Category D write off

recyclebin

My girlfriend was looking at buying a 131 Mondeo from her local dealer. Her family have been buying all there cars from him and being doing business with him for years, long before I came on the scene.

The guy is a small rural dealer. He imports a lot of Fords from the UK. They had agreed a price on the car and she was trading in her Focus for the 131 Mondeo. I advised her to check the car out and make sure it was legit.

It turns out the car was a Category D write off. The dealer never mentioned this. It also turns out her Focus was a category D write off. Again the same dealer never mentioned this when she bought the Focus off him a few years ago.

To make matters worse my girlfriends father also bought a Mondeo off him a couple of months ago and they have checked that car now as well and that is also Category D write off. They were all bought at around market value too!

My girlfriend rang up her insurance company and they told she would not be covered in the event of a crash and that it needs looked at by an independent inspector. So my girlfriend and her father have been paying insurance for years and probably would not have been covered in the event of a crash.

What should we do? Both cars are now worth a lot less if they try to sell them or trade them in elsewhere.

mickdw

I don't think you are correct re a cat d needing a report to put back on the road. The country is full of them as you have now found out.
Cat d is the least serious category of damage. C and D being allowed on the road again. A and B not.
A Cat d should be worth about 75 percent market value.
To be honest, an awful lot of these car dealers are buying nothing but high milers and cat d cars. They are not buying genuine stuff as no money in that.
You can check the uk reg for free too against mot tests. Should be a useful check of the recorded mileage on the 3 cars your mention.

anewme

recyclebin wrote: »

My girlfriend was looking at buying a 131 Mondeo from her local dealer. Her family have been buying all there cars from him and being doing business with him for years, long before I came on the scene.

The guy is a small rural dealer. He imports a lot of Fords from the UK. They had agreed a price on the car and she was trading in her Focus for the 131 Mondeo. I advised her to check the car out and make sure it was legit.

It turns out the car was a Category D write off. The dealer never mentioned this. It also turns out her Focus was a category D write off. Again the same dealer never mentioned this when she bought the Focus off him a few years ago.

To make matters worse my girlfriends father also bought a Mondeo off him a couple of months ago and they have checked that car now as well and that is also Category D write off. They were all bought at around market value too!

My girlfriend rang up her insurance company and they told she would not be covered in the event of a crash and that it needs looked at by an independent inspector. So my girlfriend and her father have been paying insurance for years and probably would not have been covered in the event of a crash.

What should we do? Both cars are now worth a lot less if they try to sell them or trade them in elsewhere.

So They are all Fords. Is he an authorised Ford dealership?

What has the dealer said about this?

punisher5112

Don't buy there again simple.

Go get in UK and save the extra few quid getting better spec and then arrive at showroom with abnice wave.

Anyone not checking history is mad.

recyclebin

mickdw wrote: »

I don't think you are correct re a cat d needing a report to put back on the road. The country is full of them as you have now found out.
Cat d is the least serious category of damage. C and D being allowed on the road again. A and B not.
A Cat d should be worth about 75 percent market value.
To be honest, an awful lot of these car dealers are buying nothing but high milers and cat d cars. They are not buying genuine stuff as no money in that.
You can check the uk reg for free too against mot tests. Should be a useful check of the recorded mileage on the 3 cars your mention.

Yes, you are correct in saying that you don't need a report to put them on the road. It more of an insurance issue. In the event of a crash the insurance company might only payout for third party at best. It's an easy get out clause for the insurer.

Atlantic Dawn

Sounds like he is simply selling to suckers who do zero history checks on cars, that's why the problem is rampant in this country people not willing to bankroll a €20 history check on the purchase of a €10k car, the mind boggles.

recyclebin

anewme wrote: »

So They are all Fords. Is he an authorised Ford dealership?

What has the dealer said about this?

He is not an authorised Ford dealer. Just seems to specialise in selling them.

My girlfriend hasn't mentioned to dealer that she knows all the cars were write offs. She just told him she didn't want the Mondeo as it had shown up as been written off. The dealer then went all coy and said he was going to tell them 'it had a bit of a scratch'.

punisher5112

Cat d is usually only miner I have had plenty and seen worse of course.

If priced right in no way let it put you off.

Could be a door and paint or car was stolen etc. And recovered sobmany variables.

recyclebin

I guess the fact that they had been dealing with him for years and trusted him is why they didn't check previous cars out .

They would have been dealing with him long before it was easy check the car history on the web for €20.

recyclebin

I know Category D could be very minor but it would be hard to see why insurance company would write off a 3 year old Mondeo for something that could be easily fixed.

