Latin dispensations

pinkypinky

A good suggestion by KildareFan to put all Latin translations here (not of names but sentences on parish registers relating to dispensations, impediments, etc).

Here is one from the marriage of Alice Lacey/John Butler.

dispensatione ab impedimento disparitatis cultus a S. sede JB [the inititials of the celebrant]

A loose translation is dispensation from the impediment of disparity of cult by the Holy See [i.e. the Vatican] - see application for dispensation here http://ossory.ie/2010/10/application-for-dispensation-from-the-impediment-of-disparity-of-cult/

The disparity of cult marriage is between a baptised catholic and non baptised person - e.g. jewish.

L1011

Link to diocese is broken

pjproby

Any idea what 'cordem loco' might mean on a marriage registration. His home address was given, hers was 'cordem loco'.

KildareFan

Can you post a link to the page? Loco means place, cordem means heart...

KildareFan

Here's a list of latin terms - not exhaustive [culled from various sources!]
Latin term/ English Translation/ Abbr
ætatis age at
afinitatus related through an earlier marriage of the two families
altera die on the next day
anno aetatis suae died in the year of his age, e.g.., a.a.s. 24 aas
anno domini in the year of the Lord
anno incarnationis in the year (since/of) the incarnation of the Lord
anno regni year of reign ar
annus bissextus leap year
ante meridiem before noon (a.m.) a.m.
atque (variant of "ac") and, and also atq.
banni, proclamentiones marriage banns
baptisatus christened
Baptisavi Michaeli, filium legitimum Patricus Daly et Ellena Mahony de Courtmacsherry. Sponsoribus Johannes Doyle, Marian Shea. I baptised Michael, legitimate son of Patrick Daly and Ellen Driscoll of Courtmacsherry. Godparents John Doyle and Mary Shea.
biduum space of two days, two-day period
circa about, approximately c
civitas city civit
cognomen surname
comitis count c
Confirmati confirmed Ch
consanguinati blood related
cras tomorrow
decessit sine prole died without issue (children)[2] dsp
decessit sine prole legitima died without legitimate issue (children)[2] dspl
decessit sine prole mascula died without male issue (sons)[2] dspm
decessit sine prole mascula legitima died without legitimate male issue (sons) dspml
decessit sine prole mascula superstite died without surviving male issue (living sons)[2] dspms
decessit sine prole superstite died without surviving issue (living children)[2] dsps
decessit sine prole virilli died without male issue (sons)[2] dspv
decessit vita matris died in the lifetime of the mother dvm
decessit vita patris died in the lifetime of the father dvp
Defuncti died +
die sequenti on the following day
die vero this very day
disparati cultus disparity of cult
Dispentatis ab impedimente Dispensation from impediment
Dispentatis ab impedimente disparati cultus a S. Sede Dispensation from impediment of disparity of cult by Holy See
dominica, dies dominuca, dominicus, dies Solis, feria prima Sunday
ejusdem die of the same day
eo tempore at this time
eodem loco same place
eodem anno in the same year
eodem die on the same day
eodem mense in the same month
et cætera and also &c
feria quarta, dies Mercurii Wednesday
feria quinta, dies Jovis Thursday
feria secunda, dies Lunae Monday
feria septima, sabbatum, dies sabbatinus, dies Saturni Saturday
feria sexta, dies Veneris Friday
feria tertia, dies Martis Tuesday
filia daughter
filium/us son
hodie today
In matrimonium conjunxi sunt Cornelius Crowley et Honoria Hayes, de Garranes. Testimonium: Thaddeus Buckley, Brigidam Lorigan. Cornelius Crowley and Nora Hayes of Garranes were joined in matrimony. Witnesses Tim Buckley and Bridget Lorigan.
in secundus grado first cousins
in tertius grado second cousins
legitimum legitimate
longo tempore for a long time
mane in the morning
maritus, conjux husband
Mater Mother
Matrimonis Juncti joined in marriage J
matrimonium, copulatio, copulati, conjuncti marriage
meridie noon
mortuus sine prole died without offspring (children)[3] msp
natus birth
natus or nata born[1] na
nocte at night
nomen firstname
nudius tertius three days earlier
nunc dies tertius three days earlier
nunc temporis of the present time
obiit died, followed by the date[4] ob
obiit (or obit) sine prole died without issue (children)[4] osp or ob.s.p.
parentes parents
Pater Father
perendie day after tomorrow
pomerid after noon (p.m.) p.m.
post meridiem after noon (p.m.) p.m.
postridie on the day after, a day later
pridie the day before
Prima vice Communicates first communion P
pro tempore for (at) the time
quondam deceased, the late q.
S Sede Holy See
Sanctus Sede Holy See
sine legitima prole died without legitimate issue (children)[5] slp
sine mascula prole died without male issue (sons)[5] smp
sine prole without issue (children)[5] sp
sine prole legitima died without legitimate issue (children)[5] spl
sine prole mascula died without male issue (sons)[5] spm
sine prole superstite without surviving issue (children)[5] sps
sponsores/sponsoribus godparents sp/ss
susceptores sponsors (godparents) sp/ss
testimonium witnesses
triduum space of three days, three-day period
tunc temporis of former time
uxor, marita, conjux wife
vespere in the evening

