counselling - is there a stigma?

Robsweezie

i went to counselling for a time after a sudden massive panic attack, which caused subsequent feelings of anxiety and disassociation, not feeling 'there'. i was referred to counselling and found it helpful.

its not something i would've been open about, for fear it would be seen as weakness. and people thinking i had ''problems'', but dont we all? im aware that more and more people are coming forward with their own mental health struggles.

i think theres a perception that you have to be truly damaged to find yourself in counselling. but really i think everyone should have a counsellor. someone impartial to listen and offer advice. not a friend, an outsider who wont take your side automatically, nor put you down in a way a familiar face would.

have you been to counselling? would you go? do you feel theres a stigma attached to seeking help?

Robsweezie

Robsweezie wrote: »

i went to counselling for a time after a sudden massive panic attack, which caused subsequent feelings of anxiety and disassociation, not feeling 'there'. i was referred to counselling and found it helpful.

its not something i would've been open about, for fear it would be seen as weakness. and people thinking i had ''problems'', but dont we all? im aware that more and more people are coming forward with their own mental health struggles.

i think theres a perception that you have to be truly damaged to find yourself in counselling. but really i think everyone should have a counsellor. someone impartial to listen and offer advice. not a friend, an outsider who wont take your side automatically, nor put you down in a way a familiar face would.

have you been to counselling? would you go? do you feel theres a stigma attached to seeking help?

You might be projecting your own beliefs about stigma around counselling on to others and imagining they are judging you. I have never heard of any stigma attached to counselling why would there be?

Ferrari3600

I think in Ireland to some extent there is.

For as much as we like to criticise the Yanks on things they have the right idea on this particular issue.

It's almost a status symbol to have been through years of therapy in the likes of Hollywood, Manhattan, etc (maybe not so much in the Boondocks.)

The flying mouse

I went to counselling for two years and found it great, I did group and one to one sessions, Once your over the initial fear of actually getting there, it works wonders in getting it all out.

Never felt a stigma in going but then again its not something you be shouting out about, It worked for me and others I know but might not work for everyone.

eviltwin

Been many times and do it regularly now as a requirement of my job. No stigma as far as I can see. I don't see myself as damaged, I went to fix an emotional issue same way I'd go to the dentist if I had a problem with a tooth.

FortySeven

There is less stigma than misunderstanding. I am bipolar and work in a very working class, masculine environment. I got a lot of funny looks and strange questions but I find if you are open and honest most people accept it and even get an interest over time.

It's not easy and it can be embarrassing but you just have to rise above it.

Don't let perceived stigma delay getting help. Mental health issues are the largest killer if young men in Ireland.

On the plus side, the chief executive of my company was the last person I thought would understand (very old school) but he was very supportive.

Grayson

Like the OP I had a panic attack out of the blue. I'd jumped into freezing cold water and had the attack as a physical reaction to it. It's nasty. I had re-occurrences afterwards when I thought about the original panic attack. I went to a GP to get a prescription and got a therapist. I'm a very practical person. When it happened I figured I should just do something about it. I did and now I'm better.

Day Lewin

have you been to counselling? would you go? do you feel there's a stigma attached to seeking help?

Yes I have, sure I would, and Not at all.
Everybody does counselling these days, it's practically a fashion accessory.
If there is a death in the family, or you owe what you can't pay, or something unusual happens in the school or workplace, or you are not getting along with your Significant Other, people mutter "Counselling!" as a natural next step.

"Stigma" means a mark - as if people would point at you in the street and snigger in scorn. This does not happen. For goodness' sake, how would they even know?

Toots

I see a counsellor on a regular basis. I've always been very open about it, and why I go, however by that time I'd gotten to a point where I genuinely didn't give a st*t if people judged me about it. The way I looked at it was if me being open about it made it easier for someone else to talk about their mental health then it's a good thing.

Nobody has said anything about it to my face anyway, whether they talked about it behind my back I don't know.

Larbre34

Depending on the nature of the counselling, it can be revelatory for some folk and leave others unmoved. For me it was the latter. I prefer exercise and distractive escapism. No stigma though, its very mainstream.

Ave Sodalis

I think there's very little stigma attached now. Maybe amongst the older generations as it wasn't the done thing but there's been a huge push for improving mental health that's definitely taken away most judgement.

