Alternative weanling feed

jd06

Hi all
I bought supreme thrive weakling mix 240/t 16 pc. I only feed 1kg per day to keep them ticking over. Silage might n be top quality.
Any other alternatives for 25 wean Approx

GrasstoMilk

jd06 wrote: »

Hi all
I bought supreme thrive weakling mix 240/t 16 pc. I only feed 1kg per day to keep them ticking over. Silage might n be top quality.
Any other alternatives for 25 wean Approx

Barley and soya
70/30 mix
Simple and as good as anything you'll buy

Bass Reeves

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Barley and soya
70/30 mix
Simple and as good as anything you'll buy

Protein would be very high at 25%. A lot of poor quality barley around this year. What is in the super thrive weakling mix from the name of it I think it might be a weak mix.:o

15% soya will give you 19% protein and 10% will give you 16.7%P. Make sure to give Minerals if you are home mixing and I would use limestone flour as well(calcium) both at about 20grams/100kg

I would use maize instead of barley unless I was saw loads of flour in the rolled barley.

blue5000

If the silage is poor, the extra protein in the ration will be wanted. The total diet for weanlings needs to be around 16% cp. Don't forget there is probably 15% moisture in the ration as well as whatever water is in the silage.

Bass Reeves

Op seem to be only feeding 1kg yes maybe going for a high P mix might be an option. However much more important is to vits mins and calcium into them, More than likely his existing mix has only 3% min. or 30 grams/day/head I really be giving right amount of Minerals and I give calcium flour as well before I would worry about P

jd06

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Protein would be very high at 25%. A lot of poor quality barley around this year. What is in the super thrive weakling mix from the name of it I think it might be a weak mix.:o

15% soya will give you 19% protein and 10% will give you 16.7%P. Make sure to give Minerals if you are home mixing and I would use limestone flour as well(calcium) both at about 20grams/100kg

I would use maize instead of barley unless I was saw loads of flour in the rolled barley.

That's the print out. What do ye think

freedominacup

jd06 wrote: »

That's the print out. What do ye think

Not seeing the entire label.

_Brian

I think Grasstomilk hit on an important point..

You need to be thinking of the whole diet composition.. If you feel the silage isnt the best then its likely 1kg of your mix will give minimal results..

You need to get your silage tested...

Then you need to work out the overall consumption of the animals based on their weight...

Only then will you know how much you need to supplement your animals for X growth..

Nothing as bad as weanlings that come out after a long expensive winter looking and weighing very little different than when they went in...


Regarding protein you need to be hitting just the right amount into the diet, too little and your missing on growth potential at an important stage in the animals life... Too much and you're literally having them piiss away money as protein isn't stored but rather passed out in urine.

FeelTheBern

Have mixture of weanling and 1 1/2 yo heifers in a yard. Want to make sure the weanlings getting good enough feeding for growth as hoping to bull in Spring. Haven't any way of managing bulk feed so buying small bags. Would prefer to use nuts but local co-op only does 16% protein feed as crunch in small bags - getting bout 1.5 to 2 kg per day.

Know level of feeding depends on silage quality etc but anyway looking at label yesterday and wondering how good a feed it is - if wasn't great would travel maybe to get 16% nuts in small bags if could find it.

Order of ingredients on label are:-
Rolled barley, dried (sugar) beer pulp, rolled beans, flaked maize, rapeseed meal, sunflower seed mix, cane molasses and corn gluten meal.

Any thoughts?? Thanks

mahoney_j

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Barley and soya
70/30 mix
Simple and as good as anything you'll buy

Too much ****e barley around this year and that mix will have no vitimans + minerals .also 30% soya will give mid 20s protein

Brown Podzol

blue5000 wrote: »

If the silage is poor, the extra protein in the ration will be wanted. The total diet for weanlings needs to be around 16% cp. Don't forget there is probably 15% moisture in the ration as well as whatever water is in the silage.

Should be calculated as grammes of protein per head per day, so you should really know the % protein of the silage. A growing animal is recommended to get 14% protein of the overall diet and will eat c. 2% of body weight in dry matter terms per day. So a 300kg animal will consume 6kg dm per day so needs 840 grammes of protein,14% of 6kg. If you decide to feed 2kg meal then they will eat 4kg silage dm. Say silage 12% protein, that's 480 grammes protein so you now need 360 grammes from the meal. 2kg meal at 18% protein will give that amount. For simplicity I have used meal at 100% dm.

