What to look for in Renewables/Heating quotes

mrsWhippy

Hi all,

I'm in the process of getting quotes for our heating & renewables for a new build starting early next year. I'm finding it difficult to compare and contrast options and wondering what I should be looking for specifically.

The requirements are as follows:

UFH upstairs and downstairs
A2W Heat pump
HRV

How can I tell a good heat pump system from a bad one? How do I know if they're laying enough piping for the UFH?

Also if anyone has any reviews on a 6kW Daikin Altherma, it'd be appreciated (by PM obv )

Cheers

sydthebeat

mrsWhippy wrote: »

Hi all,

I'm in the process of getting quotes for our heating & renewables for a new build starting early next year. I'm finding it difficult to compare and contrast options and wondering what I should be looking for specifically.

The requirements are as follows:

UFH upstairs and downstairs
A2W Heat pump
HRV

How can I tell a good heat pump system from a bad one? How do I know if they're laying enough piping for the UFH?

Also if anyone has any reviews on a 6kW Daikin Altherma, it'd be appreciated (by PM obv )

Cheers

who has told you want the requirements are?
if youve had a preliminary DEAP assessment carried out.. the assessor should be able to tell you:
1. in relation to the heat pump, the particular product used and thus all the values used in the assessment (there are loads!)
2. in relation to the HRV, the efficiency, the specific fan power and the number of rooms extracted from.

once you have those details you can price up different products on a like for like basis.

mrsWhippy

sydthebeat wrote: »

who has told you want the requirements are?
if youve had a preliminary DEAP assessment carried out.. the assessor should be able to tell you:
1. in relation to the heat pump, the particular product used and thus all the values used in the assessment (there are loads!)
2. in relation to the HRV, the efficiency, the specific fan power and the number of rooms extracted from.

once you have those details you can price up different products on a like for like basis.

Thanks. We have had our BER done and the quotes were done on the basis of the DEAP XML files - I just wasn't sure if this would also inform all the smaller details like pipe spacing, ducting type etc.

When it comes to the Heat Pump specs, is it really the COP that will determine how efficient the system is? Anything else I should look out for? There seem to be so many makes and models ....

JonathonS

There was a chap from N Ireland at the Self Build Show in Citywest in Sept who offers independent advice on all aspects of building in general and renewables / energy saving in particular. His costs appeared very reasonable and he seemed to know what he was talking about, based a several hundred builds he has advised on.

I suspect the Forum rules won't allow me to name the company, so PM me if interested.

kboc

JonathonS wrote: »

There was a chap from N Ireland at the Self Build Show in Citywest in Sept who offers independent advice on all aspects of building in general and renewables / energy saving in particular. His costs appeared very reasonable and he seemed to know what he was talking about, based a several hundred builds he has advised on.

I suspect the Forum rules won't allow me to name the company, so PM me if interested.

I have used this man in 2008 when I was building my house. Highly recommended.

Calahonda52

jamesmcgovern wrote: »

Best ASHP you can get is either a Thermia or Mitsubishi Ecodan. Theres a company based in Ardee that supply and install at nearly half the price of anyone else and I would highly recommend them. If you want their details just PM me and ill let you know who they are.

James, having read you 7 posts thus far, given that you are still at the planning stage I don't believe you are in a position to make the above assertion, even in this post-truth, post-modernism world we live in.

BryanF

jamesmcgovern wrote: »

Best ASHP you can get is either a Thermia or Mitsubishi Ecodan. Theres a company based in Ardee that supply and install at nearly half the price of anyone else and I would highly recommend them. If you want their details just PM me and ill let you know who they are.

Banned for advertising your company.

ShanE90

I'd recommend you get a couple of different quotes from different companies. When you have these I would ask can you visit a site/home where one of their systems is up and running. This won't be a problem with a good installer. Talk to the homeowner and see if they are happy with the overall system. Ask about the running costs, hot water production and comfort this will give you a real world idea of the system running costs.