I've been. I found it utterly useless, and not at all for me. But I wasn't judged for going by friends or family (in fact, mum encouraged me to go), nor have I judged anyone for going. Sometimes people go just to tell someone about their day. Sometimes people go because of demons they can't get rid of. People also go for a whole spectrum of reasons in between, or for more than one reason. There's little point in judging. Not going doesn't make you tougher anymore than not going to the doc when you're sick or for a check up, and that's something I think society is really realising.

Maybe the perception of a stigma is considerably more widespread than the stigma itself.

Musefan

I would imagine that there is a stigma attached, but more so because counselling is seen as very much reactive rather than proactive and being in a therapy session usually means your difficulties are marked, and this is what builds stigma I imagine. However, where I disagree with the therapy culture in the US, is that long term therapy isn't the treatment of choice for many difficulties. For example, in relation to panic, a medium term CBT approach would be recommended. Same for depression, with different therapeutic approaches like mbct needed for times when you are well.

Crea

I went to a psychologist for a good number of months for anxiety attacks and general life issues. It was the best thing I ever did. My close friends and my family know I did.
My dad went to a psychologist too. Anxiety is a massive issue in older people and it helped him. I have huge admiration that he sought help because it has mafe a big difference to his life.
My husband needs to see someone as he has low level depression but doesn't like the talk therapy. It is hard as it drags up feelings we spend years trying to repress.
I know some people find the notion of thrapy strange or a bit self indulgent but if you have a genuine issue which affects your life then definitely do it.

Widdershins

I don't quite think there is stigma attached, it's just that some people view it as self indulgent and wallowing. Maybe a sign of weakness, yes.

I'd prefer to get advice than just pour my heart out so it's not for me. I do take anxiety pills and they're also seen as a sign of weakness. Often by people who don't have much to deal with, or people who take their stress out on others!

An acquaintance is a counsellor and commented that some of the stuff people whine about in sessions with her is pathetic. Made me wonder if there are many very false and unsympathetic people like her in that job, or if people really do take everything very seriously and dwell unnecessarily.

Robsweezie

Robsweezie wrote: »

but really i think everyone should have a counsellor. someone impartial to listen and offer advice. not a friend, an outsider who wont take your side automatically, nor put you down in a way a familiar face would.

I personally don't have any prejudice against anyone who would seek out a counsellor, and more so, I think it's a great thing that people in difficulty seek out help.

However, I do have a huge issue with some of the crack-pots out there who call themselves "counsellors" but actually have no verifiable skills and could do more harm than good.

The industry is notoriously unregulated (my understanding is that this is about to change and not before its time) but would caution against taking someone calling themselves a "physiotherapist" or "counsellor" at face value, without first ensuring they are properly qualified for the work they are about to undertake.

darlett

No question about it, there is a stigma to it for many in society.

Personally I think it's a brave thing to face up to problems and seek help and the risks of not doing so can be terrible. But pretending aside there's no doubt to me that less enlightened, old fashioned(though not necessarily old) sections of society still exist that would say OOOoooooh so and so had to see a shrink.

I think society as a whole is moving away from that, but not everyone moves at the same rate and some will never take the trip. But **** them. They have their challenges and limitations, we have ours. Do what you need to do.

Westeros

I've been to see a counsellor after losing someone very close to me earlier this year. About a month after their passing I started to encounter physical symptoms and after attending the doctor numerous times and saying to myself "there has to be more to this than just stress" I was referred to a counsellor for stress and anxiety.
When I spoke to other extended family members, two in particular told me "it's a waste of time, you'll come out worse than you go in, wouldn't even bother with it they're just people thinking they know the answer to all problems".
Anyway, I ignored that and attended the sessions. I found the sessions extremely helpful in my case and the results have been very positive - a complete turn around and I owe about 50% of that to the counselling sessions.
But I agree with OP on this, I feel there is a stigma around it. It's almost a gossiping point if people in your local area get wind of it (especially where I'm from).

Widdershins

I'd have more respect for someone who takes control of the situation and seeks help than someone who looks down their nose at people who do. Usually those people self medicate with wine.

tomwaterford

Widdershins wrote: »

I'd have more respect for someone who takes control of the situation and seeks help than someone who looks down their nose at people who do. Usually those people self medicate with wine.

