replacing heating system

Jen44

hi everyone just looking for some advise/ recommendations! We bought a house last year with a really old oil boiler which is badly in need of replacement. The rads are all also very old and most of them heat poorly and appear to be full of gunk! So we are planning on changing our heating system. We got a new oil tank when we moved in last year as the other one was covered in rust and about to fall apart and I mentioned to the guy who replaced it that we intended on upgrading the entire system in around a year or so and changing to gas. He told me it would prob cost between 10- 12k to do it as all our pipes would need to be replaced too as they are old steel pipes and that from what he could see at the rads there was a lot of corrosion. As it sounds like its going to be a big job we are thinking of going down the SEAI route and getting a grant. Has anyone got any recommendations on who to call out for a quote. We did get new flooring put down last year so are hoping to salvage that even though we will prob need new pipes. Do you think that we are looking at around the 12k mark? We are currently getting internal insulation done in the upstairs bedrooms and have had the gable wall dry lined also! Appreciate any advise!

Idbatterim

are you on a gas line or will it be lpg? secondly, I would get a combi boiler, unlimited instant hot water, no inefficient waiting for water to heat in tanks for ages, only to cool down and only using some or very little at times. Modern boilers will have a domestic hot water priority feature...

My family homes has no water tanks whatsoever, I am not sure if this complies with current regulations. If I was building a house myself or gutting mine, thats what Id be doing... Potentially also zone the living areas and bedrooms.

In terms of the steel piping, Id get a second opinion. That they are full of gunk, isnt a surprise, they can be powerflushed... Certainly a hell of a lot cheaper than 12k, if they dont actually need replacing...

I would imagine you should be able to salvage all if not most of the flooring, hopefully you have a few boards left over from the job and if not, may still be able to buy the exact same ones...

Jen44

I rang bord gais to see if we would be able to get the gas in and they said it wont be a problem as there is a gas line outside the property and there would be a charge of, i think, around the 300 mark! I did ask the same gentleman who quoted us the 12k about power flushing the system and he said that he wouldnt do it as the system is so old that the corrosion and gunk is prob helping to seal leaks and we could end up with leaks all over the system if we power flush it.

Idbatterim

I rang bord gais to see if we would be able to get the gas in and they said it wont be a problem as there is a gas line outside the property and there would be a charge of, i think, around the 300 mark! I did ask the same gentleman who quoted us the 12k about power flushing the system and he said that he wouldnt do it as the system is so old that the corrosion and gunk is prob helping to seal leaks and we could end up with leaks all over the system if we power flush it.

from a bit of research, powerflushing seems to be about E500 for up to 8 radiators. Id get a second opinion from another plumber before doing anything else.

definitely get a second opinion. Its hard to get impartial advice from someone who makes a living out of doing this kind of work. Im not saying hes wrong. Im just saying, I would be getting a second and maybe third opinion. 12k is a chunk of change! What size house is this by the way?

12k seems off the wall!

https://www.donedeal.ie/heating-for-sale/powerflushing/6310584

Dtp1979

It can be hit and miss Powerflushing gunbarrell. Personally I've never had any issues with it so far. How old is the system?

Jen44

It's a standard three bed semi! The house was built in the 60's and I would say the heating hasn't been upgraded in years i didn't even know what the boiler was at first! It's in the garage and I asked the lady selling the house what it was and she laughed and said the boiler so you can imagine how old it is!

Dtp1979

Jen44 wrote: »

It's a standard three bed semi! The house was built in the 60's and I would say the heating hasn't been upgraded in years i didn't even know what the boiler was at first! It's in the garage and I asked the lady selling the house what it was and she laughed and said the boiler so you can imagine how old it is!

You're probably better off replacing the system. Are the floors timber or concrete?

Dtp1979

Just re read. You've timber floors.
Every job is different but at the moment I'm doing a very similar job on a similar house. All new rads and pipework, new cylinder and gas boiler, zoned heating controls is all coming in less than 9,000

_Brian

Of course there is the option of changing the boiler and seeing how the rest of the system performs.

It's very possible and likely that the current boiler just isn't producing the heat required to heat the rads correctly.

A new condensing boiler will only be a fraction of the cost of what you've been quoted.

Dtp1979

_Brian wrote: »

Of course there is the option of changing the boiler and seeing how the rest of the system performs.

It's very possible and likely that the current boiler just isn't producing the heat required to heat the rads correctly.

A new condensing boiler will only be a fraction of the cost of what you've been quoted.

Yes but you're talking about 60 year old rads and pipework.

_Brian

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Yes but you're talking about 60 year old rads and pipework.

Yes, but if they're not leaking and OP thinks spending all the money in one go is too much I was pointing out that there are options to break down the job into manageable sections.
It's not an "all or nothing" situation.