pedroeibar1

Possibly the best source for help on Latin is the Familysearch page here . It has details on sentence construction and a list of words/abbreviations at the end of the page.

pedroeibar1

pjproby wrote: »

Any idea what 'cordem loco' might mean on a marriage registration. His home address was given, hers was 'cordem loco'.

The word possibly is eadem not cordem. (Eadem = the same, Loco = place).

KildareFan

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

The word possibly is eadem not cordem. (Eadem = the same, Loco = place).

yes - eodem loco means same place. I've inserted the term in my list above.

pjproby

KildareFan and pedroeibar1
Apologies for not replying-I completely forgot that I asked for an explanation.
Here is the link

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Pembroke_East___Donnybrook/Fitzwilliam_Quay/1284986/

pjproby

KildareFan and pedroeibar1
Apologies for not replying-I completely forgot that I asked for an explanation.
Here is the link

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/0945340011476

pedroeibar1

pjproby wrote: »

KildareFan and pedroeibar1
Apologies for not replying-I completely forgot that I asked for an explanation.
Here is the link

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/0945340011476

It is ‘eodem loco’ – meaning she also is from Harold’s Cross. (first entry on RHS.)
Ricardus Bennett de Harold’s Cross filius Patricii et uxori ejus Anna, et Maria Fitzmaurice de eodem loco, filia Edwardii et uxori ejus Julia ; Testibus Patricio Doyle et Brigida Smyth
Or
Richard Bennett of Harold’s Cross son of Patrick and his wife Anna, and Maria Fitzmaurice of the same place, daughter of Edward and his wife Julia ; Witnesses Patrick Doyle and Brigid Smyth.

pjproby

pedroeibar1 -That's a mystery finally resolved. Thank you.

Is her name Fitzmaurice or Fitzsimmons?

pjproby

pedroeibar1 -That's a mystery finally resolved. Thank you.

Is her name Fitzmaurice or Fitzsimmons?

pedroeibar1

pjproby wrote: »

pedroeibar1 -That's a mystery finally resolved. Thank you.

Is her name Fitzmaurice or Fitzsimmons?

Fitzsimmons - a duh! moment, I'd been reading about a Fitzmaurice and a Fitzgibbon earlier, Freudian slip.

pjproby

Thanks again-that would have set off a whole new chain of events!

montgo

On this baptism record on 17 June 1878, what is the comment in Latin (?) following the note on margin re Fogarty/William's marriage to Forde on Feb 24 1925.

spurious

Whatever it is, the same thing is written a couple of lines up and also closer to the bottom of the page.
It looks like 'vidi ne temere register'.

Was there a register kept of 'mixed' marriages?

montgo

Thanks, spurious.

I don't know of any register for mixed marriages.
I believe both Fogarty & Forde were RC.

tabbey

spurious wrote: »

Whatever it is, the same thing is written a couple of lines up and also closer to the bottom of the page.
It looks like 'vidi ne temere register'.