I'd never ever look down the nose at people who seek help and go to counsellors etc



But I don't think I'd ever go myself either at the same time

Widdershins

tomwaterford wrote: »

I'd never ever look down the nose at people who seek help and go to counsellors etc



But I don't think I'd ever go myself either at the same time

Me neither. What about medication-do you feel the same about that?
Just wondering as for some it is a fear of being zombified, for others it's an admission of weakness

tomwaterford

Widdershins wrote: »

Me neither. What about medication-do you feel the same about that?
Just wondering as for some it is a fear of being zombified, for others it's an admission of weakness

If you are need it.... Take it... As prescribed..... But for many i suspect that gps who are somewhat overworked prescribe them as a stop gap that becomes a long term thing.....

There's a place in Kerry called glan Na gealt..... Roughly translated as madman's Glen..... Where they used send mad people to settlr/chil.... Springs around there are found to contain above the average levels of lithium (think it's that)
So they clearly have a place



But alas I know nowhere near enough on this and hopefully never will have to

bobbysands81

mariaalice wrote: »

You might be projecting your own beliefs about stigma around counselling on to others and imagining they are judging you. I have never heard of any stigma attached to counselling why would there be?

Seriously???

I've worked as a Counsellor in a major third level institution and currently work in a similar field and there is a massive stigma attached to Counselling and any sort of psychological issues.

I'm glad you think there isn't a stigma as the more people that think that way the easier it will be for people to seek help.

I have no doubt that the stigma is reducing but given the amount of people I see and the frequency I see them the overwhelming majority of my clients have some form of stigma in coming to see me.

Grayson

Widdershins wrote: »

Me neither. What about medication-do you feel the same about that?
Just wondering as for some it is a fear of being zombified, for others it's an admission of weakness

I never thought I would either. It just happens. There are always underlying reasons though. I got my first attack because of jumping into cold water, I kept getting them because of underlying stress. That stress had been there for ages and I was dealing with it but I found my outlets had gone and so the stress started manifesting itself in panic attacks.

As others said I think a lot of people, maybe even you, can benefit from therapy. It's all too often about getting the right tools for dealing with life rather than just headfirst tackling a problem.
Then again, there's no reason a regular person couldn't get similar benefits from taking up yoga, meditation and being a bit more introspective.

Robsweezie

Exactly. Part of the stigma may be the feeling of weakness in asking for help, and not being able to just help yourself and sort your own **** out , but sure aren't you helping yourself by getting the help?

I certainly felt a bit odd with the situation. I'd look around and feel inadequate, that somehow others were dealing with problems better than I was. I felt like the kid who needed extra help with maths at school. I was that kid too.

A friend actually confided in me about her depression and anxiety. She had been self harming for months, a short while before my own troubles. She too had been seeing someone.

To elaborate on my own situation, I began to feel the onset of depersonalisation. It can often be the result of an anxiety attack. It certainly was with me. There was a film made about it called numb starring Matthew Perry .

I felt I wasn't in my own body or mind. That a part of me died that night. I became obsessed with the thought that I wasn't the same person and never would be again, this further fueled the anxiety. I couldn't eat properly for a couple of days. I was pale and shaky. I'd feel a sense of impending doom.

It's the feeling of watching yourself act and feeling like an imposter. My words and actions weren't my own.

Cupcake_Crisis

Years back (when I was between 16-18) I suffered terribly with depression. My GP's reaction was to immediately put me on anti depressants, but I honestly couldn't fathom a future where I was dependant on a tablet to get through the day. So I found myself a counsellor who I saw once a week. It's the best thing I ever did as it gave me coping mechanisms outside of medication.

I do think there's a small stigma attached to it, but I think it's something we also build up in our own heads. I don't really care what other people have to do to make their lives more livable, and I'm sure most people are the same.

I'd really champion counselling as an alternative to medication for issues such as anxiety and depression, I feel like they're very complicated problems that can seldom be resolved by a prescription.

JupiterKid

There may be a stigma in availing of counselling, but it's much less now than, say, 20 odd years ago. I've been lots of times and it has really helped me.:)

Wibbs

sup_dude wrote: »

Maybe the perception of a stigma is considerably more widespread than the stigma itself.