FeelTheBern

Brown Podzol wrote: »

blue5000 wrote: »

If the silage is poor, the extra protein in the ration will be wanted. The total diet for weanlings needs to be around 16% cp. Don't forget there is probably 15% moisture in the ration as well as whatever water is in the silage.

Should be calculated as grammes of protein per head per day, so you should really know the % protein of the silage. A growing animal is recommended to get 14% protein of the overall diet and will eat c. 2% of body weight in dry matter terms per day. So a 300kg animal will consume 6kg dm per day so needs 840 grammes of protein,14% of 6kg. If you decide to feed 2kg meal then they will eat 4kg silage dm. Say silage 12% protein, that's 480 grammes protein so you now need 360 grammes from the meal. 2kg meal at 18% protein will give that amount. For simplicity I have used meal at 100% dm.

Thanks for explaining science behind it. Feeding bales that were made at different times so would be mixed - haven't analysed but feeding that bunch best of what I have anyway.

Aside from looking at levels of feeding - does the feed make up itself look reasonable?

Good loser

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Op seem to be only feeding 1kg yes maybe going for a high P mix might be an option. However much more important is to vits mins and calcium into them, More than likely his existing mix has only 3% min. or 30 grams/day/head I really be giving right amount of Minerals and I give calcium flour as well before I would worry about P

For 1.5 kg /head/day are you sure vits/mins required?

Have never seen any studies to that effect.

freedominacup

FeelTheBern wrote: »

Thanks for explaining science behind it. Feeding bales that were made at different times so would be mixed - haven't analysed but feeding that bunch best of what I have anyway.

Aside from looking at levels of feeding - does the feed make up itself look reasonable?

It's as good an off the shelf mix as I've seen.

Edit. Not sure what sunflower seed mix is but it should be a small part of the mix based on where it is in the list.

Sam Kade

Back when the sugar factory was still in operation I used to feed weanlings Brewers grains and beet pulp it was like rocket fuel to them. Beet would also be great feeding for weanlings.

50HX

what about 1.5kg nuts as above and 0.5kg of soya bean (46%CP) per day or would it scour them

Bass Reeves

Good loser wrote: »

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Op seem to be only feeding 1kg yes maybe going for a high P mix might be an option. However much more important is to vits mins and calcium into them, More than likely his existing mix has only 3% min. or 30 grams/day/head I really be giving right amount of Minerals and I give calcium flour as well before I would worry about P

For 1.5 kg /head/day are you sure vits/mins required?

Have never seen any studies to that effect.

In general rations are 2.5-3% minerals. That is 25-30/kg of ration fed. Cattle need to be
fed about 20 grams(of a good mineral mix some state 25grams) / 100kg LW. At housing most weanlings I have are about 280-300/kgs average With weanlings that weight you need to be feeding 50-60grams/head. I think OP was feeding only 1kg/head. It might seem to be a small thing but with quality of rations around I prefer to have rate of mins right and feed calcium before I be upping or feeding that rate of minerals. After that I would try to balance protein of total feed. Then feed the best of your silage to your weanlings

Cavanjack

Is there anything to be said for just storing weanlings on middling silage for the winter?

gerryirl

As some posters said above test your silage first. you could be wasting your time at 1kg. I got away last year with that but I had super silage not so good this year. I started feeding weanlings the last few years and found it great when letting them out before that there was always a few weak lads.You have right good stores in the back end if you have plenty of grass. I have one lad this year not eating meal and you'd not believe how far he is behind the rest of them even at this stage. Im using Aurivio super weanling crunch. cant fault it. well apart from the price. :D

Welding Rod

I buy dairy follower ration. 20% protein with soya as the protein source.
I feed it to bulls and heifers. Great to grow frame. Grass men are looking for frame. They aren't keen on paying for flesh out of sheds which falls off the cattle in the first 3 weeks at grass. They pay for frame and discount the flesh.

tanko

Anyone got an opinion on the following ration

Crude protein 15%, crude fibre 9.69%, crude oil + fat 2.5%, crude ash 6.1%,
moisture 15%, sodium 0.3%, magnesium ??? %

Composition
Rolled barley, maize gluten feed, rolled beans, beet pulp nuts, soya hulls, EU rapeseed meal, flaked maize, dried distillers grain, cane molasses, magnesium oxide, calcium carbonate, sodium chloride, mondicalcium phosphate,
Vitamins A, D3 and E.

