Downgraded to manslaughter from murder query

hawkelady

Hi , I'm wondering what would be the specifics regarding a case that the accused , six of them, were originally charged with murder only after a couple of weeks into the trial they accept a lesser charge of manslaughter. It's in the news .
I'm wondering why it happened as could it be the accused realised during the trial that things were looking bad for them so they say we'll accept a lesser charge. Why would the prosecution agree to this if they thought that they had a solid case.

Just curious

johnnyskeleton

Presumably for some reason based on the evidence the DPP felt manslaughter was a fair and just verdict.

Del2005

hawkelady wrote: »

Hi , I'm wondering what would be the specifics regarding a case that the accused , six of them, were originally charged with murder only after a couple of weeks into the trial they accept a lesser charge of manslaughter. It's in the news .
I'm wondering why it happened as could it be the accused realised during the trial that things were looking bad for them so they say we'll accept a lesser charge. Why would the prosecution agree to this if they thought that they had a solid case.

Just curious

Proving something beyond reasonable doubt is extremely difficult.

coylemj

This incident was unplanned/unpremeditated, whatever you like so I think well below the required standard for murder. In all probability the best the prosecution could hope for was a verdict of manslaughter from the jury so if the accused pleaded guilty to that, I can see that they would accept the pleas.

Public brawl, one guy gets killed, very difficult to get six murder convictions out of that.

NUTLEY BOY

Also, remember that in murder cases a defendant may enter an early plea of guilty to manslaughter but not guilty of murder.

In some cases the DPP will accept that plea and the matter is disposed of as manslaughter. In some case the DPP will refuse the plea and proceed with the murder charge. If acquitted of murder but found guilty of manslaughter that goes well in mitigation of severity of sentence.

coylemj

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

If acquitted of murder but found guilty of manslaughter that goes well in mitigation of severity of sentence.

It 'goes well' relative to what? Surely if you plead 'not guilty' to murder and the jury convicts you of manslaughter, you should get a heavier sentence than if you pleaded guilty to manslaughter from the outset.

Pleading not guilty to the charge of murder with no plea on manslaughter is inviting the jury to acquit you and send you home. If they then convict you of manslaughter, you should get a heavier sentence relative to (for example) a co-accused who pleaded guilty to manslaughter at the outset.

ohnonotgmail

coylemj wrote: »

It 'goes well' relative to what? Surely if you plead 'not guilty' to murder and the jury convicts you of manslaughter, you should get a heavier sentence than if you pleaded guilty to manslaughter from the outset.

Pleading not guilty to the charge of murder with no plea on manslaughter is inviting the jury to acquit you and send you home. If they then convict you of manslaughter, you should get a heavier sentence relative to (for example) a co-accused who pleaded guilty to manslaughter at the outset.

I think you misunderstood the post. the piece you quoted is out of context.

coylemj

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I think you misunderstood the post. the piece you quoted is out of context.

On mature reflection, I see your point.....

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

If acquitted of murder but found guilty of manslaughter that goes well in mitigation of severity of sentence.

but for clarity I would replace 'that' with 'the earlier plea of guilty of manslaughter' so it would read ....

If acquitted of murder but found guilty of manslaughter, the earlier plea of guilty of manslaughter goes well in mitigation of severity of sentence.

NUTLEY BOY

If it pleases the boardsies I rephrase myself.

D is charged with murder, pleads not guilty and contests the case.

D could put in an early plea of guilty of manslaughter.

In the event of acquittal on murder the early plea of guilty to manslaughter should earn D a lighter sentence.

hullaballoo

You're still missing the bit where D is tried for murder notwithstanding the plea to manslaughter... then acquitted of the murder but convicted of the lesser charge etc.

Just to set out the steps more fully.

4ensic15

hawkelady wrote: »

Hi , I'm wondering what would be the specifics regarding a case that the accused , six of them, were originally charged with murder only after a couple of weeks into the trial they accept a lesser charge of manslaughter. It's in the news .
I'm wondering why it happened as could it be the accused realised during the trial that things were looking bad for them so they say we'll accept a lesser charge. Why would the prosecution agree to this if they thought that they had a solid case.

Just curious

They may realise from the evidence that they are not going to get a murder verdict. Continuing a trial in those circumstances would be a waste of time and money. By accepting a plea the possibility of an appeal is eliminated. There is always the possibility that some ruling by the trial judge or his directions to the jury may be open to question. Accepting a plea avoids any argument about this on appeal. The prosecution must also be alert to the possibility of jury intimidation or witness intimidation. Taking a plea means that they get half the loaf rather than no bread at all.

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

If acquitted of murder but found guilty of manslaughter that goes well in mitigation of severity of sentence.

The sentence for murder is mandatory but for manslaughter is discretionary. If convicted of murder there is no possibility of introducing mitigating factors at the sentencing stage. If convicted of manslaughter, mitigating factors can be introduced. It is highly relevant as to the weight to be given to it, whether there was a guilty plea and at what stage it was entered.