This. Sure there is still the "stigma" attached and it can certainly vary with age group and even background. Among your D4 yummy mummy set with chardonnay habits and difficult cases of chronic healthiness it's damn near a rite of passage, but might be viewed differently on a building site.

As for the efficacy of the discipline, from what I've observed it's extremely dependant on the quality of the therapist and they vary all over the place(and not just among the quacks with no qualifications). It also seems to be extremely dependent on the patient and their receptiveness to it. Some of the studies into particularly therapies can be laughably lax and there's also an element of "fashion" to it. Mindfulness being the couture de jour. Nevertheless if it helps people, even if it's down to a placebo effect then that's what counts. Though like previously mentioned I'd not like to see society go down the Manhattanite style therapy for life stuff. I'd personally see that as extremely self indulgent and self obsessive and IMH in many will do more harm than good. The people that self identify as somehow "broken" and wear that as a major thread in their personal narrative.

Ave Sodalis

Wibbs wrote:

The people that self identify as somehow "broken" and wear that as a major thread in their personal narrative.

This is an extremely dangerous way of thinking too, and one I find seeping into Ireland rapidly too. Quite a while back I mentioned on one of the threads on depression that I managed to rid myself of depression and all the responces were along the lines of "you couldn't have, you're just kidding yourself, you can't get rid of depression" with some even getting angry/insulted at the idea of curing depression. People build an identity on it.
There was an article wrote recently (I can't remember by who) in which the author was worried about the emerging trend of idolising depression and suicidal thoughts, turning it into something that is who someone is, rather than what someone has.

With regard the effectiveness of counselling, I think it also depends on how the person works. The types of therapy are quite limited, and none of them work for me.

CPSW

I used to think there was, in the past I would have seen it as a sign of "weakness", how wrong and ignorant I was.

I paid a visit to a councillor once a week for a month, earlier this year after a difficult period in my life with a lot of things all happening at once and was finding it difficult to cope with everything. Local GP referred me.

Felt reluctant at first, but after opening up and talking (something that I never did before), my attitude has totally been changed and now have a different perspective on not only councillors but people who attend sessions. Glad I did it and have come out a better person for doing it. It was and always is good to talk to someone.

Wibbs

sup_dude wrote: »

People build an identity on it.

Exactly. The diagnosis comes as an understandable relief, but can all too easily become a self definition and even a source of comfort, especially when shared with others with the same label. As a social animal we naturally find comfort in those like us, especially if we can establish a them and us dynamic(and you going off script as you described shows this quite well). For me this aspect of some mental illnesses is not focused on nearly enough. With eating disorders such "communities of suffering" are recognised as being toxic, pro ana websites and the like, but IMHO a similar gaze should be turned to other mental illness communities of suffering.

There was an article wrote recently (I can't remember by who) in which the author was worried about the emerging trend of idolising depression and suicidal thoughts, turning it into something that is who someone is, rather than what someone has.

It would concern me too.

With regard the effectiveness of counselling, I think it also depends on how the person works. The types of therapy are quite limited, and none of them work for me.

I suppose it's like many medical therapies, individual responses can vary. Plus a therapy can work extremely well in the short term, but can start to have a rebound effect in the long term. I recall reading of fairly decent research(for a nice change) that showed in cases of PSTD short term, couple of sessions therapy was very helpful, but the more the sessions went on the worse the outcome became.

bobbysands81

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Seriously???

I've worked as a Counsellor in a major third level institution and currently work in a similar field and there is a massive stigma attached to Counselling and any sort of psychological issues.

I'm glad you think there isn't a stigma as the more people that think that way the easier it will be for people to seek help.

I have no doubt that the stigma is reducing but given the amount of people I see and the frequency I see them the overwhelming majority of my clients have some form of stigma in coming to see me.

The person is judging themselves and rather that accept that they extrapolate this on to other and say others are judging or stigmatising them.
It is possibility a coping mechanism and or the person seeking help often have very negative views of themselves and a perception of judgement or stigma is part of this.

Insight in to ones self is the key to solving a lot.