Trace elements
Iodine, cobalt, copper, manganese, zinc and selenium.

charolais0153

tanko wrote: »

Anyone got an opinion on the following ration

Crude protein 15%, crude fibre 9.69%, crude oil + fat 2.5%, crude ash 6.1%,
moisture 15%, sodium 0.3%, magnesium ??? %

Composition
Rolled barley, maize gluten feed, rolled beans, beet pulp nuts, soya hulls, EU rapeseed meal, flaked maize, dried distillers grain, cane molasses, magnesium oxide, calcium carbonate, sodium chloride, mondicalcium phosphate,
Vitamins A, D3 and E.

Trace elements
Iodine, cobalt, copper, manganese, zinc and selenium.

Too low protein

gerryirl

tanko wrote: »

Anyone got an opinion on the following ration

Crude protein 15%, crude fibre 9.69%, crude oil + fat 2.5%, crude ash 6.1%,
moisture 15%, sodium 0.3%, magnesium ??? %

Composition
Rolled barley, maize gluten feed, rolled beans, beet pulp nuts, soya hulls, EU rapeseed meal, flaked maize, dried distillers grain, cane molasses, magnesium oxide, calcium carbonate, sodium chloride, mondicalcium phosphate,
Vitamins A, D3 and E.

Trace elements
Iodine, cobalt, copper, manganese, zinc and selenium.

thats very similar to mine. Ive 16% protien and 8.2 crude fibre

_Brian

Cavanjack wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for just storing weanlings on middling silage for the winter?

I don't think so, 3-4 months lost growth is money lost as your glfeeding them for no gain, if they're not gaining they're not earning so what's the point in having them ?

larthehar

gerryirl wrote: »

thats very similar to mine. Ive 16% protien and 8.2 crude fibre

IMO, less is more.. a lot of the ingredients there are what one might call second class.. GOOD barley, maize meal and soya bean meal are the three silver bullets.. Barley, soyabean meal and minerals for weanlings balanced to 16/17% protein. Protein in the key to grow the frame.
For finishing, all three balanced to 13/14% protein with energy (UFL) close to or greater than 1... energy is what is needed to finish.

Muckit

Cavanjack wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for just storing weanlings on middling silage for the winter?

Nothing wrong with it at all. It actually makes more sense than feeding heavy with meal. Compensatory growth will beat any day in the shed feeding meal hands down. Yes you have a heavier weanling at the end of the winter, but the lads that weren't fed will quickly catch up with their fed comrades before the end of the following summer. This isn't just sh*t I'm spouting. Numerous Teagasc trials done on it.

IF a lad had excellent silage (>70DMD), he would get it hard to justify giving more than 0.5 kg/hd/day of meal and see a return. It's so important to make good quality silage.

But you have fair quality silage. You could feed 1kg/hd/day. Ration should be better value this year.

_Brian

Muckit wrote: »

Nothing wrong with it at all. It actually makes more sense than feeding heavy with meal. Compensatory growth will beat any day in the shed feeding meal hands down. Yes you have a heavier weanling at the end of the winter, but the lads that weren't fed will quickly catch up with their fed comrades before the end of the following summer. This isn't just sh*t I'm spouting. Numerous Teagasc trials done on it.

IF a lad had excellent silage (>70DMD), he would get it hard to justify giving more than 0.5 kg/hd/day of meal and see a return. It's so important to make good quality silage.

But you have fair quality silage. You could feed 1kg/hd/day. Ration should be better value this year.

"Middling" or "Average" silage alone won't be any good for a weanling over the winter, what's average say 11/12% P, when they need an average of maybe 15/16% to meet their daily requirements.. Animals not getting enough P won't grow.. Yes there is compensatory growth but that's why meal should be cut back for 6-8 weeks before turnout, that 6-8 weeks is gained anyway in the compensatory growth very quickly after turnout so you may as well save the spend..

But in answer to cavanjack, running weanlings on average silage alone over a whole winter of maybe 4-5 months will result in animals missing growth potential..

I absolutely agree with your comment on making excellent silage, it pays back in in saved meal feeding..