The quality of the installation is more important than the unit you choose, I would class Heliotherm and Ochsner at the higher end of ASHPs but they come at a premium price. If one of theses is poorly installed it will perform similar to a budget heat pump.

Any system from Danfoss/Thermia, Mitsubishi Electric, Daikin, Hitachi, Panasonic ...etc will provide enough heat and hot water to meet your demands. The COP of any of these units in real operating conditions is more down to the quality of the entire installation and how the system is controlled rather than down to the unit specifically. Some units do perform better in colder conditions than others and it's worth mentioning a lot of manufactures quote the COP @ A7W35, you should also look at the efficiency @ A2W35.

Enquire from the installer about warranty and service in the future, within 8-12 years you will possibly need a compressor replacement, this is due to the constant defrosting which an air source HP requires when operating in temperatures around or below 0

Finally, would you consider a ground source? lower running costs, highly efficient due to the almost constant ground temperature all year round, far less moving parts, not exposed to the elements etc. and will last 20 years,

Not suitable for every site but something to consider.

Good luck
Shane.

mrsWhippy

ShanE90 wrote: »

I'd recommend you get a couple of different quotes from different companies. When you have these I would ask can you visit a site/home where one of their systems is up and running. This won't be a problem with a good installer. Talk to the homeowner and see if they are happy with the overall system. Ask about the running costs, hot water production and comfort this will give you a real world idea of the system running costs.

The quality of the installation is more important than the unit you choose, I would class Heliotherm and Ochsner at the higher end of ASHPs but they come at a premium price. If one of theses is poorly installed it will perform similar to a budget heat pump.

Any system from Danfoss/Thermia, Mitsubishi Electric, Daikin, Hitachi, Panasonic ...etc will provide enough heat and hot water to meet your demands. The COP of any of these units in real operating conditions is more down to the quality of the entire installation and how the system is controlled rather than down to the unit specifically. Some units do perform better in colder conditions than others and it's worth mentioning a lot of manufactures quote the COP @ A7W35, you should also look at the efficiency @ A2W35.

Enquire from the installer about warranty and service in the future, within 8-12 years you will possibly need a compressor replacement, this is due to the constant defrosting which an air source HP requires when operating in temperatures around or below 0

Finally, would you consider a ground source? lower running costs, highly efficient due to the almost constant ground temperature all year round, far less moving parts, not exposed to the elements etc. and will last 20 years,

Not suitable for every site but something to consider.

Good luck
Shane.

Great points Shane, thanks.
We have an energy consultant on board now to help review and choose the appropriate systems, it's a big weight off my shoulders as it's something I want to get right. We're looking at a Panasonic Aquarea at the moment, trying to get some more info on it's performance now. Any opinions on this particular model?

We had considered ground source alright, I know it's generally a more efficient system but we don't have the space required for (or the money for a borehole either I think!) I think this might be a better option for a larger house possibly?

Calahonda52

Re
Some units do perform better in colder conditions than others and it's worth mentioning a lot of manufactures quote the COP @ A7W35, you should also look at the efficiency @ A2W35.

for the benefit of others, this means:

The specified values have the following meaning, e.g. A2W35: heat source temperature +2°C, heat outlet temperature 35°C. Performance standards measured to EN14511

dathi

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Re
Some units do perform better in colder conditions than others and it's worth mentioning a lot of manufactures quote the COP @ A7W35, you should also look at the efficiency @ A2W35.

for the benefit of others, this means:

The specified values have the following meaning, e.g. A2W35: heat source temperature +2°C, heat outlet temperature 35°C. Performance standards measured to EN14511

and what part of the country you are installing it here in kilkenny we have 53 days of air frost per year which will hit the COP

Calahonda52

dathi wrote: »

and what part of the country you are installing it here in kilkenny we have 53 days of air frost per year which will hit the COP

Am not installing anywhere, am just trying to help the hard of hearing with an explanation of the code A7W35:D

JohnnyB23

So, What system did you eventually go with mrsWhippy ?