My girlfriend and her father would not know a lot about cars and they may have not even checked this one had I not told her to check it out before buying it.

Atlantic Dawn

On a positive note they will have little or no problem selling them on to some sucker who won't be willing to bankroll the €20 for a history check.

colm_mcm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

On a positive note they will have little or no problem selling them on to some sucker who won't be willing to bankroll the €20 for a history check.

Yep. Which means a cat d isn't actually worth 25% less in Ireland!

recyclebin

This dealer is very rural, out in the wild wild west coast of Ireland. If word were to get around then all the locals would go elsewhere. Think that might be a bargaining tool if i was go to talk to him.

Atlantic Dawn

recyclebin wrote: »

This dealer is very rural, out in the wild wild west coast of Ireland. If word were to get around then all the locals would go elsewhere. Think that might be a bargaining tool if i was go to talk to him.

Him not informing people about the previous crash history of the vehicles means he's basically a gangster, clearly he is actively targetting these crashed cars to flog them on at maximum profit.

recyclebin

I think he would deal a lot in cash too for a lot of the smaller jobs like servicing the car. Revenue might be interested too!

I'll talk nicely to him first and give him the opportunity to buy the car back first. See what he says.

CiniO

recyclebin wrote: »

My girlfriend rang up her insurance company and they told she would not be covered in the event of a crash and that it needs looked at by an independent inspector. So my girlfriend and her father have been paying insurance for years and probably would not have been covered in the event of a crash.

I'd call that bullsh1t...
While insurers are guilty of plenty of nasty stuff here in Ireland, I don't think they have a power to get out of the claim, just based on fact that vehicle was cat. D write off in UK.

Skommando

does it cost more to get a category d insured every year, i.e. higher premiums every year , or does it just need a once off engineers cert and then the insurance is much the same price as any other car ?

Donal55

recyclebin wrote: »

I think he would deal a lot in cash too for a lot of the smaller jobs like servicing the car. Revenue might be interested too!

I'll talk nicely to him first and give him the opportunity to buy the car back first. See what he says.

Did you get your car serviced there?

recyclebin

CiniO wrote: »

I'd call that bullsh1t...
While insurers are guilty of plenty of nasty stuff here in Ireland, I don't think they have a power to get out of the claim, just based on fact that vehicle was cat. D write off in UK.

I'm only relaying information that she got when she rang AXA and asked them. They told her she might not be covered in case of a claim.

recyclebin

Donal55 wrote: »

Did you get your car serviced there?

No, I service my own car.

I don't know the dealer and have not met him yet and live a good bit away from him.

Walter2016

recyclebin wrote: »

I know Category D could be very minor but it would be hard to see why insurance company would write off a 3 year old Mondeo for something that could be easily fixed.

My girlfriend and her father would not know a lot about cars and they may have not even checked this one had I not told her to check it out before buying it.

You need to understand how insurance companies work.

Cost of repair incl towing from accident + rental of car for time off road + cost of repair to factory finish - if that total comes to a certain % of trade value, they cut their losses and sell it to the trade.

It could be as simple as a small side slide accident that damages 2 doors and a front panel, bumper and lights.

Say value of car is £15k, cost of repair £4k, other costs incl rental £2k. Garage willing to pay 10k "as is", insurance company sells as its best value option.

Garage repairs at trade price, sells on at a profit.

ejabrod

A Cat D can be anything from a stolen recovered (absolutely no damage ) to a damaged door/bumper/skirt etc which would cost more than the insurance company determine it is wort to repair that is economically viable (for the insurance company) and therefore write it off (economically).

To those on this thread that are shouting that the dealer is a ganster appear to have very little knowledge in this area.

The dealer *should* inform the buyer, if/when asked if the car is in a state (cat a/b/c/d) but it really is up to the buyer to ask the question) the dealer has to inform the buyer (this coming from a person who had had an expensive high powered Cat D)

Skommando

ejabrod wrote: »

The dealer *should* inform the buyer, if/when asked if the car is in a state (cat a/b/c/d) but it really is up to the buyer to ask the question) teh dealer has to inform the buyer (this coming from a person who had had an expensive high powered Cat D)

This isn't correct, it's not a private sale, dealers are legally not supposed to pass off previously damaged cars as undamaged.
If they know it's a former category D they are obliged to inform their customer.

Books4you

recyclebin wrote:

This dealer is very rural, out in the wild wild west coast of Ireland. If word were to get around then all the locals would go elsewhere. Think that might be a bargaining tool if i was go to talk to him.

recyclebin wrote:

I think he would deal a lot in cash too for a lot of the smaller jobs like servicing the car. Revenue might be interested too!

recyclebin wrote:

I'll talk nicely to him first and give him the opportunity to buy the car back first. See what he says.