Welding Rod

charolais0153 wrote: »

tanko wrote: »

Anyone got an opinion on the following ration

Crude protein 15%, crude fibre 9.69%, crude oil + fat 2.5%, crude ash 6.1%,
moisture 15%, sodium 0.3%, magnesium ??? %

Composition
Rolled barley, maize gluten feed, rolled beans, beet pulp nuts, soya hulls, EU rapeseed meal, flaked maize, dried distillers grain, cane molasses, magnesium oxide, calcium carbonate, sodium chloride, mondicalcium phosphate,
Vitamins A, D3 and E.

Trace elements
Iodine, cobalt, copper, manganese, zinc and selenium.

Too low protein

Plus protein is from soya hulls.
Not nearly as efficient for the animal to use as soya meal. A lot of the protein from hulls passes through the animal and into the tank!!

Bass Reeves

Welding Rod wrote: »

charolais0153 wrote: »

tanko wrote: »

Anyone got an opinion on the following ration

Crude protein 15%, crude fibre 9.69%, crude oil + fat 2.5%, crude ash 6.1%,
moisture 15%, sodium 0.3%, magnesium ??? %

Composition
Rolled barley, maize gluten feed, rolled beans, beet pulp nuts, soya hulls, EU rapeseed meal, flaked maize, dried distillers grain, cane molasses, magnesium oxide, calcium carbonate, sodium chloride, mondicalcium phosphate,
Vitamins A, D3 and E.

Trace elements
Iodine, cobalt, copper, manganese, zinc and selenium.

Too low protein

Plus protein is from soya hulls.
Not nearly as efficient for the animal to use as soya meal. A lot of the protein from hulls passes through the animal and into the tank!!

No protein in soyanhulls same P as barley . This year very similar feed value between barley and hulls due to poor quality of abarley this year. Hulls are a digestible fibre and about the only fibre you can feed at very high the rates. Not much of it ends in slurry tank.

As mixes go it is not too bad. A lot would depend on price of ration. P is provided by Ggluten, beans distillers and rapeseed meal. A lot of fibre in it from pulp and hulls but considering quality of barley I would love with it. However in reality usually no need to feed a fibre at low rates to weanlings but this year I would be happy enough to see pulp and hulls in a ration as long as it was reflected in the price

tanko

That's a Drummonds ration, local Co-op has it for €240/tonne.

Welding Rod

tanko wrote: »

That's a Drummonds ration, local Co-op has it for €240/tonne.

Can't upload a picture of ingredients in my Dairy Folloower ration. It's Liffey Mills stuff @ €260 ton in small bags.
Ingredients are in order, rolled barley, wheat distillers pellets, maize gluten, soya bean meal, soya bean hulls, sugar cane molasses, flaked maize and minerals.

First year using it and rep made big deal out of fact it has soya meal as primary protein source and its 19%.

I'm feeding second cut middling silage plus 3kg of the meal. Stock are doing very good to my eyes at least. I'll weigh them over the Christmas to get accurate measurements.
By middle January they will get better quality first cut silage and I'll cut out the meal completely by first Feb.

freedominacup

Welding Rod wrote: »

Can't upload a picture of ingredients in my Dairy Folloower ration. It's Liffey Mills stuff @ €260 ton in small bags.
Ingredients are in order, rolled barley, wheat distillers pellets, maize gluten, soya bean meal, soya bean hulls, sugar cane molasses, flaked maize and minerals.

First year using it and rep made big deal out of fact it has soya meal as primary protein source and its 19%.

I'm feeding second cut middling silage plus 3kg of the meal. Stock are doing very good to my eyes at least. I'll weigh them over the Christmas to get accurate measurements.
By middle January they will get better quality first cut silage and I'll cut out the meal completely by first Feb.

The rep was talking through his arse. The main pr source by ingredients listed is the wheat distillers pellets. Probably around 25% pr in that. It's not a bad mix though after saying all that.

Cavanjack

Muckit wrote: »

Nothing wrong with it at all. It actually makes more sense than feeding heavy with meal. Compensatory growth will beat any day in the shed feeding meal hands down. Yes you have a heavier weanling at the end of the winter, but the lads that weren't fed will quickly catch up with their fed comrades before the end of the following summer. This isn't just sh*t I'm spouting. Numerous Teagasc trials done on it.

