Can negative traits be learned?

A.mechanic

A thought just crossed my mind as I've been contemplating my future where I work.
I get on well with all my coworkers, supervisors and guys I supervise, and in my opinion, a fairly decent and hardworking guy.

I'm always the one being asked to fill in for my supervisors when they are on travel or holidays yet when permanent promotions come up, im passed over for less qualified and less experienced guys.

And the only reason I'm thinking of is because I'm so busy doing a good job, I'm paying no attention to playing the politics going on around me, and letting the principle of keeping the head down and work hard and you'll get ahead, which was the way I was brought up, get in the way?

If I do start playing the politics game, is it someyhing that can be learned by someone who it isn't natural for? Can a person that isn't naturally a backstabber become one?

And if so....should they?

Peregrinus

If you think that office politics, and positioning yourself for advancement, simply consists of "negative traits" and "backstabbing", there's your problem right there. Just as marketing your goods is not mainly about trashing your competitor's goods, so marketing your qualities as an employee deserving of advancement is not mainly about trashing your fellow employees.

If it's your impression that to get advancement you need to attack your colleagues then, no, don't do that. It's unlikely to secure you advancement and it will damage your relationship with your colleagues. Possibly you need some advice or guidance on your career development and what you can do to make your many merits more obvious to those who make promotion decisions. Career coaching as a service exists; it might be worth lashing out a few shillings on a couple of sessions with such a person.

Your Face

Well a warning would be that politics can be a nasty business.
However, if you are hardworking and expected to cover your supervisor while getting passed over for promotion - its sounds like you're being taking advantage of.
I more or less created my current role within my company. Its a good job but it wasn't just the hard work that got me into this position.
Playing politics doesn't have to mean trashing your colleagues, it can mean just promoting yourself and the good work you do

SeantheMan

Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely

_Brian

Why would you need to become a backstabber to become a supervisor ??

Really, the job is just to manage people according to the company policy, these policies will be different in different companies but that's the job.
Being a decent people person will ease the task considerably when there are problems.

Being a backstabber as employee, supervisor or manager is a trait that will not help but hinder your capability to get things done.

Skyfarm

Many a young chicken strutted into the after hours coop,full of the swagger of chickendom,not long after they emerged as snarling cockerels ready to bite and swipe at nasty hippy sweating liberals.

The answer is yes...

Colser

Seemingly you have to "play the game"..hard work isn't rewarded in most cases imo.

seamus

There was a guy on the Work forum with a series of threads & posts about how he was a great worker, smarter than everyone else, but was continually overlooked for promotion or getting "forced out" of jobs.

He believed that this was entirely because people only advanced if they licked boots and played the game and became horrible people. He was unable to see how his toxic attitude was hindering his own progress - he convinced himself that when he came into conflict with people, it was because he was just telling it as it is and refusing to be a "yes man".

The only "politics" one needs to play to get on well in a work environment is to not be a dick and show a tiny bit of initiative.

Effects

SeantheMan wrote: »

Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely

Thanks Spiderman!

fryup

Can negative traits be learned? certainly

pre-celtic tiger we we're probably the most negative race in western europe, it was hereditary

sbsquarepants

"Success" means different things to different people - I see people here in my job, who earn double, some even triple what I do, but I don't envy them, I wouldn't swap places, not in a million years. I don't see them and think jesus I'd love to be that successful, I think what a fúcking waste of a life. Being a workaholic is as bad as being an alcoholic.
I earn well enough to pay my way and I won't be falling over with a stress induced heart attack or stroke, as has actually happened a couple of people I know!

HellSquirrel

fryup wrote: »

Can negative traits be learned? certainly

pre-celtic tiger we we're probably the most negative race in western europe, it was hereditary

...Whut?

Grayson

seamus wrote: »

There was a guy on the Work forum with a series of threads & posts about how he was a great worker, smarter than everyone else, but was continually overlooked for promotion or getting "forced out" of jobs.

He believed that this was entirely because people only advanced if they licked boots and played the game and became horrible people. He was unable to see how his toxic attitude was hindering his own progress - he convinced himself that when he came into conflict with people, it was because he was just telling it as it is and refusing to be a "yes man".

The only "politics" one needs to play to get on well in a work environment is to not be a dick and show a tiny bit of initiative.