Widdershins

sup_dude wrote: »

This is an extremely dangerous way of thinking too, and one I find seeping into Ireland rapidly too. Quite a while back I mentioned on one of the threads on depression that I managed to rid myself of depression and all the responces were along the lines of "you couldn't have, you're just kidding yourself, you can't get rid of depression" with some even getting angry/insulted at the idea of curing depression. People build an identity on it.
There was an article wrote recently (I can't remember by who) in which the author was worried about the emerging trend of idolising depression and suicidal thoughts, turning it into something that is who someone is, rather than what someone has.

With regard the effectiveness of counselling, I think it also depends on how the person works. The types of therapy are quite limited, and none of them work for me.

I've heard someone call depression a lifelong illness. Very discouraging.

Grayson

Widdershins wrote: »

I've heard someone call depression a lifelong illness. Very discouraging.

It depends on how they phrase it. I think people can get over it but they can also relapse. So even people who get better need to keep tabs on their mental well being. Think of it like alcoholism. You can stop drinking and get your life together but that doesn't mean it's a smart thing to start drinking again. Alcoholics are aware of this and are aware of the things that may trigger a desire to drink.

Likewise someone who's had issues like depression and/or anxiety should be aware of the fact that they are vulnerable to a relapse. And being aware of this makes you far less likely to have a relapse.

I think it's the scariest thing about a mental illness like that. You have to realise that this isn't like a cold that you get over an never have again. It's more like a cold virus that could reemerge again. but as you get better you realise that it won't if you take certain measures.

Widdershins

Grayson wrote: »

It depends on how they phrase it. I think people can get over it but they can also relapse. So even people who get better need to keep tabs on their mental well being. Think of it like alcoholism. You can stop drinking and get your life together but that doesn't mean it's a smart thing to start drinking again. Alcoholics are aware of this and are aware of the things that may trigger a desire to drink.

Likewise someone who's had issues like depression and/or anxiety should be aware of the fact that they are vulnerable to a relapse. And being aware of this makes you far less likely to have a relapse.

I think it's the scariest thing about a mental illness like that. You have to realise that this isn't like a cold that you get over an never have again. It's more like a cold virus that could reemerge again. but as you get better you realise that it won't if you take certain measures.

Yes, I just thought phrasing it that way was defeatist.

Ave Sodalis

Grayson wrote: »

It depends on how they phrase it. I think people can get over it but they can also relapse. So even people who get better need to keep tabs on their mental well being. Think of it like alcoholism. You can stop drinking and get your life together but that doesn't mean it's a smart thing to start drinking again. Alcoholics are aware of this and are aware of the things that may trigger a desire to drink.

Likewise someone who's had issues like depression and/or anxiety should be aware of the fact that they are vulnerable to a relapse. And being aware of this makes you far less likely to have a relapse.

I think it's the scariest thing about a mental illness like that. You have to realise that this isn't like a cold that you get over an never have again. It's more like a cold virus that could reemerge again. but as you get better you realise that it won't if you take certain measures.

Maybe for some people and I can't speak for anyone else, but certainly not for me. It was easy to slip into, it was a hard struggle to get out of. Depression is horrid, and every ounce of me never wants to experience it again. That was years ago and I haven't felt depressed since. I very much doubt I will again, and if I do, it would be unrelated to the first time. I think if I lingered on the thought that "it's gonna happen again and again and there's nothing I can do about it" like a coldsore, then I'm not surprise people relapse. What a horribly depressing thought.

What you tell people has a huge effect on their mental health too, which is why unregulated counselling is so worrying. If you keep telling someone they're fat, they'll end up believing they're fat. If you keep telling someone they're ugly, they'll end up believing they're ugly. The worst thing about depression is there's little difference between believing and being. If you keep telling someone they're depressed, or they'll end up with depression, is it any wonder they'll end up depressed? If you keep telling someone they'll never not be depressed, they most likely will end up that way.

Grayson

sup_dude wrote: »

Maybe for some people and I can't speak for anyone else, but certainly not for me. It was easy to slip into, it was a hard struggle to get out of. Depression is horrid, and every ounce of me never wants to experience it again. That was years ago and I haven't felt depressed since. I very much doubt I will again, and if I do, it would be unrelated to the first time. I think if I lingered on the thought that "it's gonna happen again and again and there's nothing I can do about it" like a coldsore, then I'm not surprise people relapse. What a horribly depressing thought.