Who's the gangster now! Shake down is it? Maybe you should stop and think for a second before you go and destroy someone's livelihood and reputation. Revenue? Christ!

Honestly, I have no faith in people anymore. Will probably see it on Facebook tomorrow and the man will be getting abuse without his side every being told.

I have nothing to do with selling cars but these posts drive me up the wall.

recyclebin

Yeah, I understand that. It's more the fact that the resale value will take a big when she goes to a proper dealer to trade in the Focus.

I'm not sure if she asked if the car had any history when she bought it and the dealer definitely didn't mention it.

Some say you have to ask, others will say the dealer must tell you either way.

recyclebin

Books4you wrote: »

Who's the gangster now! Shake down is it? Maybe you should stop and think for a second before you go and destroy someone's livelihood and reputation. Revenue? Christ!

Honestly, I have no faith in people anymore. Will probably see it on Facebook tomorrow and the man will be getting abuse without his side every being told.

I have nothing to do with selling cars but these posts drive me up the wall.

My girlfriend has been ripped off and will be down a few grand that she can't afford to be down. This lad has been getting away with it for years. If you were being ripped off you wouldn't take it lying down, would you? Maybe I wouldn't go to Revenue, I just saw it in on another thread here. What do we do if the dealer tells us f off when we go to him?

artanevilla

recyclebin wrote: »

This dealer is very rural, out in the wild wild west coast of Ireland. If word were to get around then all the locals would go elsewhere. Think that might be a bargaining tool if i was go to talk to him.

Blackmail you mean?

Atlantic Dawn

Books4you wrote: »

Who's the gangster now! Shake down is it? Maybe you should stop and think for a second before you go and destroy someone's livelihood and reputation. Revenue? Christ!

Honestly, I have no faith in people anymore. Will probably see it on Facebook tomorrow and the man will be getting abuse without his side every being told.

I have nothing to do with selling cars but these posts drive me up the wall.

So you think it's accidental that every single car OP can see the seller being involved in selling is Cat D? Clearly it's his business model and not informing people is how he rips them off. What side of his story would he have to tell, does he think people would believe that a professional seller would somehow fall for buying all Cat D writeoffs accidentally, seriously?

recyclebin

artanevilla wrote: »

Blackmail you mean?

How is it blackmail? I would just be informing people of what he has been up to, show them the motor checks to prove it and then let them make up there own minds.

If he was a legit business he would not have anything to worry about.

pablo128

The issue with her insurance company is not so much the fact it is a cat D, but the fact she didn't tell them. But how would she know if the dealer didn't tell her? Therefore the dealer is jeopardising her insurance.

I'd be getting the uk reg off the logbook and checking its mot history, particularly the mileage at this stage.

anewme

Seems to be a bit if a pattern allright. Would make me wonder too if he's doing this all the time how no one else has copped it?

If you are paying market value for a car then why not just go to main dealer?

mickdw

anewme wrote: »

Seems to be a bit if a pattern allright. Would make me wonder too if he's doing this all the time how no one else has copped it?

If you are paying market value for a car then why not just go to main dealer?

I guessed who the dealer was and recycle bin confirmed it. He is one of these dealers based in middle of small rural community and he is a little god there.

anewme

Ah right, cos I was going to say if he's a main dealer for any marque of cars (not just Ford) that the op should contact that manufacturer as he's representing their name.

Walter2016

recyclebin wrote: »

How is it blackmail? I would just be informing people of what he has been up to, show them the motor checks to prove it and then let them make up there own minds.

If he was a legit business he would not have anything to worry about.

I'd be very very very careful about publicly saying anything. Defamation laws here changed recently and it would be so easy for dealer to sue you

Aside from any award, legal costs would be north of 10k.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with category D write offs. The sensationalist catastrophe syndrome types will always mouth off, but usually not knowing what they are talking about.

Call centre person in axa just said "possible" and when you check into it, all they need in a worse case scenario is an engineer to say that the vehicle is roadworthy.

As for lower value - maybe a little, but nowhere near 25% - that's just more catastrophe syndrome nonsense.

recyclebin

From what mick has told me about him, he is also into selling clocked cars. Suing for defamation would be the least of his worries.

jcd5971

artanevilla wrote:

Blackmail you mean?

More like consequences for some shoddy practices here.

I can't understand why people are jumping at the op.

If I'm reading this right the dealer is selling crashed cars at FULL price and not declaring to customers, I find that reprehensible