Politics does play a part. I've seen inept people get promoted because they're friends with people who are higher up. Sometimes they're not even friends, just "friendly". If you're not in with the right people this can hurt your chances. Although as someone else mentioned it's not about being nasty either. You don't need to be back stabbing, just make sure that you are noticed and you get praise for every little thing you do. It doesn't matter how good you are at your job if the right people don't think you are.

The_Valeyard

Of course negative traits can be learned.

Children are a great example. Tabula Rasa.


Children arent born with bigotry, hatred etc, its learned by observing their society, parents, family, friends.

Naturally this would also follow into the work place and people pick up other traits and quirks.

sbsquarepants

seamus wrote: »

The only "politics" one needs to play to get on well in a work environment is to not be a dick and show a tiny bit of initiative.

I think it largely depends on where you work to be honest. Possibly large "properly run" multinationals and the likes function as meritocracies but a smaller concern, particularly the family run types could be entirely down to your surname, or where you're from, or any equally meritless bullshít.

Where I work the owners family walk in and out of jobs with alarming regularity, taking years off here and there to do whatever, and then sauntering back in as if nothing has happened.
One was even parachuted in, completely out of his depth as the CEO, almost caused the demise of the whole company. In fairness to him he wasn't the worst and he realised fairly quickly he was in over his head and brought in an outside hatchet man as operations director to do the job for him - the guy had an attitude problem, was a total prick and a complete chancer, the owners son jacked up after about 18 months on the verge of a nervous breakdown, leaving his henchman behind (who at this stage had alienated the entire company more or less). Without any support he lasted about 3 months before he moved on to "pursue a new challenge" in fúcking Uzbekistan or some place like that, I kid you no!. Leaving an absolute trail of destruction and bad blood behind him.
It's been a completely different company since then!

Every cloud has a silver lining though - I was so pissed off with the place that I was looking elsewhere and when we got very busy I didn't give a shít and point blank refused to do anything extra unless they paid me a lot more, which to my surprise they did.
2 or 3 years earlier I probably would have done it for free out of a sense of duty almost.

A.mechanic

Ok i will admit that backstabbing was the wrong term to use in this situation though the first time i was passed over it was after doing the post in a temporary for several months and the manager that passed me over was one that i didnt get on with, so in that instance i feel that i was stabved in the back.

Maybe a more appropriate term I should have used is being a yes man, which i will admit to not being as i tell it how it is. Sometimes the answer will be a yes othertimes a no, but it is the truth.

And as for showing initiative, I'm the guy they come to when troubleshooting is needed so i show initiative in droves as far as i can see. But as for playing politics, I never thought that I would need to, believing that my efforts would speak for themselves, and now it feels that I'm being extremely naive about that.

Peregrinus

I think a key fact to grasp here is that being good at the technical and practical aspects of the job is not the key quality you need in a manager. If you work in a company that makes widgets, being the person who makes the best or most widgets is not a quality that will get you promoted to a position where you have authority over others. Your people skills are what matter. Can you manage people? Can you motivate them? If you're not outstandingly good at making widgets that doesn't matter hugely, so long as you can identify people who are, and you can organise and motivate them to make widgets.

I know nothing at all about your people skills, A.Mechanic, so this is not directed at you personally. But very often when someone talks about not being yes man, or about observing that others play politics while they themselves do not, what they are actually doing is describing the exercise by others of people skills which those others possess, but they themselves do not possess and do not really understand.

And, if someone doesn't have people skills or the capacity to develop them, being promoted into a position which requires people skills is a curse disguised as a blessing. If you haven't got the required skills and can't develop them, you will not perform well in the job. And if you don't appreciate that you haven't got the skills, you will not know why are underperforming, which makes for frustration, misery, loss of confidence in oneself, even paranoia.

There are careers and organisations where there is room for the "rocket scientist" - the guy who is really, really good at what he does and is well paid for it, whose expertise is acknowledged and admired, but who cannot manage people and is not expected to. If what I'm saying here bears any relationship at all to your own situation - and I'm not saying that it does - then maybe your career planning should focus on working towards such a role.

Again, a spot of career coaching might help you here.

I think peregrinus has summed it up very nicely there