Dtp1979

_Brian wrote: »

Yes, but if they're not leaking and OP thinks spending all the money in one go is too much I was pointing out that there are options to break down the job into manageable sections.
It's not an "all or nothing" situation.

Gunbarrell has a life expectancy of 40-50 years max. The intelligent thing would be to do the job at once. Of course you can cut corners and chance your arm, but professionals will usually give the customer the best option.

Wearb

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Gunbarrell has a life expectancy of 40-50 years max. The intelligent thing would be to do the job at once. Of course you can cut corners and chance your arm, but professionals will usually give the customer the best option.

There is also the manufacturers requirement to fit new boilers into clean systems. Even without that requirement, it make good sense. You don't want to be changing a new boiler twice.

Jen44

I defo don't want to half do it I would be raging if we spent the money on a new boiler then ran into difficulties because of the old pipes! The rads definitely need replacing the knobs on the them are old and rusty and there is corrosion on the pipes that lead from the floor to the rad greeny coloured stuff

Idbatterim

Definetly get more quotes. 12k is ridiculous... Also Any system that involves having to wait for hot water and heat up a Ton of it, is a joke in this day and age...

Idbatterim

_Brian wrote: »

Of course there is the option of changing the boiler and seeing how the rest of the system performs.

It's very possible and likely that the current boiler just isn't producing the heat required to heat the rads correctly.

A new condensing boiler will only be a fraction of the cost of what you've been quoted.

The existing boiler is obviously ancient. also natural gas is cheaper and far better than oil. If the op is on a natural gas line. It's a no brainer...

Dtp1979

Idbatterim wrote: »

Definetly get more quotes. 12k is ridiculous... Also Any system that involves having to wait for hot water and heat up a Ton of it, is a joke in this day and age...

Combi boilers are only suitable for apartments or very small houses. Irish water pressure is another reason you can't fit combis. It's dreadful. Whereas in the U.K., the pressure is fantastic, and combis are much more popular. If there's more than 1 bathroom then I wouldn't fit a combi.

Jen44

Water pressure in the house is dreadful been on to Irish water and they have had people out its fine to the mains outside the garden and there is no leak between the main and the house so they reckon old lead pipes could be the cause of poor pressure! No obvious leaks anywhere inside the house!

Dardania

You can (and should) go for a combi option rather than hot water cylinder - just get a pump put on the cold water storage tank. Such a simple solution, and gives a much better quality of use... plus you get some space in the hot press back.
The SEAI grant is the best way to go - they mandate a high standard of install
@idbatterim, it is against DCC's water regs at least to not have a local water storage in the house

Wearb

A combi isn't as attractive as it looks on the face of it. As has been said, there are instances where they are appropriate, but lots where they are not. There is nothing wrong with having a modern well insulated cylinder. That combined with controls mean that you only heat the amount of water that you need and it stays hot for a long time.

A combi need more maintenance than a regular boiler. Also you have the cost/maintenance of the pump. Lots more to go wrong.

I only say this because I have noticed a few threads where the combis were strongly recommended. There are other downsides to having a combi, such as above and no hot water storage in the event of a power cut or breakdown.

Idbatterim

in terms of the water pressure, our house in dublin, the pressure is more than adequate even serving the first floor without a pump. Secondly I wouldnt have a pump in the house, the noise is infuriating, a plumber installed one in my dads house down the country, when there was no need for it. My dad asked if he would install it in his own house and told him to get it out.

A combi isn't as attractive as it looks on the face of it. As has been said, there are instances where they are appropriate, but lots where they are not. There is nothing wrong with having a modern well insulated cylinder. That combined with controls mean that you only heat the amount of water that you need and it stays hot for a long time.

I have come across combis, that have a 40l or so tank inside them, where they pre-heat this water. might be handy for where there is more than one bathroom.

In terms of heating the water, what about the times where you dont use any of it? You also dont have unlimited hot water on demand...

Dtp1979

Idbatterim wrote: »

in terms of the water pressure, our house in dublin, the pressure is more than adequate even serving the first floor without a pump. Secondly I wouldnt have a pump in the house, the noise is infuriating, a plumber installed one in my dads house down the country, when there was no need for it. My dad asked if he would install it in his own house and told him to get it out.

I have come across combis, that have a 40l or so tank inside them, where they pre-heat this water. might be handy for where there is more than one bathroom.

In terms of heating the water, what about the times where you dont use any of it? You also dont have unlimited hot water on demand...

Why would you want unlimited hot water? As for the combis that have a hot water cylinder, get a price for them. They're outrageous prices.
Hot water demand dictates everything got to do with installing a combi. Op, put simply, if you have more than one bathroom don't fit a combi.

Jen44

We only have one at the moment but are planning on putting a second one downstairs and possibley one in the attic at a later stage!

Dtp1979

Jen44 wrote: »

We only have one at the moment but are planning on putting a second one downstairs and possibley one in the attic at a later stage!

Then don't fit a combi.