest in family history has found lots of insetting things.

I found the Griffith valuations of 1851 for my family and it give a yearly value something like 10 shillings would that be the rate? did people pay rates in 1851? How did freehold come about, did people have legal title and if so how did that work in practice if they were largely illiterate. At the time ( 1851 ) the local landlord owned what is now commanage how it change from ownership to commanage and who decided which familys got the grazing right?.

The other interesting thing everyone must have been grazing sheep and livestock on the road if the petty sessions are anything to go by

invicta

Jezus!
Who taught you history??

patsy_mccabe

Are those values not rents to the local landlord?

patsy_mccabe

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Are those values not rents to the local landlord?

No because it was free hold its says so they also recorded tenants and who their landlords were.

KatyMac

mariaalice wrote: »

The other interesting thing everyone must have been grazing sheep and livestock on the road if the petty sessions are anything to go by

People were grazing along the roads when I was a child 50 odd years ago it was called 'the long acre'. I remember an old woman used to put her cows (6)out after milking and you could see the cows heading home themselves in the evening. Don't think she ever had to go looking for them. A lot less traffic those days, of course.

Willfarman

invicta wrote: »

Jezus!
Who taught you history??

Eamon devalera!

Sam Kade

KatyMac wrote: »

People were grazing along the roads when I was a child 50 odd years ago it was called 'the long acre'. I remember an old woman used to put her cows (6)out after milking and you could see the cows heading home themselves in the evening. Don't think she ever had to go looking for them. A lot less traffic those days, of course.

A neighbour of mine with an acre used to graze the long acre in the 70's. 2 black dairy cows that filled an 11 gallon milk churn daily at peak yield.

maidhc

Title was initially granted by the Monarch to his subjects in return for certain favours such for men for the army. The nobleman then sublet down along the line; and ultimately to us peasants!

Overtime the length of leases got longer, and other types of ownership crept in such as freehold. You will still see however the Earl of Pembroke as the ultimate owner of vast swathes of Dublin.

The next biggest change was the Registration of Title Act, which brought about the Folio as we now know it. This, and the Land Commission splitting the big estates is what gave us what we are familiar with today.

Originally one would have handed over a sod to the new owner as a legal display of ownership. No doubt may people would still rather this today!!

KatyMac

KatyMac wrote: »

People were grazing along the roads when I was a child 50 odd years ago it was called 'the long acre'. I remember an old woman used to put her cows (6)out after milking and you could see the cows heading home themselves in the evening. Don't think she ever had to go looking for them. A lot less traffic those days, of course.

Well in the 1860 you would have been prosecuted in the local petty sessions one of my ancestors was fined 1 shilling in 1860 for grazing sheep on the public road it is the equivalent of 10 pound old money, now that sounds very little but remember they had very little in the first place so it was a lot of money then. Individual were also prosecuted for taking kindling from a wood belonging to the local landlord, as one of my brother says how did they accept things and not rise up.

Username John

Sam Kade wrote: »

A neighbour of mine with an acre used to graze the long acre in the 70's. 2 black dairy cows that filled an 11 gallon milk churn daily at peak yield.

Lad at home used to do it up til about the early 90s

They had an acre at home, and rented an acre about a mile away, and the children would take a lot of the day to walk the few cows to the rented acre and back again all summer...

Twas only after he stopped doing it, that you'd notice how good the few cows were at keeping the road verges under some kinda control...

patsy_mccabe

We had a woman near us that kept a horse in a local livery. She used to walk the horse along a private road near us, letting it eat along the verge. It kept it well back in fairness. She was a real animal lover and this one day I had to pull a dead cow out to the road for the knackery lorry. I think that upset her or something cause I never saw her after that.:(

Willfarman

maidhc wrote: »

Title was initially granted by the Monarch to his subjects in return for certain favours such for men for the army. The nobleman then sublet down along the line; and ultimately to us peasants!

Overtime the length of leases got longer, and other types of ownership crept in such as freehold. You will still see however the Earl of Pembroke as the ultimate owner of vast swathes of Dublin.

The next biggest change was the Registration of Title Act, which brought about the Folio as we now know it. This, and the Land Commission splitting the big estates is what gave us what we are familiar with today.

Originally one would have handed over a sod to the new owner as a legal display of ownership. No doubt may people would still rather this today!!

it would be great. And use the same spade to bury the 'self regulating ' legal profession in this country who are fleecing farmers in the case of any change of land ownership.

maidhc

Willfarman wrote: »

it would be great. And use the same spade to bury the 'self regulating ' legal profession in this country who are fleecing farmers in the case of any change of land ownership.

Watch it...

Willfarman

maidhc wrote: »

Watch it...

......... is there more to come?

kowtow

In passing it might interest some that rural Ireland (not municipal Ireland) was actually the first place in the UK and possibly the world to have compulsory registration of title... came in with one of Gladstones land acts in either 1871 or 1876 from my very rusty memory. England didn't get the same clarity for another 100 years.

arctictree

The griffith valuation is very interesting around here as it records all the landholdings and what was paid. Some of the farms are now being farmed by the descendants of the original tenants. All the farms were part of a huge estate and rent was paid to this landlord. Some of them were sublet. Some of the farms were also smaller back then but have been since consolidated into bigger holdings. I think freehold came about during the land wars and subsequently the land commission.

The petty sessions are also very interesting! We had to research this a few years ago. I can see case after case of neighbours being up in court against each other for trespass, damage etc I suppose, if all you have is a field of turnips and your neighbours sheep eats them all, then you and your family will starve. Without good fences stock were constantly getting out on the road or into neighbouring farms. It was probably very hard work to keep them maintained.

patsy_mccabe

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/

laoch na mona

KatyMac wrote: »

People were grazing along the roads when I was a child 50 odd years ago it was called 'the long acre'. I remember an old woman used to put her cows (6)out after milking and you could see the cows heading home themselves in the evening. Don't think she ever had to go looking for them. A lot less traffic those days, of course.

If you did that now the neighbours would report you

maidhc

Willfarman wrote: »

......... is there more to come?

I'm a solicitor by day. Represent lots of farmers too. I don't think my fees are high at all; I suspect it may be easier to make money from Dairying to be honest!

Willfarman

maidhc wrote: »

I'm a solicitor by day. Represent lots of farmers too. I don't think my fees are high at all; I suspect it may be easier to make money from Dairying to be honest!

Ah you can milk a cow every day but a farmer wouldn't be long going dry!

Nekarsulm

A piece of land we bought back in the 1970's has title deeds going back to a chap call Archibald Brabazon Sparrow!

Username John

Nekarsulm wrote: »

A piece of land we bought back in the 1970's has title deeds going back to a chap call Archibald Brabazon Sparrow!

I had to google Brabazon...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Meath

patsy_mccabe

There was a fella that played hurling for Clare during the 90's called The Sparrow. No relation, I supppse.:)

Lady Haywire

Nekarsulm wrote: »

A piece of land we bought back in the 1970's has title deeds going back to a chap call Archibald Brabazon Sparrow!

Not related to a certain Jack, who has a jar of dirt....?

Nekarsulm

Could easily be!