Was there a register kept of 'mixed' marriages?

This would make sense, as Fogarty would generally suggest RC gene pool, while Ford is more associated with non RC.

montgo

C. Forde was baptised RC and all her family are showing as RC on the Censu. Her father was married in Catholic church but I haven't yet researched further back as the RC parish records are only available from 1840s.

Many thanks

KildareFan

just checked on what Ne Temere means - 'not rashly/blindly' - the first two words of what became known as the Ne Temere decree published in 1908 which regulated marriages between Roman Catholics and other religions. The non catholic party had to sign an agreement that the children of the marriage would be brought up Roman Catholic,

The word "vidi" means "I saw" so I would translate the note as 'I saw the Ne Temere register' which implies there is a list of people married under the Ne Temere regulations - maybe the priests kept a register to check up on them?

I am speculating that the priest checked the 1878 baptisms to ensure that the two parties to the marriage were baptised catholic...

montgo

Ah, that might explain the comment. Many thks.

Peregrinus

We remember the Ne Temere decree nowadays because of its strictures against mixed marriages, but in fact it dealt with a number of topics, one of them being the undesirability of secret marriages or clandestine marriages and to avoid these it adopted a rule, or rather reinforced and extended an existing rule, to the effect that Catholics, to be validly married, must be married in canonical form in the presence of at least two witnesses. The decree also required the keeping of a register of marriages, and the entry in registers of baptism of the later marriage of a baptised person.

The words "ne temere" are actually the opening words of this section of the decree - lest people rashly marry in secret, we're adopting this rule requiring marriage to be public. Nothing to do with mixed marriages.

So I suspect the Ne Temere register was simply the register of marriages which the Ne Temere decree required each parish to keep. It's not a register of mixed marriages specifically; it's a register of all marriages celebrated in the parish. What this notation means is that the marriage of William Fogarty, noted in the Register of Baptism, is recorded in full in the Register of Marriages for the same Parish, indicating that William was married in the Parish in which he was baptised. Indicating that he probably married a local girl, since it was normal to marry in the bride's home parish.

montgo

Many thanks for further explanation.

William was baptised in Glanworth, however he married in Ballylanders in 1925 where his wife lived.

pinkypinky

Question on Latin dispensations please:

Marriage from 1908 in Harrington St parish in Dublin on the usual proforma book. The people of interest are Michael Bradley/Mary Lawless.

The dispensations column has either "disp" or what looks like the number 3 in most cases.


Any thoughts on what this means?

Aineoil

pinkypinky wrote: »

Question on Latin dispensations please:

Marriage from 1908 in Harrington St parish in Dublin on the usual proforma book. The people of interest are Michael Bradley/Mary Lawless.

The dispensations column has either "disp" or what looks like the number 3 in most cases.


Any thoughts on what this means?

Maybe it's a dispensation because of of consanguinity (marriage between 2nd
cousins). I don't know to be honest.

pedroeibar1

pinkypinky wrote: »

Question on Latin dispensations please:

Marriage from 1908 in Harrington St parish in Dublin on the usual proforma book. The people of interest are Michael Bradley/Mary Lawless.

The dispensations column has either "disp" or what looks like the number 3 in most cases.


Any thoughts on what this means?

It’s a Latin shorthand /shortcuts. At the header of the column is the word denuntiationes (a). The full expression is ‘factis tribus denunciationibus’ meaning ‘three marriage banns having been published
The ‘a’ reference is on the bottom of the page, Si dispensitum ferrit, notater et a quo., meaning ‘If a dispensation is made, note it, and by whom.’

Peregrinus

Which suggests that, where "disp." appears, it means that the couple obtained a dispensation from the requirement to publish the banns.

The basic idea was that banns of marriage (announcements about forthcoming marriages) were read out in church on three successive weeks before the marriage was celebrated. The point was to prevent secret marriages, bigamy, etc; the community was put on notice that Jack and Mary were going to marry, and if anybody thought that, e.g., Jack was already married to Annie, they could raise an objection and the matter could be looked into.