IF a lad had excellent silage (>70DMD), he would get it hard to justify giving more than 0.5 kg/hd/day of meal and see a return. It's so important to make good quality silage.

But you have fair quality silage. You could feed 1kg/hd/day. Ration should be better value this year.

Had two pens of continental weanlings weighing 350 at housing last winter that got no meal. Meant to start them on it but between one thing or another I never got round to it and then it was gone too late so I just left it.
They did go back a bit over the winter but had mixed results with them over the summer.
Weighed them 6 weeks ago at housing. Heaviest weighed 620 back to 480. Some gained 200 over the grazing season m, some 120.
The lads that weighed well we're all golden charlaois. So maybe it depends on the animal.

Bass Reeves

freedominacup wrote: »

Welding Rod wrote: »

Can't upload a picture of ingredients in my Dairy Folloower ration. It's Liffey Mills stuff @ €260 ton in small bags.
Ingredients are in order, rolled barley, wheat distillers pellets, maize gluten, soya bean meal, soya bean hulls, sugar cane molasses, flaked maize and minerals.

First year using it and rep made big deal out of fact it has soya meal as primary protein source and its 19%.

I'm feeding second cut middling silage plus 3kg of the meal. Stock are doing very good to my eyes at least. I'll weigh them over the Christmas to get accurate measurements.
By middle January they will get better quality first cut silage and I'll cut out the meal completely by first Feb.

The rep was talking through his arse. The main pr source by ingredients listed is the wheat distillers pellets. Probably around 25% pr in that. It's not a bad mix though after saying all that.

There is two P sources ahead of soya bean meal. Main energy source is barley can be ok-very poor quality this year. If the barley is good it is a good mix of its poor quality it average enough ration. You know if it's a ration by the amount of flour in the rolled barley. It should be around 50% barley at a rough guess and maybe more if any bit of SB meal in it.. for a ration in small bags price is okish.

If you are feeding 3kg/head to weanlings unless it pure muck they have to be thriving. I am slow to feed much with a kg/head over the winter to weanlings. Main aim is to have them out as early as possible.

Farrell

Welding Rod wrote: »

I buy dairy follower ration. 20% protein with soya as the protein source.
I feed it to bulls and heifers. Great to grow frame. Grass men are looking for frame. They aren't keen on paying for flesh out of sheds which falls off the cattle in the first 3 weeks at grass. They pay for frame and discount the flesh.

I'm feeding some weanling heifers the Lakeland option 21%P.
Was giving it to some bull calves & was told not to give dairy but to Bulls as it can cause urine issue, so giving them calf grower instead

Muckit

Cavanjack wrote: »

Had two pens of continental weanlings weighing 350 at housing last winter that got no meal. Meant to start them on it but between one thing or another I never got round to it and then it was gone too late so I just left it.
They did go back a bit over the winter but had mixed results with them over the summer.
Weighed them 6 weeks ago at housing. Heaviest weighed 620 back to 480. Some gained 200 over the grazing season m, some 120.
The lads that weighed well we're all golden charlaois. So maybe it depends on the animal.

Are you saying you had a weanling housed last autumn at 350kg that was 480kg the following autumn? Or was 350 the average weight of the group? You wouldn't need a scales to see that animal wasn't doing the biz.

Anyways, you'd want to have had a similar pen of stock that you did meal over winter that you could compare those weights to.

valtra2

I am feeding arable silage of barley and grass and a 20% ration with soya meal the main protein source. They are a bit to much energy in it with all the barley but I sell them going to grass so need good weights next April. Was trying to feed straight soya but it's not very palatable and would have to mix with molasses and that is more work and time.

Cavanjack

Muckit wrote: »

Are you saying you had a weanling housed last autumn at 350kg that was 480kg the following autumn? Or was 350 the average weight of the group? You wouldn't need a scales to see that animal wasn't doing the biz.

Anyways, you'd want to have had a similar pen of stock that you did meal over winter that you could compare those weights to.

They averaged 350 when they were housed as weanlings. This Autumn the lightest of them were 480.

_Brian

Cavanjack wrote: »

They averaged 350 when they were housed as weanlings. This Autumn the lightest of them were 480.

Nov 15 ours averaged 270kg, lightest when sold this Nov was 430, heaviest was 520kg..

PMU

jd06 wrote: »

That's the print out. What do ye think

" flacked maise" . someone cannot spell. post no.6