What you tell people has a huge effect on their mental health too, which is why unregulated counselling is so worrying. If you keep telling someone they're fat, they'll end up believing they're fat. If you keep telling someone they're ugly, they'll end up believing they're ugly. The worst thing about depression is there's little difference between believing and being. If you keep telling someone they're depressed, or they'll end up with depression, is it any wonder they'll end up depressed? If you keep telling someone they'll never not be depressed, they most likely will end up that way.

It's not that they'll never not be depressed, although for some that might be the truth*, it's that this is part of you and it could happen again. If you take the right measures it will never happen again but you do need to take those measures and be wary. If you take those measures you will stay happy (or at least non depressed) and have nothing to worry about. It's simply like reminding yourself to dress warm before going out to the cold. Ignoring could be far worse.
Thing is that you might have already taken these steps and built them into the way you live. I found there were certain things that caused me anxiety so I took care of them. I'm not about to let them cause me issues in the future so I continue to deal with them when they crop up and don't let them build up. I'm definitely healthier mentally after the anxiety than I was beforehand.


*There are very few people this is true for. For them though with regular therapy and the proper meds it can be alleviated. They are just unfortunate that they have a particular brain chemistry that makes it so. For everyone else it's an unfortunate phase that they pass through.

Wibbs

sup_dude wrote: »

What you tell people has a huge effect on their mental health too, which is why unregulated counselling is so worrying. If you keep telling someone they're fat, they'll end up believing they're fat. If you keep telling someone they're ugly, they'll end up believing they're ugly. The worst thing about depression is there's little difference between believing and being. If you keep telling someone they're depressed, or they'll end up with depression, is it any wonder they'll end up depressed?

Aye, it's almost like reverse CBT.

Grayson

Wibbs wrote: »

Aye, it's almost like reverse CBT.

TBC? To be continued?

Robsweezie

Grayson wrote: »

It depends on how they phrase it. I think people can get over it but they can also relapse. So even people who get better need to keep tabs on their mental well being. Think of it like alcoholism. You can stop drinking and get your life together but that doesn't mean it's a smart thing to start drinking again. Alcoholics are aware of this and are aware of the things that may trigger a desire to drink.

Likewise someone who's had issues like depression and/or anxiety should be aware of the fact that they are vulnerable to a relapse. And being aware of this makes you far less likely to have a relapse.

I think it's the scariest thing about a mental illness like that. You have to realise that this isn't like a cold that you get over an never have again. It's more like a cold virus that could reemerge again. but as you get better you realise that it won't if you take certain measures.

yep, mental health is an ongoing thing. theres no quick fix, it requires maintenance. counselling felt like a ''top up'', like, to use trivial examples, filling up the car with petrol or cleaning the house.

Ave Sodalis

Grayson wrote:

It's not that they'll never not be depressed, although for some that might be the truth*, it's that this is part of you and it could happen again. If you take the right measures it will never happen again but you do need to take those measures and be wary. If you take those measures you will stay happy (or at least non depressed) and have nothing to worry about. It's simply like reminding yourself to dress warm before going out to the cold. Ignoring could be far worse. Thing is that you might have already taken these steps and built them into the way you live. I found there were certain things that caused me anxiety so I took care of them. I'm not about to let them cause me issues in the future so I continue to deal with them when they crop up and don't let them build up. I'm definitely healthier mentally after the anxiety than I was beforehand.

With respect, I don't think you can say with certainty that that is for everyone. Depression is quite an individual thing. What works for one, may not work for another. Similarly, what one person may need, another does not. I didn't (and don't) have to take steps to avoid depression. It's not even something I think about unless discussing the topic.
Some people have to take steps, some people don't and I think it's entirely unfair on those that don't to be putting pressure on them to take steps they don't need. It makes it seem like depression can never been fully cured, only managed if you stick to these steps but always lurking in the background. It can be cured, fully, without it continuing to have some control over your life.

Boggy Turf

There certainly was a stigma but, like everything else in our lives, we have become Americanised and the stigma is going away quite quickly.

Robsweezie

Boggy Turf wrote:

There certainly was a stigma but, like everything else in our lives, we have become Americanised and the stigma is going away quite quickly.

Certainly in American media it's become almost glamorous to have a therapist/shrink.