You could avoid this by obtaining a marriage licence from the bishop - you satisfy the bishop with sworn declarations and supporting paperwork that you are both free to marry, and he issues a marriage licence, plus a dispensation from the requirement to publish the banns. You had to pay a fee for this. In time a class distinction arose - if you were but a humble proletarian you had your banns published; if you had pretensions to middle-class respectability you paid for a licence and dispensation.

Hence the entry in the marriage register showing whether banns were published or a dispensation was issued may give some clue as to the social status, or at least social pretensions, of the couples concerned.

pinkypinky

Thanks for that detailed explanation. I was aware of the 3 readings but didn't make the connection here.

leck

I know this is an old thread, I'll move this if there is a more recent thread where I should post.

I'm looking for a translation from Latin for the following which appears as a note on the marriage of Stephen Lyden and Stephen Lyden and Mary Walsh in Clifden in 1897. The following has been transcribed in the Notes field on rootsireland. Anyone know what it means?

"FACULTATIBUS MIHI ARCHREPISCOPO CONCESSIS DISPENSANTUR IN BANNIS - DISPENSATION." by P.L.

Since this is a transcription (no image for this record) the spelling might not be right.

Stephen was a widower at the time of his marriage to Mary Walsh. He was previously married to Anne Keane in 1895 in Clifden. There's a similar note on that marriage on rootsireland

"VI FACULATUM MIHI ARCHREPISCOPO CONCESSARUM DISPENSANTUR IN BANNIS" - DISPENSATION.

Peregrinus

"Through faculties given to me by the Archbishop, they were dispensed from banns."

"By virtue of a faculty given to me by the Archbishop, they were dispensed from banns."

(And, for the honours students, "ARCHREPISCOPO" is misspelt in both transcriptions. It should be "ARCHIEPISCOPO".)

It means that not only did Stephen and Mary (and, previously, Stephen and Anne) get a dispensation from the usual obligation to have banns of marriage published, but they got the dispensation not from the Archbishop, but from the priest who married them, he having been authorised by the Archbishop to give dispensations on the Archbishop's behalf.

leck

Peregrinus wrote: »

... they got the dispensation not from the Archbishop, but from the priest who married them, he having been authorised by the Archbishop to give dispensations on the Archbishop's behalf.

Peregrinus, thank you very much. I see that this particular priest made a habit of this. A search of rootsireland for other marriages around 1897 showed all the others I looked at (abt half dozen) all had the same note.

pedroeibar1

leck wrote: »

"VI FACULATUM MIHI ARCHREPISCOPO CONCESSARUM DISPENSANTUR IN BANNIS" - DISPENSATION.

In addition to what Peregrinus has written and the misspelling, it also is 'dog Latin' as even in the mangled syntax of the above phrase it should be 'Vim'. not 'Vi', as it is the accusative case of 'vis', a third declension noun. The poor old priest probably had memories of a lecture on Martin Luther's 'Non vi, sed verbo' .
PS As I write, Led Zeppelin are on Lyric, bringing me right back tothe era of my Longmans and 'De Bello Gallico' of all those years ago!

Peregrinus

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

In addition to what Peregrinus has written and the misspelling, it also is 'dog Latin' as even in the mangled syntax of the above phrase it should be 'Vim'. not 'Vi', as it is the accusative case of 'vis', a third declension noun. The poor old priest probably had memories of a lecture on Martin Luther's 'Non vi, sed verbo' .
PS As I write, Led Zeppelin are on Lyric, bringing me right back tothe era of my Longmans and 'De Bello Gallico' of all those years ago!

Not accusative, ablative - "by the power of a faculty given to me . . .". I think vi is correct.

pedroeibar1

Peregrinus wrote: »

Not accusative, ablative - "by the power of a faculty given to me . . .". I think vi is correct.

I see where you are coming from and it has merit. However, as the dispensation is facilitated ‘through’ the power granted, I inferred that the correct (dropped) preposition should be ‘per’ which would take the accusative (and not ‘a/ab/ex' and the ablative). Hardly worth arguing about:).

Peregrinus

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

. . . Hardly worth arguing about:).

That consideration has never stopped me.

pinkypinky

Stop being pedantic you two!